DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 40 Ravens 25 Is This a Must Win Game?

Let’s also not forget: the Ravens go to Pittsburgh next week, so one of them will lose. They also play the Rams, Patriots, 49ers, etc. themselves

Lol

This is what u decide to share after yesterday ...

Says way more about who U are than who your mocking ...

One of the most beautiful sights was seeing all the empty seats as we kicked an extra point later in the game. That was a special picture of real beauty worth at least a thousand words IMO. That, and seeing Harbaugh's tortured expression on the sidelines.

I just never seem to get tired od beating a Harbaugh like a drum. I think its is the way they squirm and grimace. I want to do it again this year when we are at full strength. And BM under center for some snaps seemed a good part of the mix.

It's ok. This is the same guy that wants free handouts for his kids because they live in the bay area.

And I don't mind eating crow. And I don't take back what I said. I did not have any confidence at all in these guys. Baker is still insecure and immature. Stop talking and start winning. Keep doing it. One game doesn't change that message.

And Baker still has a long way to go. Yesterday was much more about Freddie than Baker. I'm starting to think we may have underestimated Freddie. I think there's a method to his madness that we may see play out over the long haul.

I think that's not an accurate statement at all. Freddie and the play calling was compounding the Baker struggles in games 1, 2 and 3 ... they were both at fault. In this game vs the Ravens they both improved. Both deserve some credit. It's very much a symbiotic relationship.

I agree .. and I’ll also add that the Ravens D was ripe for the picking. Their secondary is by far the worst one we’ve seen ... and they put ALL of their effort into stopping OBJ ... so we had easy pickings to basically everything else we did

Not sure I agree. I think the two are pretty much wrapped around each other like DNA..

Freddie called, what appeared to be, a better game.. Baker hung in the pocket and made short throws to move the chains and stay on the field.. this allowed us to open things up and run the triple reverse pass and the handoff to Juice to run the option and things like that.. Baker even took off running once, it wasn't very effective, but at least he showed he was willing to do it.

Overall I think what we are seeing is the coming together of the Monken offense, the Freddie play calling, and Baker producing... all getting more comfortable in the system and what is working and what isn't... and how it can be adapted to a specific game plan every week. The next phase is defenses are going to figure out what's working and try to take it away.. Monken and Freddie have to be able to anticipate that and game plan around it..

Not to be argumentative, but cfrs posted a stat about our personnel packages on the Offensive Scheme thread. In the first 3 games, we ran 12 Personnel a total of 24 times. We matched that total in yesterday's game. That is a schematic adjustment.

Also, Trent Green brought up how Freddie really wanted to emphasize getting the ball out of Baker's hand quicker yesterday. For the most part, that was accomplished. I think this is also a schematic adjustment.

The above is not a knock on anyone. I just think Freddie deserves some credit for making adjustments.

I don’t think you guys are “hearing” what he’s typing .. *L* ... its so hard to communicate on here ....

I think i may know where he’s headed with this .... but i’ve been wrong before ... more than once ... *L* .... so I’ll let him explain ...

RISH

I know u gots some thick skin brother .... you’ve went a few rounds with me before and neither of us has a weak chin .... *LOL* ...

Freddie took steps last game as far as play calling went and bake getting the ball out of his hands quicker ... yesterday he added to that and went all in with it if u know what i mean ..

He cut down on his STUPIDNESS quotient also ... against the lambs i wondered if he was letting Hue manage the clock for him ... *L* ... he did 3 or 4 dumb ass things against the lambs (not clock related .. that’s just what the reminded me of) ... this week ... going for two was DUMB AS HELL ... and U (no clue if u will) nor the sashiettes can convince me other wise ...

I think he did one other really dumb thing IMO ... can’t remember it ...

Freddie has his first good day at the office IMO ... lets see if he can heed his own advice and string some good days together ...

It's not a big deal, and I didn't really feel like explaining it because I'm on my phone, but I'll give it a shot.

Freddie ran a physical camp. He stated over and over again to only focus on the next play. He sounded less than happy after both wins this season, including yesterday. He continues to make adjustments weekly. His defensive coordinator continues to draw up brilliant game plans. He doesn't panic and is the same person day in and day out. His team completely out physicaled one of the traditionally most physical teams on their home field when the Browns could have easily rolled over.

My point is maybe he knows what he's doing. Maybe there's a method to his madness. Maybe he's showing us exactly what he said would happen...that if you do the things he asks you to do, then each week you'll be playing better than you were the week before.

Everything he's said has happened so far. I just think we may be witnessing a culture change, and that was why I said it was more about Freddie.

He had to go for two yesterday. It's simple math. Being up 12 or 13 still requires the Ravens to have to score 2 TDs. If your opponent has to score at least 2 TDs to take the lead or tie, you have to take the opportunity to go up by 14 in case they do. Their behavior isn't going to change no matter if you're up 12, 13, or 14.

Ya well .... in football MATH CHANGES a lot ... and there were over 9 minutes left i believe when he did it ...

The fact the math changes means by definition its not simple ... ....

And its not like extra points are automatic anymore ...

In this case IF the math stood the same .... i’d rather force them to make both extra points to beat me rather than have them only need one ...

Key part here being ... IF the math changed ...

Thats the last time i defend U ... *L* ...

Different opinions bro .... i thought it was MORONIC of him .... at least u confirmed your a sashiette ... ...

True, the big difference is that you force them to go for 2 if they want to win vs kicking if they want to play for OT...

Going for 2 didn't bother me at all, I thought it was the right thing to do. What did bother me was the play call and/or the execution.. we weren't even close.

9 minutes left plays a huge role in the equation. That's maybe 2 more possessions each. You have to assume they are going for TDs both times.

And you'll still defend me when you believe I'm right. You're good like that.

Yes, this is still a must win game...

I think coaches get caught up in the "have to go for two" scenarios when they don't need to. The only time you have to go for two is when you need two to tie or take the lead.

Yesterday's game presents a great scenario... we go for two because we're up by twelve and the chart says to go. If we kick the extra point, and score a FG (which we did on our next possession), we're up by 16.

Up by 16 means you CANNOT LOSE with two scores. Failing the 2pt conversion means you can still LOSE with two scores. If you understand math, throw the chart away and go with your gut. If you suck at math, well, better just use the chart lol.

This is absolutely true - big time.

However in an earlier post I am pretty sure you said that most of the credit needed to go to Freddie. . . From where I am sitting, I think Baker also played much better and it was a combination of Freddie's play calling and Baker doing the little things to improve that made the difference. I wouldn't credit one more than the other. I think Baker can be and should be a "great" QB - accurate, decisive and able to read defenses and get the ball to the open receiver ... he didn't do that games 1-3. He was much better at it game 4. I still want to see more.

If you or others are suggesting the improvement was all Freddie - it would seem to imply that Baker's performances in games 1-3 were mostly poor because of the play calling ... and again, while I think that was some of it, I also thought Baker was pretty stinky in addition to the dodgy play calling.

Bottom line - I think they are both improving. If we want to go to the play offs and compete they both need to.

To the poster above talking about how Freddie was not satisfied after the 2 wins - I agree, I do think there is a culture change taking place and I think Freddie knows what the culture needs to be to win. He's not there yet but he took a big step this week and the 40 points and the physicality we played with ... yeah, that's some serious culture change in my eyes.

Anyone else thinking this shtick is old?

Ahh yes .... another one of my favs ... ASSuming .... i’ll take Fate’s ASSumption for all the marbles Alex .... *L* ....

I’ll give u doing it with 9 minutes left is better than when some of the menZas do it like before the half but thats still to much time with all the unknowns ....

Lets leave it at if we were head coaches I’d love to play against u with your going for 2 philosophy ... just as you’d love to play against me cause of mine ...

Dave Ramsey just chimed .... time for a town hall about going to college debt free .... hopefully i’ll learn sumptin ...

I wouldn't rely on Fate's explanation.

It centered around ASSuming we scored another FG.

And I'll add...if it was the first half, I would have disagreed going for 2. Again, time left in the game plays a huge part in this.

You never chase points....Until the fourth quarter.

Actually, it's not, that's just what happened yesterday so I used at as an example. All I'm saying is there is no tried and true chart for what you "must" do. You said he "had to" go for two because we were up 12... I say bullpucky. There are a lot of factors, time of the game is obviously the biggest, flow of the game and the way scoring is trending is a close second.

Watch BB in that scenario, I almost guarantee he takes his free point and turns the other way... Not that he really knows what he's doing.

People get caught up in some crazy "rules" that don't actually exist. There is no predicting what happens in a game with that much time left. Someone else said yesterday that Harbaugh had "no choice" but to go for it on 4th and 3 at his own 30 - 9 minutes left in the game. "If he doesn't try he will lose", or some crazy comment. Yet in another game yesterday 44 points were scored in the 4th quarter. I don't think there was a slide-rule scripting that one with 9 minutes left...

Going for two there was the right call. Tucker wasn't going to miss a convert, we had to make it a 14-point game. I am surprised this is even an issue.

I assumed people figured that being up 12 meant that they could score a TD and 2 FGs to beat us (I think there was still like 9:30 left in the game)

This is where I'm at.

Yet we KNOW its a FACT its not SPECULATION or an ASSumption that we did kick the FG to throw all your ASSumptions out the window ...

AT THE TIME we had no clue how the rest of the game would play out ...

NONE ...

IN THIS CASE kicking the xp was CLEARLY the way to go KNOWING WHAT WE NOW KNOW ...

Yes ... my point is u guys can make all the ABSOLUTES u want ... it doesn’t change the FACT with 9 mins left u have NO CLUE how its going to play out ...

And RiSh and my Canadian friend ...

Your scenario is ASSuming there gonna score two TD’s and were not gonna muster another point ... NEGATIVE NANCY ASSUMPTIONS!!!

Or just for u RiSh .... NEgaiTAVE NAncY AsSomPTanS ...

But that's exactly the way you have to approach it.

It's like playing blackjack. You assume the dealer's hole card is a 10 and you make your decisions based on that to give you the best chance to win.

It's all about giving yourself the best chance to win.

In football what happens is in MY HANDS not left up to an automated card shuffler ...

We just disagree here .... i’m Out ...

Have a good one RiSh ...

IF all of Freddies DUMB ASS DECISIONS turn out like this ... we’ll all be smiling an awful lot ... now .....

LETS GOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo

Lampdogg, its was the right call. Really had the two call all around me. Great job, FK!

For the record, I've never said going for two was the wrong call, I've simply said people make a much bigger deal about it than they need to. And the "they HAVE TO go for two" crowd can pound salt. You don't have to do anything.

Up by 12 is a clear "go for two" on the chart. Statistically though, that option will win you one more game every ten years, at least when that scenario takes place within the final 10 minutes of a game. That's right, making the two point conversion there improves your chances of winning by 0.6%

The NFL talking heads (and fans) go crazy over some pretty silly stuff imo. Think about that 0.6% above and then ponder this...

You're down by 14 points, you score a TD... Do you go for two??

Seems that nobody does. YET, going for two improves your chances of winning the game by 10 percent. Funny to me that everybody looks at you like you're insane if you don't go for two up by 12, yet a decision that carries 16 TIMES the impact is never made in a real game. At least not until BB starts doing it, then it will suddenly be genius... problem is he will have to be down by 14 in an actual game before he reveals his genius lol.

Well, if you are up by 12... and your assumption is that you are going to keep scoring and they aren't... then the decision doesn't matter... you can kick it, you can go for 2, take a knee, doesn't matter. If you are a coach in that situation making those assumptions it is neither a good nor a bad decisions, it's totally irrelevant.

You're one of two fans in here going crazy over it. You've written several essays to that affect. The rest of us are just kind of matter of fact about it.

It's no biggie. The Browns won. That's all that matters.

**this was meant for Fate, not DC.

Harbaugh did and I thought it was a gutsy call. I wasn't aware of the stats but he forced our hand. If he had not gone for 2 (and made it), we would not have gone for 2.. they made it, we didn't. It was a nice swing in their favor. Fortunately, they weren't able to capitalize on it.

I'm glad we won, and made a couple Ravens get in a dispute in their own locker room lol for once it ain't us.

I could be wrong, and theres no source for it. But I think Earl Thomas was playing hurt, as he got beat more than I've ever seen before. And maybe that's why he was mad at Brandon William's for not playing hurt.

I think the adjustments to the scheme are far more interesting on whether or not to go for two. I think that talking about how much this game meant to our season is more interesting, as well.

I am happy w/Freddie for correcting some of the packages and to try to limit the things Baker is weak at.

I also think think this team was walking on the precipice of the season's success or failure. I know that game 4 is too early to put so much importance on a win, but I truly believe we were teetering on staying on solid ground or spiraling out of control.

I'm so happy and thankful the schematic adjustments and how the team rose up and won this extremely important game. I think the season is going to be successful now.

Could not agree more. This wasn't a "must win" because of stats or standings or math.. it was about confidence and the mental attitude and the cohesion of this team going forward...

lmao

I'm going crazy over it??

Nice take bro. I thought it was just an interesting conversation. Sorry I offended you!