DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus 2020 Dem Candidates pt.3

Not really. Pete is not bad. And there are some that are less progressive that I don't see that way. But when you are a democrat using GOPer verbal attacks on progressive dems, like you just did; then you are republican light. That's all Amy K. has. She's like rice cakes in every other way.

This particular attack on healthcare for all enrages me for it's stupidity; "I can't back an insurance plan that's going to take 140 million people's insurance that they have now away" while not acknowledging the gouging going on in that system and it's complete failure to control costs or provide adequate coverage or even mention that it's not sustainable! Nope, no factual argument at all, just the same damn fear tactics that the GOPers use.

No, you can't tell Americans they have "no choice" in their healthcare. You can't say, "We're going to take away your current healthcare and force you to take what we tell you to take". That's just a stupid thing to do.

It seems you dislike anyone who doesn't go along with your political agenda hook, line and sinker. It's why I keep saying the Republicans are trying to hand you the election and you'll still blow it.

And before the rhetoric starts about how, "If everyone isn't on it, it won't work." They already do it with the military and it's not nearly as many people as would be on medicare for all "that want it" would be.

Trying to cram things down the throats of Americans is a losing strategy.

Look at you pointing at me with those three fingers pointing back at you... You are absolutely guilty of just that. Some 80+ percent want medicare for all, but the 'save the insurance middlemen' crowd want to muddy the water with this rhetoric. Fact is, nothing changes except who pays and the insurance middlemen get cut out. You can go to ANY Doctor/Hospital you want with better coverage than you have now and spend less money doing it... how is that remotely scary?

Then let 80% of them have it.

I'm not a "save the insurance middleman" person. I'm a save Americans the right to choose person. I'm not like some who waffle. I believe the same way on abortion as I do healthcare. The right to choose.

A president that is not giving away the store to the military, tax cuts or offering crazy new healthcare, and free college for everyone sounds more reasonable.

At the end of the day, it’s income and expenses.

Your right to choose the antiquated failed system over one that covers everybody should never take priority over everybody being covered. JMHO. If you agree to that, then I support your right to choose.

Unlike you viewing healthcare for all as a freebie, I view it as the decent thing to do. Nobody should die because they can't afford healthcare or because profit is more important to some asshat.

This is pure rhetoric with zero substance.

So let me get this straight. Medicare (for all who want it). According to your own post, about 80% of the people want it.

According to you, it will be cheaper, with better coverage and lower, if not zero deductibles.

Things you refuse to address. The military already has socialized medicine. They have a very small percentage of the population enrolled. Yet they have managed to negotiate prescription drug costs significantly.

The largest healthcare insurance company in America is United Healthcare Group. They only control about 13% of the market. Next comes Anthem at less that 10%. Then comes Humana at around 8%. There are several more on the list.

See, we are both after the same thing just with different ways to go about it. If 80% of America wants Medicare for all, private insurance companies simply can't compete with what's left of the remaining health insurance market. If it's cheaper and has better coverage, soon people will switch over to Medicare for all because it just makes sense.

The end results will be the same. The only real difference is you wish to use a hammer to accomplish it.

It seems you and OCD actually have something in common. You both agree that people shouldn't have a choice. You just disagree on which issues they should have no choice in.

BULLS*

Typical centrist rhetoric. You're the only one that has a legit idea. So tell me smart guy, what is your grand right to choose the failed system going to do to bring down cost and make sure everyone that needs medical help gets it? NOTHING. You and the trogs just don't want things to change so much that you might have to learn something new or be pushed out of your comfort zone.

I'm very familiar with the VA system, and it's much better than 90% of the insurances I've seen in my life. And my problem, the need to use a hammer, has less to do with choice and more to do with loopholes that will be applied by political opponents; have you seen Obamacare? GMAB

You know, I've brought up statistics, asked you questions and addressed some of your point. In return all you have brought to the table is a bunch of rhetoric.

How can private insurance ever survive with only having atotal of 20% of the market share?

How can they compete against better, cheaper coverage with better benifits?

Answer? They can't. But in the mean time, rather than let nature take its course you want to force people into something they don't want.

Try staying on topic and bringing something of substance to the table instead of trying to continue to alienate the very same people that have more in common with your ideas than against them.

I'm tired of your juvenile name calling and socialist rants.

I still like you too. But are you trying to say calling someone a "trog" isn't a juvenile response? Come on man.

And why is it a "fake choice"? I mean we agree that for profit healthcare would surely fail, but why is it you feel so insistent that people not to be permitted to figure that out on their own accord?

That's really our only disagreement here.

The biggest and most accurate description those who oppose mandated national healthcare is the socialist label. My ideas takes away that label and the biggest weapon the opposition has. I mean if you can't see that as a very positive thing to still arrive at the goal we want to see happen, then I can't really make a point here.

Taking away your opponents biggest weapon is a huge advantage. We both end up with what we feel needs to be accomplished.

I don't see how they really could. The medicare rebuild bill would stand on its own whether mandated or not. I do agree that they will try to throw all their weight in stopping it.

But the only difference in the bill would be the mandate. You favor the bill with a mandate. I favor the bill without a mandate. Now maybe I haven't been clear here. I do agree with a mandate that everyone have healthcare.

But as with the car verses the horse and carriage, everyone will end up on Medicare instead of private healthcare. Accept maybe the Amish.

But the medicare bill would be exactly the same except that single clause. At that point private healthcare companies would hold no power.

Now if you feel they will be consistently be trying to tear down the bill line by line moving forward after it's passed, I would agree with that. But if you feel that it's the mandate itself they will be targeting I think it would go much deeper and much further than that.

No they wouldn't be the same at all bro. There won't really be a mandate, because in a true single payer system medicare for all ANY other health insurance as we know it would be illegal. There may be some coverage for cosmetic surgeries like fake boobs and facelifts that have no underlying medical need but that's about it. The rest would cease to legally exist leaving them nothing to fight for, manipulate, or slowly erode when GOPers take power like they did with Obamacare.

This debate between us is moot anyway, because unless this is done in a bipartisan way with general consensus it will be challenged to hell and back anyway. But the left's starting point for this negotiation should definitely be closer to my stance than yours for obvious reasons.

Sometimes what seems obvious isn't always the correct answer.

True. But sometimes the obvious solution is the right solution too.

jc

Warren has an opportunity to take firm control of the race tonight. candidates are definitely gonna hit Warren over her support for medicare for all, which she needs to have a solid rebuttal for.

hopefully we get some cleared up answers on that LBGT policy stuff *cough* Beto *cough* because that LBGT equality townhall was scary and potentially a huge disaster for some.

i just have to say that Beto is really a nutjob. I mean think about it; we got two front runners who have socialist attached to their names, but its the crazy, young, "woke", white texan guy with the pitch fork and torches rhetoric.

he straight up said he's coming for your guns, and now he straight up said he wants to tax churches who don't conduct gay weddings. lol thank god he is low in polls and the majority of us dont take him seriously. i really need him to say something stupid tonight so he can go away.

Quick side note: I think and have always thought that Churches should be taxed like businesses. They are selling faith. Not much different than insurance IMHO.

Lol get Biden off the stage

They trying warren hard over healthcare.

I like it though. More candidates need to face firing squads, lets us see how they respond under some heat.

Tulsi gabbard just proved why no matter how much she whines, the majority just doesn’t want her representing us. Mayor Pete schooled her on our betrayal of the Kurds.

She barely made the cut this debate, she probably won’t be making it again.

Foreign policy is suppose to be her strong suit, and yet she’s not even good at that.

It would be nice if they could:

1) Narrow the field down.

2) Talk about issues.

Blabbering on about Trump is useless until they face Trump.
I want to hear about their stance on issues.
Its a given that they all hate Trump. Tell us things we dont know.

The clear reality emerging at the end of the long debate was that these are desperate times for a Democratic Party suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Never give up little buddy! lmao

I didn't watch the debate but elite leftie media says everybody won. I guess klobuchar even showed some gusto, spicy rice cakes. She wanted to be next in line for that centrist/moderate voter after Biden falls in the polls. But I also heard that Pete took that spot first.

I did see them all lined up in a group pic and wondered if Gabbard got the memo about not wearing white after labor day... She's now a trend setter proving that is false...

I hear Klobuchar used the 'right wing' attacks on Liz, asking her how she plans to pay for things while pretending that spending and deficits matter to anyone. This isn't your grandpa's America Amy, nobody gives a damn about that anymore. They all just want to know what is in it for them. How big a slice of pie will I get?

Freebies for all! What a joke the GOPers have there. Anything that helps regular people is a freebie or a handout or welfare that we have to justify by showing how we'll pay for it... Meanwhile we can spend unlimited resources on wars, business welfare/handouts, and propping up the rich. smh

Trump is off the rails delusional today, going on and on with his typical word salad about how dems are unfit, unfair, and unAmerican. He and his minions live in dementia wonderland where President Poopy Pants smells rosey. The traitorous POTUS thinks that he is more fit to run this country than any Dem and the dems have no chance of winning. But the driving factor behind this rhetoric is the fact that he fears being impeached before election day.

This country, the poor, the young, the old, the working class, the majority of decent hard working folk deserve a President like Bernie Sanders or Liz Warren to drag us kicking and screaming back to true center and make America's government work for all of us not just the money in the shadows.

Why don't the Dems tell us how they would improve on this?

The national unemployment rate of 3.5 percent is at a 50-year low and the unemployment rates for women, African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans and Asian-Americans are at historic lows. Over 6 million jobs have been created on President Trump’s watch – including 500,000 manufacturing jobs.

Thanks Obama.

j/c

Mayor Pete schooled Warren and Beto.

Maybe we should be thanking George Washington, and Abe Lincoln

We should for their part, as we should Obama for his. Trump had little to do with the numbers spewed at me above other than riding O's coattails.

Last night's debate was boring. It was the same ole, same ole. The field needs to be narrowed as the top 3-5 spoke most of the time anyway and said nothing new. I also didn't like how CNN cut them off and quickly changed topics when the conversation and dialogue was good. Clearly, they also felt they had to attack Warren (just as they did Biden in debate 1 & Harris in debate 2) because she was getting most of the attention.

Tulsi most likely won't make it to the next debate so she was a waste of time, as were some of the other fringe candidates like Castro, the billionaire and Yang. Beto dug his grave with his gun comments last debate, Cory had a decent night yesterday, but he isn't polling nearly enough to make it and despite her great first debate, Kamala hasn't been able to regain traction. She is lagging behind. I thought Pete B. had probably his best debate last night, but not sure if it was enough...maybe. Certainly to remain in the top 5/6. He may even overtake Harris after last night.

Klobucher? Whatever. I 100% agree with OCD...Republican Lite. Canned variety rather than bottled, as well.

Lets blame Trump for World war 1 and World War II while your at it

Nah let’s not....he’ll get his own Isis debacle to own for generations.

Powerful Democratic Congressman Elijah Cummings has died

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-rep-elijah-cummings-died-093050451.html

RIP

Sad. I didn’t know his health was declining this rapidly.

I was completely shocked by this. I didn't know he was sick at all. At least I didn't know he was anywhere near this kind of shape. This is just a shame, he deserved to see the country rid of the stain in the oval.

Now's the time for Hillary Clinton to jump in and steal the nomination!