DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Freddie Kitchens..what was a crowning achievement before this year?

He came in and led us to a come-from-behind victory against the Jets. I think he led us to a late score on our last drive to beat Denver. I think he had a big play when the Bengals were trying to come back. That was the time he was taunting Hue. I think that game was fairly close and that pass to Njoku sealed it.

I like his moxie on the field. I like his confidence. I think he has a great arm. I don't question any of that. Not asking you to agree w/me, but I'm just saying.

I think he needs improvement in a few key areas:

--Shut the hell up about other people. [That should be easy to accomplish.]

--Work on his mechanics. It was noted that he drops too far at times and puts himself in the path where the OT is supposed to steer the defender. I also think he is opening that front foot too much. I mentioned that earlier. [He can easily improve on these things in the off-season if he will hire a qb coach.]

--Read defenses better pre and post-snap. [Getting better at pre-snap reads is not that hard if you put the time in. Quickly processing coverages is another animal and may be an innate thing, but you can certainly learn about tendencies.]

If he improves in those areas, I think he will be a dynamite qb because he has a great arm and can be very accurate. I also think the moment doesn't get too big for him and he has a ton of moxie. He's also very strong and can shrug off hits in the pocket.

I think you have good points except for the shut the hell up part. Not so much you as fans and media in general. We don't get to be thought police. I mean we come in here everyday and express ourselves by spewing our personal beliefs on situations that we don't always understand fully. His tongue is not only NOT BROKEN, but it has little to do with football.

There are lots of posters here, players in the media, players active in the NFL, Coaches, GMs, etc. that all have characters bigger than themselves. Baker is no different. He may be getting distracted or it may do nothing to him or it may drive him, do we really know? And just because you or I don't like what he is saying doesn't mean he doesn't have every right to say it. Especially so when the conversation is being directed at him and he is taking shots from others. Trying to shut him up has NOTHING to do with his game.

Those teams were awful last year.

Give me a signature win against a top team.

Win some friggin games that matter.

I think you are wrong about that. I could explain why, but you won't listen. Thus, we can agree to disagree.

Re: the Rex Ryan kerfluffle....

We were all thinking it. He said it. I will say that, by itself, this little tit for tat would've gotten a chuckle out of me (and most people) and that would've been it.

Problem is... this isn't by itself. It's part of a larger behavior that wouldn't be a big deal if he was on top of his stuff out on the field. But he's not, and this whole thing could snowball (poor play leading to more scrutiny, leading to more Baker sass, leading to more criticism and potential distration, etc).

I thought the Rex response was clever, but I can go elsewhere to get a quick chuckle. Focus on the offense, Baker.

Our differences in PP do not apply in football discussion. I value your football POV much more than you might think. No need to prejudge me.

Answering a question by saying something you shouldn't say isn't an excuse. Every NFL players answers questions from the press. Some know how to do it and some don't. Some use class in their answers and some don't. Some think before they open their mouth and some don't.

Blaming the question on the way you answer it is pretty lame.

j/c

FWIW I think we all should be at least thankful that Baker isn't attending press conferences displaying at best a dubious fashion sense (i.e. Cam "whitney Houston" Newton). We can be pretty confident Bake isn't missing any of his marbles.

He also won a state championship in high school.

This was from Freddie yesterday I believe during his presser:



So much to unpack, and I lost some more faith with him after these remarks.

1. You absolutely had guys giving up. Lackluster tackling, pulling up by randall trying to chase down Brieda, the overall lackluster effort on the field was abysmal. Sorry Freddie, they gave up in that game.

2. You did have chances, very few - but you had chances. Its your job as a coach to make sure they are in position to take advangtage of them. On the goal line and your in empty sets again? You stated a few weeks ago that it was dumb - and yet you did it again. Learn from YOUR mistakes Freddie. You didn't there.

3. Yes, you have a lot of guys that have not been in situations in them now. Like yourself! Learn, adjust, adapt. Stop trying to force feed a square peg. Its. Not. Working.

4. "Everybody will recognize that, and the ones in the building - the people who matter - are the ones who will recognize it". This irked me. The people who matter are the ones paying your salary. US. The fans. Prepare your damn team. Because the people that MATTER, can see you have not been prepared 4 out of 5 games. Get it together, or get out.

What would have rather he said instead?

Your post word for word? You're getting mad just to get mad now.

It's a process.

Hold his players accountable.

"We played a lackluster game, had bad penalties, had execution, and all around bad play. There are no excuses for it, we need to get better."

Less is more, sometimes. He is alienating the fan base IMO, by saying they don't matter or know what they're seeing. Its plain as day at what we saw last week. To suggest otherwise, is dishonest and concerning.

No. A thousand times, no.
That's ridiculous ego talking.

You do not matter. I do not matter. None of us pay his salary. None of us matter.

The ONLY people that matter are his employer, his GM, and the men he coaches. Anything else is a grossly over-inflated sense of self.

If fans dont spend money on tickets, merch, NFL packages, etc. does his employer pay his salary?

I am not saying we have a SAY in what goes on, but we absolutely deserve an explanation as to what is going on, and why the team is not prepared, and what they are going to do to correct it.

Its no ego talking - its fact. Without the fans, they might as well be an AAF team. No fans, no league.

j/c:

I really, really hope we don't have another "blame the HC" for everything season.

The only thing you mentioned that has any impact is ticket sales. Everything else that's sold in the NFL is shared equally among all 32 NFL teams and would have zero impact on the income of the Browns.

You may wish to look at the NFL revenue sharing agreement and how it works.

I think you did, I was speaking as a whole. Every team should be held accountable to their specific fanbases, as they all pay for merch and tv agreements that is shared. Once again, no fans, no NFL - no salary for Mr. Kitchens.

Don't take this the wrong way or "clapping back", but it is a Kitchens thread.

I think for the most part, people are VERY aware of ALL the issues the team has had the last 5 weeks, and have been discussing all those issues on other threads. I can only speak for myself and my post, but I didn't want to start another thread on Freddie just on the comments from his presser.

Well, you keep going on thinking that you're part of the group that matters on Sundays. You don't, and you are NOT in any way part of the effort to prepare for, play or win games; and nobody in Berea answers to you in any way whatsoever... but you are free to think that it so.

to an extent you are right, but to an extent you are mistaken. You act like Haslam or any other owner is paying these players our of their personal fortunes. They are not. They are paying the players from revenue created by the fans. If the fans stopped going, they are not going to keep the teams. They wouldn't be billionaires if they did

I don't think anywhere I said I was, or anyone else was. Your missing my point entirely.

Do you think if fans stopped buying tickets across the board, that would be true?

FYI, if a homeless man can have say on who we draft, I would suspect as a overall fanbase we have some say somewhere then, now that I think about it

Actually, they pay them entirely from shared revenues and most of that comes from TV contracts, which comes from advertisers.

The money goes from advertisers to the networks to the NFL where it is then divvied up to the players.

You could hardly be further removed from the process.

You may be right, but his point still stands. If the viewership for Browns games suddenly dropped off a clip, do you think things would just continue on like nothing is happening?

lol, and how much revenue would they be making from networks if the fans didn't buy tickets? You keep thinking that money is just coming from nowhere. Its not. It comes from the fans. What you are speaking of, do not happen if there are no fans. Please see the AAF if you need an example.

No fans, no revenue from TV. Advertisers? who exactly would they be advertising too, if no one watched or went to the games?

You can say its coming from other places, but the fact is, those other income streams are soley based on FANS being and buying their product. If there are no fans, there are no other income streams.

SMH.

So you think that teams who are winning, or at least compete are going to join you in your little crusade? Good luck with that. Most people don't think they're entitled to the same things you do.

and yet, teams with terrible fan support and virtually nobody watching their games still have the same amount of available cap space from the same sized pool of shared revenue as the teams with people buying merchandise and watching their games......

#jaguars

Freddie Kitchens is a freaking jeanious.

What's wong with you people's??

You have made a big loop around from Freddie owing you an explanation because you are a fan to how the entirety of the NFL gets paid.

Everybody in NFL world knows that interest is generated and revenue is gained by winning.. you have ZERO impact on whether we win or not... ergo, you don't matter.

Add to that the FO and staff have ZERO control over what you do, how you react, what you think... ergo, you don't matter.

Add to that there are millions of fans with a wide variety of opinions that it would be impossible to say the right thing to appease them all... ergo, you don't matter.

You are confusing being a voluntary fan of a football team with being the equivalent of a major shareholder in a corporation... the shareholder gets honest information and access to decision making because they have power and influence, you have none... so they owe you nothing.

3–36–1

I am happy with Freddie for now and I am rooting for him

Miles to go before I sleep

Well of course Freddie could go full Trump and alienate as many fans as possible and financially the Browns as an organization wouldn't be phased by it.

But if the fans were truly as insignificant as some suggest, then Hue Jackson would still be our HC after a season of half empty stadiums and tickets selling at literally $8 a pop.

Would I say that Freddie specifically owes the fans an explanation for anything? Not per say, but if he's such a stand up guy he'd at the very least feel some degree of accountability to the fans, if not for the good feels, but for the practical matter of him being canned if the stands look like they did in Hue's final days.

5 weeks in and we still have ZERO idea what our identity is, or what Freddie's vision or philosophy is. And from where I'm sitting it's not even on the horizon

The Steelers suck
The Bengals suck
We've shown we have the talent to expose the Ravens.

We only need to be AVERAGE to have a shot at the playoffs. 9-7 makes us contenders. If Freddie can't even accidentally get us to be AVERAGE with this roster and this years Division...

I agree with your last part, unfortunately we’ve been far below average in our 3 losses (and probably even 1 of our wins). This team, to this point, looks like a pretender ... mostly because of our QB play and coaching

We've been woefully unprepared, probowl players now look like 3rd stringers, and we lack any sort of consistency.

This is Freddie's fault to not put his players in position to execute. He can claim "we didn't execute", yet it's your job to draw a successful plan these players can execute.

It's your job to make sure you aren't forcing Baker to throw to complicated routes where he consistently throws behind receivers.

Yep, we’re horribly under coached and it’s probably cost us 2 games thus far

Browns OC last season that is credited for improving the offense and Baker Mayfield. Because of Kitchens, Baker was a candidate for NFL rookie of the year. I still think Kitchens was the wrong choice for HC.

Only the special team coach is any good...

We had a punt blocked yesterday.

Just one

I actually think our ST has improved, while both D and O have regressed..

That's what I was hoping to see this year, and the most important thing IMHO, progress.

I never liked GW, and I like Kitchens has a person, but... it was clearly a mistake... but I trust Dorsey, I don't think he will keep this for much longer.

Is this something we should take serious?