DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus White House says Turkey will soon launch Syria operation

Yeah, everybody knew it would happen and told him it would happen. Now all he has left is "shame on you for doing it!"

What a blow hard know nothing Trump is.

These last two posts exemplify the age-old deadbate that has roiled for centuries. Pit is right this time.

My evidence?
This very message board. Notice how we aren't doing this via telegram? How our houses are lit by Edison instead of slaughtered whales?

This is the fact that conservatives must come to grips with: Mankind is genetically hardwired to progress and evolve. As such, History is an endless succession of stories where they get dragged screaming and kicking into the future, while doing everything they can to cling to or revisit the past. ALL of History reads like this. Invariably.

Here is the ultimate, inescapable truth behind this particular fight, and it best said by one of my favorite Soul/R&B bands, Tower of Power: "There is only so much oil in the ground."

It's a finite resource. Ma Nature can't create it as fast as we are burning through it. So... having said that, I'll also tell you this: it's the smart inventors/investors who leap ahead towards renewables. Those who pin their futures to a technology that is already 100+ years old are pursuing a fool's errand.

Darwin was right: evolve, or face extinction.
There are a million reasons for resisting change. None of them actually help to do that. Change/evolution/progress is inevitable. It's why we no longer have the Pony Express. Or rotary phones with party lines. It's why coal can't be saved even with the drastic deregs that are now in place. And it's why 45's "Forward into the past" political schtick is doomed to extinction, as well.

And I say all this after having actually worked in and owned stock the oil industry.

I'll leave you with this piece of advice, imparted to me by my wise Uncle Charles: "Either get right behind this, or get left behind us all."

Feel free to default to your usual disagreeing self. You are much more comfortable in that role, however misguided and anachronistic it may be.

NOBODY!

All I have is, dictators start world wars. We all deserve trump.

Trump is a deplorable human being. It is so sad he is our president.

Even the big oil companies see the future in front of them. They know where we're headed........

These three top oil companies are investing heavily in renewables in 2019

Oil companies around the world have been investing in renewables for some time now but in 2019 Shell, BP and Chevron look to be upping the pace

Three of the world’s biggest oil companies are investing collective billions into renewables in 2019, highlighting what could be the start of a genuine shift towards clean power on the part of the industry’s most established players.

Shell, BP and Chevron have all been making headlines so far this year for their proactive investment in carbon neutral energy solutions and acquisition of renewable power firms.

It’s a trend that has been underway for some time – Shell bought e-mobility company NewMotion, Total incorporated energy efficiency firm GreenFlex and British Petroleum poured money into electric vehicle charging business Freewire.

And yet, across the board, Big Oil spent just 1% of its budget on renewable energy last year, with European firms providing most of the capital and accounting for 70% of the installed capacity.

The signs so far this year suggest the industry could be looking to improve on this – here we profile the investment trends of three oil giants leaning towards clean energy that make the case.


Top oil companies investing in renewable energy in 2019
Shell

Shell has publicly committed to reducing the carbon footprint of its energy products by 20% by 2035, and then 50% by 2050,

In May this year, the oil giant renamed its UK-based energy supplier First Utility to Shell Energy retail, and began serving its British customers with 100% renewable electricity.

The newly-named company will also be offering a range of smart home technology over the course of 2019, with the various measures intended to reduce the costs of charging electric vehicles from home.

Towards the start of the year, Shell also acquired electric vehicle charging firm Greenlots in a bid to claim a bigger stake in the emerging market.

The Anglo-Dutch firm said its new subsidiary will maintain its original brand, but will become the foundation of its electric mobility business in North America.

In an interview with Greentech Media, Maarten Wetselaar, director of Shell’s integrated gas and new energies division, said: “It’s mostly driven by the irreversible choice the world has made to decarbonise, to address climate change and to go to a net-zero energy system.

“And by far, the easiest form of energy consumption that can be carbon-free is electricity.”

“Most of our customers, private individuals and companies, will in the coming decades only be using electricity – so if we’re not in that business, we’ll become marginalised.”

“So to an extent, it’s about survival, but it’s also about, of course, playing a positive role in energy transition – we see the two as equally powerful.”

BP

Almost 20 years ago to the day, BP announced its “Beyond Petroleum” campaign, which aimed to pour billions of pounds worth of investment in to solar and wind energy, but was ultimately derided by the wider community which labelled it blatant “greenwashing”.

Today, the company looks to be gearing up towards a return to renewable energy investment on a similar scale, though it has taken strides to ensure it is more successful this time around.

It has announced an aim to generate CO2 emissions reductions equivalent to 3.5m tonnes every year through to 2025, as part of its Advancing the Energy Transition strategy.

Various actions have been taken towards that end in recent months, with BP $500m (£390m) in low-carbon projects and technologies by the end of 2019.

Earlier this year, the UK-based firm released its energy outlook report, anticipating an increase in the role of renewable energy in the world’s energy mix and outlining its plans to acclimate to this change.

CEO Bob Dudley was quick to remind observes this is only the beginning of his company’s journey, and told Axios: “If someone said here’s $10bn (£7.6bn), go invest it in these new energy technologies, for the good of our shareholders we’re not confident enough to be able to do that yet.”


Chevron

One of the few US oil giants to make substantial investment in the clean energy space, perhaps Chevron’s largest activity in that area is the Gorgon carbon capture and storage project in Australia.

Sold on the promise of limiting its own emissions by 40% by burying up to four million tonnes of CO2 each year, the gargantuan facility has yet to make good on its commitment more than three years after it began producing LNG in March 2016.

As the project’s developer, Chevron is bound by a deal with the Western Australian government to capture 80% of emissions from a submerged gas field over a five-year period and bury them in its reservoir 2km beneath Barrow Island in Western Australia.

The company has been continuing its work to get the CCS element of Gorgon up and running this year, and expects to achieve its goal by the end of 2019.

Its emerging technology venture capital arm, Chevron Technology Ventures, also recently invested in electric vehicle charging firm ChargePoint, after having launched its $100m (£76m) fund in June last year dedicated to supporting new clean energy solutions.

The president of its venture capital division Barbara Burger said: “These are strategic bets, if you will, and they’re really more about getting access and looking under the hood.

“They will inform future action from Chevron, either the use of the technology or where we might want to go big.”

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/oil-companies-investing-in-renewables-2019/

But you know how big oil works. They were born in a field of dreams.

Erdogan doesn't care what's now being said.
He already rolled 45 to get what he wants.
Empty threats won't keep Kurds alive.
It's already started. These people are walking future grease spots.

opps

Dawg, I was talking about this back in 1979.
Some bigwigs from CLE came down (this was when the plant was still owned by Std Oil) to talk concerns with 'the little guy.'

When they asked what they could do to ensure a more secure future (remember- this was during the OPEC oil crisis), I said: "Start investing r&d bucks into alternative energy resources: solar, wind, geothermal. Get out ahead of the curve, because Standard Energy will last longer than Standard Oil."

40 years ago.
Only now are the Big Three doing what I suggested almost a half-century ago.

I never get tired of being right, but I do get tired of saying "I told you so-"

You've heard me say it on this board and I've been saying it for a very long time. Depending on others for your energy source is a weakness. The oil embargoes should have taught people that long ago. Paying $4.00 a gallon for gas should have taught us this not so long ago.

Yet people keep acting like we should avoid leaving that path.

I do believe we are close to energy independent. Not there, but close. Fracking has helped. And in the mean time, solar and wind is helping.

However, solar and wind will NOT supply this country, or any country, with enough power. Period.

It will supply much of it. And when you consider our own oil production combined with the wind and solar we can produce, it would not only make us independent of fossil fuels, it would provide us with a surplus of them. Something that should have happened long ago.

What? Fracking is getting a fossil fuel, isn't it?



Yet people gripe and complain about fracking.

I don't complain about it so I have no idea why you addressed that to me.

I'm not a big fan of fracking. But at this time it's a much cleaner energy source than coal or oil and with all of the production of natural gas it's become even cheaper than coal and is putting coal out of business.

That's an improvement. I'll take an improvement even when it's not perfect.

I'm so sorry I forgot to mention natural gas in my response. Thanks for reminding me it's a fossil fuel. I would have never known otherwise.

So, in all your expertise in any subject discussed, you haven't heard of the environmentalists griping about fracking? Typical.

I have heard of it. That's not in any way what I said. You're having a comprehension issue today aren't you?

You asked me a question and I gave you my answer. I didn't speak on the behalf of anyone else. See, that's part of the problem here. You wish to speak in general terms when you are asking someone else of their opinion.

I'm not one who believes our whole system will change overnight. I'm content to take things one step at a time.

Now if you wish to argue fracking with someone, you may wish to choose someone who shares the opinion you are speaking of.

fracking certainly helped us become more energy dependent, but the issue with it is that we're starting to have some minor man man earthquakes.

also, even you have to acknowledge that there's a certain evolution when it comes to energy.

remember, we use to do things based on sheer man power and nothing else.

coal usage in this country has been going down for decades. while some may try to claim its due to government regulations, the vast majority of the decline revolves around consumer demand and cheaper alternatives. also, its becoming more expensive to even extract the coal to the point where it cost more to extract than its worth on the market.

as such, thats why we have nuclear. its why we have natural gas. its why we have solar and wind.

and the thing with solar and wind is that its very much still raw tech. we havent even scratched the surface on the potential of those two energies.

fracking is fine for now, but sooner rather than later, we're gonna stop and move on to something else. but delaying the inevitable by trying to save dying energy industries like coal and such is pointless. we're making it more painful for those workers when it finally does go belly up. you should check out the situation in Wyoming right now when it comes to coal mining. its bleak.

Turkey begins offensive against Kurdish fighters in Syria


By LEFTERIS PITARAKIS and SARAH EL DEEB
an hour ago
link

AKCAKALE, Turkey (AP) — Turkey launched airstrikes, fired artillery and began a ground offensive against Kurdish fighters in northern Syria on Wednesday after U.S. troops pulled back from the area, paving the way for an assault on forces that have long been allied with the United States.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced the start of the campaign, which followed an abrupt decision Sunday by U.S. President Donald Trump that American troops would step aside to allow for the operation.

Trump’s move drew bipartisan opposition at home and represented a shift in U.S. policy that essentially abandoned the Syrian Kurdish fighters who have been America’s only allies in Syria fighting the Islamic State group. After Erdogan announced the offensive, Trump called the operation “a bad idea.”

There were signs of panic in the streets of residential areas close to the borders as civilians fled on foot, in cars and with rickshaws piled with mattresses and a few belongings. They included people who’d fled from the Islamic State group only few years ago.


At least seven civilians and one member of the Kurdish-led force known as the Syrian Democratic Forces were killed in the Turkish bombardment, Kurdish activists and a Syria war monitor said.

Near the town of Qamishli, plumes of smoke rose from an area close to the border after activists reported an explosion nearby. By nighttime, there were fires in one of the town’s neighborhoods, apparently ignited by the shelling.

Turkey’s Defense Ministry said Turkish ground forces, joined by allied Syrian opposition forces, had moved across the border into Syria. Shortly after, SDF spokesman Mustafa Bali said its fighters had repelled the Turkish ground attack in Tal Abyad.

Earlier, a U.S. defense official and a Kurdish official in Syria said the SDF has suspended operations against IS militants because of the Turkish operation. The officials who confirmed the suspension spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to provide details on the situation.

Turkey’s campaign — in which a NATO member is raining down bombs on an area where hundreds of U.S. troops are stationed — drew immediate criticism and calls for restraint from Europe. In his statement, Trump emphasized that there are no American soldiers in the area under attack.

“Our mission is to prevent the creation of a terror corridor across our southern border, and to bring peace to the area,” Erdogan said in a tweet announcing what he called “Operation Peace Spring.”

He said that Turkish forces, with Ankara-backed Syrian fighters known as the Syrian National Army, had begun to eradicate what he called “the threat of terror” against Turkey.

Minutes before Erdogan’s announcement, Turkish jets began pounding suspected positions of Syrian Kurdish forces in the town of Ras al Ayn, according to Turkish media and Syrian activists. The sound of explosions could be heard in Turkey.

It was difficult to know what was hit in the first hours of the operation.

Mustafa Bali, a spokesman for the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces, said Turkish warplanes were targeting “civilian areas” in northern Syria, causing “a huge panic” in the region.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said those killed in the Turkish bombardments included two Christian Assyrians in Qamishli, a married couple and their child, a man in a village outside of the town of Tal Abyad, and a child in a village west of Qamishli.

Before Turkey’s attack, Syrian Kurdish forces that are allied with the United States warned of a “humanitarian catastrophe.”

The Turkish operation meant to create a “safe zone” carries potential gains and risk for Turkey by getting even more deeply involved in the Syria war. It also would ignite new fighting in Syria’s 8-year-old war, potentially displacing hundreds of thousands.

A resident of Tal Abyad said one of the bombs hit an SDF office, and he fled with his wife and mother by car to Raqqa, nearly 100 kilometers (60 miles) to the south, to flee the bombing. The resident, who gave his name as Maher, said the road to Raqqa was packed with vehicles and families, some fleeing on foot “to get away from the bombing.”

“People fled and left everything behind,” he said in a text message after he reached safety.

Turkey has long threatened to attack the Kurdish fighters that Ankara considers terrorists allied with a Kurdish insurgency in Turkey. Expectations of an invasion increased after Trump’s announcement Sunday, although he also threatened to “totally destroy and obliterate” Turkey’s economy if the Turkish push went too far.

U.S. critics said he was sacrificing an ally, the Syrian Kurdish forces, and undermining Washington’s credibility. Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Trump ally, told “Fox & Friends” that if Trump “follows through with this, it would be the biggest mistake of his presidency.”

Trump later said the U.S. “does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea.”

Trump said he made clear from the start of his political career that “I did not want to fight these endless, senseless wars — especially those that don’t benefit the United States. Turkey has committed to protecting civilians, protecting religious minorities, including Christians, and ensuring no humanitarian crisis takes place — and we will hold them to this commitment.”

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, while noting that Turkey “has legitimate security concerns” after suffering “horrendous terrorist attacks” and hosting thousands of refugees, said the country should not “further destabilize the region” with its military action in Syria.

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas condemned the offensive, saying it will “further destabilize the region and strengthen IS.” The operation also was criticized by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker.

The EU is paying Turkey 6 billion euros ($6.6 billion) to help the country cope with almost 4 million Syrian refugees on its territory in exchange for stopping migrants leaving for Europe.

Fahrettin Altun, the Turkish presidency’s communications director, urged the international community to rally behind Ankara, which he said would take over the fight against the Islamic State group.

Turkey aimed to “neutralize” Syrian Kurdish militants in northeastern Syria and to “liberate the local population from the yoke of the armed thugs,” Altun wrote in a Washington Post column published Wednesday.


Erdogan discussed the incursion by phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Erdogan’s office said he told Putin the military action “will contribute to the peace and stability” and allow for a political process in Syria.

In its call for a general mobilization, the local civilian Kurdish authority known as the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria asked the global community to live up to its responsibilities as “a humanitarian catastrophe might befall our people.”

The Kurds also said they want the U.S.-led coalition to set up a no-fly zone in northeastern Syria to protect the civilian population from Turkish airstrikes.

The U.S.-backed Syrian Kurdish group urged Moscow to broker talks with the Syrian government in Damascus in light of the Turkish operation. The Syrian Kurdish-led administration said it is responding positively to calls from Moscow encouraging the Kurds and the Syrian government to settle their difference through talks.

Syria’s Foreign Ministry condemned Turkey’s plans, calling it a “blatant violation” of international law and vowing to repel an incursion.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Washington of playing “very dangerous games” with the Syrian Kurds, saying the U.S. first propped up the Syrian Kurdish “quasi state” in Syria and now is withdrawing support.

“Such reckless attitude to this highly sensitive subject can set fire to the entire region, and we have to avoid it at any cost,” he said in Kazakhstan.

Earlier Wednesday, three IS militants targeted the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces in Raqqa, once the de facto IS capital at the height of the militants’ power. An activist collective in Raqqa reported an exchange of fire and an explosion; the Observatory said two IS fighters engaged in a shootout before blowing themselves up.

IS claimed responsibility, saying one of its members killed or wounded 13 SDF members.

The SDF, which holds thousands of IS fighters in detention facilities in northeastern Syria, has warned that a Turkish incursion might lead to the resurgence of the extremists. The U.S.-allied Kurdish-led force captured the last IS area controlled by the militants in eastern Syria in March.

___

El Deeb reported from Beirut. Associated Press writers Suzan Fraser in Ankara, Turkey; Mehmet Guzel in Akcakale, Turkey; Nasser Karimi in Tehran, Iran; Nataliya Vasilyeva in Moscow; and Bassem Mroue in Beirut contributed.

Erdogan has been buying Russian equipment, helping Russian interest in the Middle East, specifically Syria, and allowing Muslim extremist to rampage the country.

Then, didn’t even hesitate to start striking our Kurdish allies the moment trump announced we were leaving. And now all we get from trump is tough talk on Twitter.

No honor whatsoever. We might never be forgiven for this. Our already low credibility in the region has no all but vanished.

Trump dismisses concerns about leaving Kurds at the mercy of Turkey

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html

Read the article and his own words. I hate this president so freaking much. I feel so ashamed that 60 million people thought this dishonorable moron was good enough to represent us to the world. What kind of stupid ass response was this?

I hope he gets removed from office. As much as my progressives dislike Pence, he would NEVER say such a thing, nor would he abandon our allies like this trash ass human did.

Screw trump.

No words...

What does this even mean?

““Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe, that’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes, but Europe didn’t want them from us, we could have given it to them, they could have had trials, they could have done whatever they wanted. But as usual, it’s not reciprocal. You know, my favorite word, ‘reciprocal.’ That’s all I want. I don’t want an edge, I just want reciprocal, it’s not a fair deal for the United States.””

Apparently that’s what the Trump supporters consider “being a straight shooter”.

Traitorous Trump drivel.

US soldier in Syria: 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

A U.S. special forces member serving with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in Syria said Turkey is inflicting atrocities as it invades northeastern Syria.

“I am ashamed for the first time in my career,” the unidentified soldier, who has been involved in the training of indigenous forces on multiple continents, told Fox News Wednesday.

“Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It’s horrible,” the soldier added. “We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement [with the Turks]. There was no threat to the Turks — none — from this side of the border.”

Turkey launched an offensive against Kurdish groups Wednesday in northern Syria after President Trump announced that U.S. troops would withdraw from the area in anticipation of the operation, removing the chief deterrent to Ankara's offensive.

Trump sparked a firestorm in Washington over the decision, saying he does not want to fight “endless wars.”

“The Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so. They have been fighting Turkey for decades. I held off this fight for almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home,” Trump tweeted on Monday. “WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a staunch Trump ally and defense hawk, fired back, saying the decision was a “disaster in the making” that “ensures [an] ISIS comeback” and “will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds.”

Turkey has long viewed Kurdish groups in northern Syria, which have worked with the U.S. in the fight against ISIS, as linked with the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is labeled a terrorist organization by both Washington and Ankara.

Reports have emerged of several civilians already being killed since Turkey’s military operation began, with the U.S. soldier telling Fox News that Trump “doesn’t understand the problem. He doesn’t understand the repercussions of this” and that U.S. troops are just "sitting by and watching it unfold.”

“This is insanity,” the U.S. service member said. "I don’t know what they call atrocities, but they are happening.”

Defense officials have reportedly expressed concerns that the offensive against the SDF could lead to the inadvertent release of several ISIS members it is detaining. Trump confirmed Thursday morning that the U.S. took custody of two militants believed to be part of an execution unit in case the Kurds or Turkey "lose control.”



“This is not helping the ISIS fight,” the soldier said, adding that many of the ISIS prisoners “will be free in the coming days and weeks.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/46514...me-in-my-career

wait, so we'll defend ISIS fighters but NOT OUR FREAKING ALLIES!!!!!!

all you maga hatters need to do the WORLD a favor and dont show up to vote next year, yall have done quite enough.

Putin is loving this.

Mission accomplished.

This is disgusting. Trump handed them over. He has said "Allies are easy to come by." If they take bribes like him, perhaps. But it will harder now. Get a ribbon for his next gift to Putin or whoever calls. Shameful IMO.

There is no excuse to turn allies over to genocide. None.

Single worst thing Trump has done.

Criminal. And when ISIS is back in 6-7 years time and is killing innocents including US citizens, the blood will be on Trump's hands. His unilateral decision without any plan or forethought or GOP support is for his own political agenda and nothing else.

This and his environmental/national park travesties, along with his overall nasty buffoonery, have me wanting his, hopefully, lone term to end as soon as possible. This crap has to end.

Jc

I just want to remind the board that part of the reason why mike Flynn got busted was because he was acting as a foreign agent to Turkey.

And obviously Rudy has been doing the exact same thing.

jc/

Turkey and the Kurds have been fighting for 2 centuries now.
They are back at it after a pause to defeat ISIS.

I for one am glad our 2000 troops are no longer surrounded by tens of millions of people we have never been able to trust in the quicksand known as the Middle East.

Turkey considers the Kurds to be terrorists and wants to push them back, 30 miles from the Turkish border.

Like most of you said about Iran, this is none of our business and not worth one more American life.

I don't remember you calling for their removal before Trump removed them.... and had Trump not removed them, you would credit Trump for his brilliant plan to defend our allies and keep us safe.

We abandoned the only allies we had to fight ISIS. Even most logical Republicans agree on that.

Any one notice what Connolly said in the prank call and what he is saying in the press is two different things? In the call he pretty much agreed the Kurds are a problem for Turkey and they need to deal with them. In the press he is saying that he doesnt like the fact that Kurds will be killed. What did he think the Turkey would do about their problem?

How do you feel about the 25,000 troops we have standing between a million North Korean soldiers and South Korea?

Pentagon announces new troop deployments to Saudi Arabia

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/11/politics/us-additional-troops-middle-east-iran/index.html

40 doesn’t want to protect our Kurdish allies, but like it when trump bends over backwards for Saudi interest.

Shame.