DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 3 49ers 31 Postgame Thoughts

I am off the Kitchens train, he is clearly over his head.

You just hope our players stay with it because if they don’t, things will get way worse

Even before Chubb, we could have taken Nelson instead of hospital ward. Another mistake is not going after Mack because of Garrett saying he wanted Ogbah.. hell i would have traded Garrett for Mack

I turned it off before the Half.

Not over-reacting: this team is Fool's Gold.


ONLY by virtue of how soft our schedule is the second half, we're no better than 10-6, more likely 9-7, and probably not a Wild Card team.

I'm just going to say it, the conversation in this thread kinda sucks. I'm gonna try to redirect with some humor and some of what I saw. This is gonna be a long post, and I doubt most people read any of my posts, but I'd love to hear constructive opinions on what I thought I saw.
-I'm also going to focus solely on the first half. The game was pretty much out of control after that, and I don't feel good giving credit or criticism when a game is essentially over.

Long story short... I blame Farmer for the loss last night.
I'm gonna start off with giving credit where credit is due. Shanny stole our dinner, ate it, took a dump on the plate and handed it back to the Browns. I always loved Shanny the playcaller, but I hated Shanny the coach. I didn't think he had the personality/leadership to be an effective coordinator much less HC. Well, his stops in Atlanta and SF are proving me so wrong. I dunno.... maybe guys that are that arrogant really ARE that much smarter than everyone else. Kudos to him. He has a solid-if-unspectacular group of guys playing some amazing football. Jimmy G really hasn't had to do much, and there are far more talented runners and pass-catchers on other teams (like ours), but he just takes it and makes it into a work of art on the field.

I honestly didn't see anyone on our team really stick out as the reason for the loss. Don't get your undies in a bundle, Baker sucked and Freddie sucked, etc... but not any more than I was expecting coming out of training camp, and not enough to be close to being single-handedly responsible for the beatdown.

Baker
-Baker needs to be better. I do think he will be, which is why I may come off as lenient on him. The handful of times they showed WRs downfield, he had guys either wide open or WIDE open. I'm not sure I saw him throw a perfect pass the whole game (on time, on the hands or leading in the right direction to pick up more yards). That's concerning, but I've seen him clean that up (if temporarily) last year. I'm also hoping the dude just needs to spend more time getting acclimated to the playbook and WRs. Talking heads were pointing out numerous times when he had better passing options and/or wasn't reading the field and/or moving the safety. If Freddie wants to run the offense he obviously wants to run (passing the ball all over the field, he's gotta get Baker's head out of his butt).
Lastly, if he's really pulling that college crap with the handshakes, bench the kid. Seriously. When Richard Sherman is lecturing you about respect and acting right (and he's correct) you've got a serious problem. Freddie won't do it because Baker is his meal-ticket, but this kid needs a real hard smack upside the head. Sherman was right, you pull that crap in a pro game and then lay an egg on the field like that? Guy is a joke.

Freddie
I'm debating who should shoulder more blame between Freddie and Baker (my scapegoat is still Farmer). We kept going to the 3WR sets, and literally every time we did that in the first few drives, something bad happened. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to put a TE on Bosa and have the tackle double the guy next to him should seriously rethink if they're cut out for their job. That's just stupid. A couple posters on here have been beating the drum about offensive formations, so it's hard not to notice (even for a noob like me) how they're lining up, and also where the WRs end up. It was either on the Calloway INT drive, or the drive before when we kicked the field goal, Landry and OBJ ran into each other in the endzone (and the ball didn't even go there). You have two guys that literally cannot be covered by their DBs, so you take them out of the play for the defense? No defensive coordinator can say we're NOT a generous bunch.
That said, I saw some adjustments from Freddie towards the end of the first half. We started running some creative plays from our 3WR formations. That quick give to Chubb with OBJ in the backfield was really clever. They were definitely trying to put the ball in OBJ hands in space and let him go to work. The OBJ trick plays were working... say what you want about force-feeding him the ball, but those plays were actually working. It looked to me that Freddie was adjusting well on offense in the first half.

Calloway
It's a good thing I'm not a decision maker for this team. I'm sick and tired of this kid. Make him a gunner and only let him out there on special teams, or make him inactive and let people that actually want to be a pro get a chance. We know, from firsthand experience, you can have all the talent in the world and not be able to do a damn thing if you don't have the attitude.
Comes into camp out of shape, promptly gets suspended. Comes back and his only contribution is LITERALLY GIVING a ball to the defender in the red zone. As I mentioned before, that wasn't a well-thrown ball, but it was catchable and was a sure-fire TD. Then he goes and mopes with his helmet on on the sideline. He's another one that could use a real good smack upside the head. Can't WAIT until Higgins is back.

Chubb
It's decided. I'm buying a Chubb jersey. Guy comes to work and grinds and gets it done each game. He didn't get the yards, but he was up over 5/carry, and that was against a monster Dline. He worked for each and every one of those yards. Lots of times the hole just wasn't there (and many times it was... I'm not bagging on the oline, but giving credit to their dline).

Defense
I thought they did real well. They obviously had some breakdowns and miscues, and that happens, and they definitely weren't going to shut out Shanny's O. They have things to work on, but I can't get too much on their case when the offense only puts up 3 points. 3 points isn't ever going to cut it.

Other WRs
I looked at the stat line after the game. Landry and OBJ had some stats, and Chubb (I think) had a catch and.... that's pretty much it. IIRC, no other WR had a catch. That's insane. A finger needs pointed at someone for that, but I'm not sure who it is.

Hammer
He was busy and did pretty well. He's overdue for some stinker games, I think... but he's been real impressive.


Shanny was our OC, and couldn't handle the Farmer show. If not for Farmer, I doubt he would've quit. Now I dunno if that means he would've stayed (we had at least 1 more reboot between then and now), but the fact remains that we drove off a guy that's looking pretty dang awesome in his HC role right now. I'm not down on Freddie, but the truth is that he has A LOT to learn about being a HC (and playcaller). Freddie will never be Shanny, Shanny is simply a different breed that doesn't come around very often, but I do think Freddie can get there. The question is how long that will take, and do we have the patience.

It would be 10x worse right now if we didn't win that Bmore game.

I wanted to get a walk in after getting home from work late and before I settled down to watch the game. I listened to the first 30 minutes or so while walking. My first thought was our play selection on our first 2 drives.

We just finished running the ball very successfully against the Ravens so I expected some control the ball type of philosophy. I was surprised that 4 of our first 5 plays were passes (at least that is what I remember).

I usually listen to Jim & Doug with the TV sound down. I think I turned it off mid-third quarter and watched king of queens reruns. Needed to laugh at something that wasn't also sad.

Regarding some of the Baker comments, I am a huge Buckeyes fan and was definitely bothered by the flag planning but at least I could understand it was a huge win for them. The thing that bothered me more was the Kansas crotch grab. For crying out loud I think Kansas has averaged 2 wins a year for the past 9 or 10 season. Why mess with their fans? The Sooners were up about 40 points, let the scoreboard do your talking.

This kind of brings me to the character thing. Does it matter in pro sports? I certainly don't expect 100% choir boys but I always preferred guys who let their good play on the field speak for themselves. I don't even know what Callaway's issues were but I remember the "gamble" when he was drafted because of character. I was listening to the radio on Baker's 1st int but saw a replay later. AS soon as Sherman caught it Callaway (the intended receiver)just kind of stopped for a second then made a weak attempt to go after Sherman. Add to that his multiple times he could not line up and I was very disappointed.

Not throwing in the towel on any player or the season now but then I wasn't buying the 11-5 12-4 predictions. I sort felt more like Vers in that we had a ton of new players the past 2 years and thought it would take a while.

This sums up our concern w/Freddie:

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
·
20m
Kyle Shanahan: "Everything we do starts with the outside zone. We build from there. We check how they react to it."

This is an identity on offense. I am not quite sure what Cleveland's currently is.



What’s our identity? It seems to change

Darnold? Really, come on man.

I'm not going to ride you for being negative but this is extreme. And the other Chubb is out for the year and had no sacks through 4 games. This is like always wanting to be with another woman other than your wife or girlfriend because the grass is always greener.

Be negative. Keep it realistic at least.

The thing that people should be the most upset about is Bakers behavior. You can have a whole thread on just that.

And I'd bet anything in his midweek presser he's going to double down.

Our identity was to replicate the greatest show on turf.

It's not working. Time for a new one.

I would like to hear Baker's side of the story. So many here are quick to hate on their quarterback....

If anything, it looks like Sherman passes him over.

This sitution mirrors political fake news. Good job, everyone.

#owned

Baker went 8-22 and threw 2 int's. None of that is on Freddie. It's about time you man up and admit that while it's true that Freddie is part of the problem, Baker is too.

And while we're at it, maybe it's time you own up to the fact that Baker's antics are creating undo attention that doesn't help.

Bosa gave us proof of that last night. Running your mouth and putting a target on your back doesn't help.

It's about time you get a better grasp on people's posts before you say something like this. Device has mentioned Baker being an issue as far back as three weeks ago.

Do better.

H
i owe Baker an appology for buying into Sherman's lie.... others do as well but I'm sure we wont see that

You're just here to pick fights, aren't you?

So what happened? Did him and Sherman just not shake hands? Why would Sherman lie about this?

I'm confused.

Who knows what Sherman was thinking but the video, granted a short one, says a lot.

Hopefully we see it from another angle, as there has to be more than just that shot of the captains meeting up.

It's a short clip, and Sherman is coming up to Baker right at the the start of the video. To my eyes it looks like Sherman walked past Baker, Baker looks surprised and looks back at Sherman s he walks past him.... i see zero disrespect from Baker and Baker goes on to hug the next guy.... Sherman is lying and is the instigator of any non-handshake.

history is written by the victor.

maybe in ancient history and battles where the losers are dead or enslaved ... when there is video of the lie Sherman smeared Baker with .... not so much thankfully.

A simple way to avoid a lot of this criticism, drama, media backlash, etc is to just play well and win. Winning cures all ... unfortunately, we’re still a losing team. And our QB play and coaching (among other things) doesn’t look to be on the way to winning

I don't know if he is trying to lie. Maybe he perceived something incorrectly, felt it slighted him, and he took it the wrong way.

By the way, I think evidence of the past clearly shows that Sherman thinks everyone is against him and is generally wrong in relation to his position, according to him.

But that video shows that it looks like what Sherman said is not what happened. That's all I really care about.

Freddie has an OC, why is the OC not calling the plays, it's not like Freddie is some play calling guru with a track record.

Baker threw 3 TD passes that were not caught. 2 to Callaway 1 to Harris. If they gave OBJ effort the game would have been different. I dont know what to think of the run D. Bosa was the game changer. It was a sad night. Baker will be fine he is just having some problems early in games.

the video isnt clear though, unfortunately.

combined with how Bosa was acting, including what all these other players have been saying about our team....i mean it shouldnt be a surprise to anyone that our team has a massive target on their backs.

it also doesnt help that baker has a very clear history of being an absolute jerk to opposing teams, both before, during, and after. so....i dunno man.

put it like this: it would be a lot easier dealing with baker and the teams hype and trash talk if we were actually winning. but we are not, and as such, these things will be highlighted constantly until we start winning consistently, IF we start winning consistently.

and beating up on the bengals and steelers toward the end of the season wont help with that. because we've already got the rep of not being able to beat good teams.

are we gonna throw another party because we beat the dolphins, for example?

I can agree to an extent, i guess my overall opinion of Sherman based on passed shinanigans as re-hashed in the other video is low enough to let me believe this was a calculated smear by Sherman .... he could easiky have simply misread Baker. Would love a more complete and frontal video clip.

Available video evidence leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm feeling like an idiot criticizing Baker for the non-non-handshake.

This refuting info may take a little bit away from the argument that Baker is in sore need of an attitude adjustment, but hopefully not too much.

I think the video is plenty clear to show that Baker was not being disrespectful. I'd love to see more video and a frontal view to see what Sherman is doing as he clearly walks past Baker. Just how i see it.

thats fine, but overall, baker should probably do a lot less yapping in press conferences and on the sidelines and more focusing on being a good QB.

its great for sound bites, not so great when it comes to winning games.

No, but I'll stand up to your BS every day of the week.

Yeah it appears Sherman is doing Sherman again ... but again, if we win this isn’t an issue. Heck, even if Baker plays well and we lose ... we’d get respect. But it’s just a continued trend of not ready for the lights (and we certainly have a lot of attention)

ESPN just showed the clip. I bet Grateful won't post that one. LOL

If Sherman is lying about this, that's pretty bad. However, I'm not going to "apologize" to Baker. Play better and win some games.

I won't bring up the handshake anymore as it appears to be something either made up or misconstrued. But even if it is made up it starts with guys not liking Baker and wanting to stick it to him. Maybe Sherman and Bosa talked about this all week. It's obvious Bosa had this date circled on his calendar.

Less talking, more working, more winning.

What did the clip show?