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Based on past week-end performances:
It's got to be Florida and USC with maybe LSU if they can beat Florida on Oct. 6, game. JMHO
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1st String
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LSU looks to be the team to beat, they look solid
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Whoever wins the SEC will win the NC. USC will get their bells rung by either LSU or UF
you had a good run Hank.
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i'd like to see LSU beat the crap out of USC so they can finally stick it to them for claiming a "split" national title.
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Quote:
claiming
They did "claim" it, the were voted national champions by the AP poll. The AP poll has been recognizing national champions for years and years and years. It hasnt changed.
Eat it Phil...
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i understand that, but everyone agreed to play for the "BCS" national title at the beginning of the season, not the AP. the AP was only 1/7 i believe of the BCS calculation that year. so yes, they did win the AP title. but "claiming" to be a "split" champion is where i have a problem. i mean, do you really think pete carroll at the beginning of each season says to his team, "all right guys, let's go out there and win the AP title" ? no, because they're playing for the one that matters, the BCS title.
i just can't stand when the media refers to them "splitting" the national title or having won titles in back to back years. it's a nice consolation prize but they have no real claim to a "split" national title for that year.....as far as i'm concerned.
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When you are #1 in the AP and #1 in the coaches poll, and dont get to play in the BCS championship, the one that matters is no loner the BCS championship.
Only reason LSU was awarded the coaches poll championship is because the Coaches are required to vote whoever wins that game #1.
Eat it Phil...
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Legend
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I have had this discussion with 2119 before, so don't waste your fingertips. He sits on the fact, and it is a fact, that the AP has always voted a team #1. That's fine, and unquestionable. However what he refuses to accept is that every college in the country and their governing boards agreed to accept the BCS Title game winner as the National Champ, as most of the rest of the country does. SO, the AP can do whatever it wants, but it's still meaningless, especially in light if the fact that their poll doesn't even play a role in the selection process anymore. Now if it did, I wouldn't have any trouble with them declaring their own champ.
This year, again, is going to be a sticky one. I see a lot of one-loss teams that are going to be better than the 2 leftover undefeateds.
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Thats the thing though, its not meaningless.
The AP and the coaches poll has always been the "recognized" national champions.
Then the BCS came along in hopes of defining a clear cut champion. Unfortunately it didnt work out that way.
Even when the AP poll was apart of the formula they were not obligated to vote the winner of the BCS title game number 1. (unlike the coaches)
So when USC was ranked #1 in the AP and the coaches going into the BCS title game, but not selected for the title game, the AP didnt want anything to do with it. The only reason LSU was voted #1 in the coaches is because they are contractualy obligated to do so.
College Football champions are not crowned by winning a game, it is voted on, just like it always has.
Im not sure why you think because the BCS formed this formula with its own rankings that that somehow makes the AP national champion obsolete?
Eat it Phil...
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It's obsolete because,...well, it's obsolete. I fail to understand why you would allow a crown for a team that didn't even play in The Game, an agreement that all of the colleges, presidents and coaches were on board with. Two teams get in, two teams play, one loses. If I say the AP is meaningless to me, and it is, that's just my opinion. I don't expect you to buy it. I don't really care. On the other hand, coming from a Michigan fan, I would think you'd be anti-split title too, seeing how's you got screwed out of a half in 97 (?) with Nebraska, a vote I personally thought was crock of bull, and somewhat a general impetus for a single title BCS setup in the first place. Hey, had the Buckeyes lost 41-40 last year to Florida, do you think the AP would have given us a "half share ?"
Today, you play to get into the BCS title game. You don't play to get a paper share from the AP. That's what makes it obsolete. You keep bringing up "AP historicallly,...etc.etc" Who cares ?? That was yesterday. They can vote all they want today, tomorrow, next year. The trophy any team really wants is the crystal one, and that one's still in Baton Rogue.
You also have the AP doing the right thing and not giving Auburn their "fair share" paper title. What's up with that ???
The AP did what they did to stir the pot. Screw them and their poll.
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Lol, its not yesterday though. The BCS is no more an authoritative figure than the AP is. The NCAA does not have a champion, only governing bodies outside of the NCAA that recognize a champion.
The OSU game is irrelevant. USC was #1 in both polls going into the bowl game and won their bowl, therefore the AP appointed them #1 rather then go by what a computer said was the #1 team. The AP crowns a national champ and always will.
What you dont recognize is the NCAA does not crown a champion and there is no championship game. There is one poll that has a bowl game "designed" to produce a champion from a formula but unfortunately it did not work, and 1 of the other main governing bodies wanted nothing to do with the garbage that was the BCS. Many years they have gotten right, some they havent, and the AP has always and will always be a recognized national champion.
Eat it Phil...
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Quote:
Lol, its not yesterday though. The BCS is no more an authoritative figure than the AP is. The NCAA does not have a champion, only governing bodies outside of the NCAA that recognize a champion.
The OSU game is irrelevant. USC was #1 in both polls going into the bowl game and won their bowl, therefore the AP appointed them #1 rather then go by what a computer said was the #1 team. The AP crowns a national champ and always will.
What you dont recognize is the NCAA does not crown a champion and there is no championship game. There is one poll that has a bowl game "designed" to produce a champion from a formula but unfortunately it did not work, and 1 of the other main governing bodies wanted nothing to do with the garbage that was the BCS. Many years they have gotten right, some they havent, and the AP has always and will always be a recognized national champion.
I always thought USC was only #1 in ONE poll, that's why the controversy in the first place. Had they been #1 in BOTH polls, it would have been virtually mathematically impossible for them not to have been in the Title Game.
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They were #1 in both polls.
Eat it Phil...
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Just looked it up; they had a very weak SOS compared to Oklahoma and LSU. That's what killed them, by .016 percentage points.
Too bad.
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I said at the beginning of the year that it'd be LSU and USC... the only other two teams I see getting there are OU or UF.
Who ever wins the LSU/UF game will probably make it... OU needs some help but should go undefeated.
<><
#gmstrong
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Why do you think the Sooners need help,...??? Oh, I get it, you mean, either the LSU-Fla winner or USC has to falter, right ???
Like in the discussion above,.....the computers will go a long way toward deciding who gets to play,....I'm no Sooner fan though so I really don't care about them.
But I'll tell ya' right now, if Ohio State goes undefeated and is sitting in the 3 or 4 BCS hole with the LSU/USC/Fla/OU/WestVa combo ranked above them, I will be disappointed not to be in the Title Game, but you won't get no valid BS argument from me the way USC and LSU look right now,....AND I won't accept some BS paper title from the AP either,....
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Just clickin'
Anyone else hear Lou Holtz before the Notre Dame-Michigan game? He said if Notre Dame lost the game then it would be difficult for them to get the at-large BCS spot.
Only Notre Dame could be so arrogant to be considering the BCS sitting at 0-2, and a devastating 0-2 at that. And Lou wasn't ruling out the at-large spot with a loss to Michigan, just that it would be "difficult".
Man, I hate that school.
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He's just defending his team man. What should he say we suck? He's like me confident.
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Quote:
AND I won't accept some BS paper title from the AP either,....
Lol at paper title.
Eat it Phil...
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This is one of those BCS rules that is really a bunch of crap, as it caters only to Notre Dame.
Not to worry; they're not going to any BCS bowl. They'll disqualify themselves soon enough.
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yea - OU I think has the easiest road to undefeated even with having to play in a championship game... LSU and UF will both have a very hard road to get there... they play each other, so one of them will not make it.. and they have to go through a SEC conference that has been stacked the last couple of years. South Carolina is looking good... hell Kentucky looked pretty good... and Tenn, Bama, Auburn, and Georgia can all sneak wins in there. But I still think one of those two will get out undefeated...
USC has a few pretty good schools they'll have to get by in their conference... but I still think they'll handle it pretty easily.... their team is stacked and I doubt they make the same mistakes they made last year when they looked unprepared in a few games (Oregon State anyone?)
West Virginia will probably screw up somewhere... the big east is weak... but Louisville and Rutgers could both pull off a win against them.
And the Bucks have a tough road. UM is still tough against us especially at home. PSU looks good... Wisconsin can be good when they want to be.
This is why I love playing the games.
But I can easily see 3 or 4 teams sitting at the top undefeated... that's why I want a playoff.
<><
#gmstrong
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Right now, assuming a predicted undefeated Buckeye team, they will not get in. And I don't have a problem with that, as long as there are still undefeated USC and LSU (Florida) or OU.
What will be interesting is if only one is left, like last year, who the system picks as the best one-loss leftover.
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Quote:
Right now, assuming a predicted undefeated Buckeye team, they will not get in. And I don't have a problem with that, as long as there are still undefeated USC and LSU (Florida) or OU.
What will be interesting is if only one is left, like last year, who the system picks as the best one-loss leftover.
i think the bucks have a chance at running the table, but i do agree with you, that an undefeated lsu/fla, and usc are all more deserving, and to be honest, i don't know if i want to see ohio state go up against any of those teams... next year the buckeyes will be contending for a title, no doubt... right now i just don't think they are quite ready for the defenses that all 3 of those teams play...
they did look great on saturday though, on the road, tough environment, boeckman played great, the defense was outstanding... chris wells doesn't go down without taking you at least 3 or 4 yards with him...
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Schedule is fraught with the toughies, Penn State, Whiskey, Michigan. Not this year, my friend. Ain't gonna happen.
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Schedule is fraught with the toughies, Penn State, Whiskey, Michigan. Not this year, my friend. Ain't gonna happen.
i didn't say it would, i just said there is a chance...
obviously going into penn state is tough... but at the very least it will be a very good game...
wisconsin has not looked as sharp as thought, and well, michigan, beating notre dame doesn't do a whole lot for me... that team is still not top-25 worthy...
chances are they'll drop that game to penn state, but like i said, they have the chance...
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We'll both be wrong and get bit by Purdue,...
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He's just defending his team man. What should he say we suck? He's like me confident.
There's a big difference between defending his team and expecting a BCS bid just because it's Notre Dame.
Last year I wasn't saying the Browns sucked, but I also wasn't expecting an invitation to the playoffs just because it's my team.
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All good stuff.....but way too early to really hash out at this point. Teams are now just getting into conference play where rivalry takes its toll. Every year a few teams just drop one they shouldn't and there is always a surprise team or two not even in the discussion at this point. Just speaking from a SEC standpoint, it is nearly impossible for a team to get through that schedule undefeated....too many good teams and for some reason the SEC seems to have more heated rivalries than other conferences....I don't know why that is, but it is  That is why it is the BSC .... BS Championship....and my team won it last year. Until they figure a way to take maybe the top 8 teams and play them off over 3 games it is always going to be a somewhat hollow championship. Winning the SEC is good enough for me. Whatever happens after that is mostly out of a teams control.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Also, for those who think having a trophy solidifies your national championship, there is an AP trophy as well, it is not paper.
Also again, the champion is not crowned by winning a game, it is still voted by the coaches poll. And in 2003 3 coaches broke their contractual obligation and voted for USC because the system was screwed up. Only time since the BCS started that the Coaches poll winner was not unanimous.
When you realize that the BCS has no authority you will understand, the authority is still the coaches poll and the AP poll. The BCS is only a system used by the coaches poll to help determine a true #1.
Eat it Phil...
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Quote:
Also, for those who think having a trophy solidifies your national championship, there is an AP trophy as well, it is not paper.
Also again, the champion is not crowned by winning a game, it is still voted by the coaches poll. And in 2003 3 coaches broke their contractual obligation and voted for USC because the system was screwed up. Only time since the BCS started that the Coaches poll winner was not unanimous.
When you realize that the BCS has no authority you will understand, the authority is still the coaches poll and the AP poll. The BCS is only a system used by the coaches poll to help determine a true #1.
Your words my friend,....and is this not what we all want -- a true # 1 ??? We don't have a playoff, so right now, the BCS, the system currently in place and approved by ALL of college football (except maybe the AP) is what I go by, where a game -- at least one game -- is played on the field, not in some voting booth. It is what is,...your discussion points will not sway me, because I don't care what the AP says.
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Yeah, a game between the #2 team and the #3 team. Sweet championship game. 
Eat it Phil...
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I never said the BCS was perfect or didn't make any mistakes. Most of the computers all had USC # 3,...voting is subjective, and they all had one loss that year. It's a tossup. And nobody said the AP was wrong,...I choose to honor one system. The AP was part of that system, everybody agreed to it, the game was played and LSU won. I'm done. LSU, National Champion. Period.
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You are right, LSU are National Champions.
The Ap agreed to have there poll used in the formula, not to vote the winner #1.
USC, 2003 National Champions, period.
You can honor one system, but unfortunately, thats not how it works in college football.
Eat it Phil...
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Well that's how it works for you, whatever.
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Quote:
Well that's how it works for you, whatever.
Actually thats how it works for history. If you want to pick and choose your own national champions, thats fine, but its not how it works. Look it up in the record books.
Eat it Phil...
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Right now, the three best teams are USC, LSU, and Florida. However, there is 0% chance that Florida and LSU play for the National Championship. I predict LSU will beat Florida in a close game on October 6.
Furthermore, Suppose LSU, and USC don't lose, naturally, they play in the title game. But, if either Texas, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Ohio State, Penn State, or Wisconsin go undefeated, then you have yourself another split National Championship on your hands- Regardless of what any poll says.
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Oh dear, I hope this doesn't change the good tempo of this thread.
DON'T FORGET THE 2002 BUCKEYES! -You know, the team with the great defense, and conservative offense. Ohio State's starting defense has allowed one touchdown all year, if they go undefeated, they deserve a shot! If they go undefeated, and aren't in the NC game, they have earned themselves a share of the title, NO MATTER WHAT ANY POLL SAYS!
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I agree. But, you won't have a split title unless the AP votes one of those others a paper "share." They didn't do it last year,....or the year before that. And they didn't do it the year Auburn "got screwed." I seriously doubt they'll do it after a USC - LSU matchup. They only did it the year their OPINION was discounted by the computers. Wasn't their fault, wasn't my fault, wasn't Oklahoma's fault, but it was a fault. So what. LSU,...National Champion according to the BCS, where the GAME WAS PLAYED, and not voted on.
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