DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Seahawks 32 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly!

I used to do this thread awhile back. Yesterday's game seemed to contain a lot of the the good and the bad. There was also a bit of ugly. I'll give it a shot



There is a lot to unpack from this game. It was full of Good Browns and Bad Browns. I think we played a lot better than we have in recent weeks, but just could not get it done. There are a lot of reasons for that and I don't think I can get to all of them in just one post. Anyway, some observations/thoughts:

The Good

--Freddie: I thought the scheme was better. We threw more quick passes. We ran the ball quite a bit. There was an obvious attempt to have Baker get rid of the ball faster. I thought the team came out focused and was ready to play.

--Baker: He did get rid of the ball quicker. He showed-off his powerful arm. He seemed to be conscious of not always rolling out to his right at the first sign of pressure. He showed a lot of toughness. He was hurt. He gutted it out.

--The OL: They did a very good job of giving Baker time to throw despite Seattle having two very good edge-rushers. They also opened up some holes in the running game. Kush is so underrated. He is very good at pulling. He got hurt, too. Like Baker, he gutted it out. Dude could hardly walk off the field.

--Myles: He was in their backfield the entire game. I think he had two more sacks. The DL got pressure, but Wilson is a different cat. He might win the MVP this year.

--The D played hard.

--OBJ and Landry made some nice plays and both were very good at blocking.

--Nick Chubb is becoming our best player. He is fast. He is strong. He can carry the load.

The Bad:

--Freddie: It bothered me that we abandoned the run on a couple of series late in the first half. We had a double digit lead and went pass happy. We gave Seattle too many chances. I also think his clock management down inside the red zone was horrific in the first half. Some of his decisions baffled me. I did not like the challenge. I think he was right, but I could tell the first time I saw the replays that they were not going to overturn that. He needs to calm the heck down under pressure. Not running Chubb in the red zone in the first half was dumb.

--Baker: He threw into coverage too often. His accuracy was off. It's one thing to throw a back shoulder throw on the go routes down the sideline and also protect your receiver over the middle, but those were just bad throws. He also fires the ball as hard as he can on almost every throw other than the screen passes, which look like ally-oops. Dude, take something off of it and lead your receiver instead of throwing a rocket that is off-target.

--The OL: The penalty on Robinson on one of Chubb's long runs was devastating. Both of our tackles made some mistakes.

--The secondary was poor. Their worst game of the year. Too much separation by the receivers and some poor communication by the DBs.

--LBers struggled against Wilson and the passing game.

--Our DTs were not very good against the run.

--Wilks: When you are playing a qb like Wilson, it is pretty dumb to stay in straight zone coverage in the red zone. You can't turn your back to a guy like that. A combination coverage would have worked better. Play man on the front end and zone on the back end.

--Receivers: The throws were off target, but the guys have to make most of those catches. Too many drops.


The Ugly:

--The Officiating: I won't complain about all of it. I thought the horse collar was a legit call. However, the call on Landry for blocking a guy who was running towards him w/clear vision was as bad as it gets. No way should that be a penalty. The goal line play was bang-bang, but they were not in position to make the call. In fact, I thought this crew was out of position several times.

--The Final Score: We should have won this game and it looms as a very significant loss.

They are about where I expected at this stage w/ a few exceptions.

Good/ Myles, Chubb, Punter,

Bad/ Baker appears to me to need a refresher course in fundamentals.
His touch pass appears to have disappeared. Two of the missed throws, to receivers inside of 15 yards, could have dented a tank.
Lighten up dude!
I will say he's got grit.

Penalties obviously are killing them.... coaching?
Not sure how to stop that in the Pro's.
HS you bench them or have them running laps.
I'm leaning toward having Freddy just coach and giving up play calling entirely.

UGLY/ Officiating was HORRIBLE.... both sides got dinged w/ suspect calls.
We got raped w/ that non-existent blind side block.
Horse-collar though was a good call... w/ the new rules.

That game should have been Won.

Good: Chubb, OL, being competitive, Receivers making amazing catches, Special team

Bad: Baker, D

Ugly: Kitchens and not protecting the lead, receivers and keys drops and ints

Solid points Vers. Freddie needs to give up one of his hats. He cannot effectively learn to be a HC while he is calling plays. There is too much going on during the game that he is either missing or panicking about. He and Baker need to R-E-L-A-X.

Pretty much agree with it all Vers so I won't comment down the list... but would add:

Good -
Bakers run for a TD, that's the exact same thing that opened up against the Rams and he didn't take it.. good on him for realizing it and being decisive.

Our OL is better at run blocking than pass pro, but they had a very respectable game in pass pro this week.


Bad -
Tackling, especially the secondary. Tired of watching them duck their shoulder into somebody and hope they go down only to whiff or have them bounce off and keep going.

Myles in their backfield the whole game wreaking havoc, and Seattle didn't hold him one time.. that's impressive... or

Blocking on the punt, they saw something and they exploited it. Shouldn't be that easy.

D made plays but struggled to get off the field. Russell Wilson seems to be making a lot of Ds look like that.

Ugly -
Officiating, the call on Landry is just inexcusable. Anybody notice the play later downfield when Landry had the opportunity to turn and block a LB and started to, then threw his hands up and let the LB run over him like he was drawing a charge? That's where there head is right now.. no idea what constitutes a legal play. Hard to play with passion and aggressiveness when you aren't quite sure if what you are doing is legal and you don't want to hurt your team.

Jarvis Landry on whether blindside block call will make him hesitant: "If you go back and look at the game, the next play I go to block Wagner and take a charge and end up hurting my ankle." Said he has bye week to recover

Glad I waited 24 hours to post. Nice recap Eo - pretty fair. I was at the game so didn't get the benefit of reviews and watching the close ups ....

Good -

We were 20-6 up over a good team. That doesn't happen by chance, Seattle is too good for fluke things to happen to them ... we played and executed really well coming out strong Q1. That's a good sign for Freddie and the coaching of the team ...

We played well on D for long stretches - but man oh man, Wilson is an Elite QB. I remember discussing him pre-season and some folks thought he wasn't all that... He is so impressive, always composed and reading the field and any opportunity. Always pass first but if there is a crease for him to run through he'll take what ever is there. He is exactly what you want Baker to evolve into.

The Scottish Hammer ... nuff said.

The Bad & the Ugly:

There's a lot of bad to go around when you lose a game and you were leading 20-6 ... good teams don't lose those games.

Baker was not as accurate and didn't read the field as well as he did last year. It may have been a little better than previous bad games this year, but he's a way away from where he was and where he needs to be.

Drops - so the posters with an agenda against Baker will look at the drops and interceptions of tips and still blame Baker for throws that were not accurate ... but man, oh man, if it hit's your hands, you gotta catch it. I heard 7 of Baker's 11 interceptions this year are off tips/drops! That's brutal. Odell has at least 3 or 4 where he has hhad the ball hit two hands and he didn't reel it in ... wtf ? . . . . And to add to the point about NOT blaming Baker ... I watched ESPN highlights this morning and they GUSHED over Houston and Deshaun and how they iced the game with a 4th down and 3 pass to Hopkins .... that pass to ice the game was a BAD pass. As inaccurate as any of these tipped interceptions by Baker, but of course Hopkins makes a play and catches the ball.

After the initial drives and getting up by 20 ... Freddie looked like he totally lost the plot. play calling and game management SUCKED. Look no further than the last few minutes of the first half ... instead of milking some clock, keeping the ball out of Wilson's hands and giving Seattle time to run or pass with a final possession .... We're like a pass happy bunch of yahoo's with no idea about game/clock management. When asked about that post-game, Freddie says he wanted to leave enough time to score AGAIN as they had 3 timeouts. . . . seriously, amateur hour. We also went back to long plays with long routes and abandoned the run and short passing game for stretches. . . . Even on on long pass play (forget who to) the receiver was running totally open mid range - and Baker waited for him to make his cut 20-23 yards deep before throwing the ball... no idea if Baker didn't see him, or if the receiver wasn't looking for the ball despite being 10+ yards from any secondary player? . . . everyone in my row was screaming at the open receiver and saying "THROW THE BALL" .... if anyone remembers this play - is this on Baker? The play scheme ? The receiver? .... the fact hat it was a competition doesn't mean as much to me as there was an easier first down if the ball was thrown earlier.

Penalties and discipline and players letting emotions rule their behavior .... all about Coaching (lack of). Again ... for the umpteenth time. I wasn't a G Williams fan for HC until he took the reigns as interim HC .... what IMMEDIATELY happened when took over? We played with discipline, the team & coach looked composed and in control. It's black and white - that is down to the HC. As others have posted I am fully behind Freddie giving up OC duties. Just be a HC and just win.

Officials - yes, we've all said it and it was chronic. Worst game I ever saw live. Seahawks fans behind me were even apologetic. It's all over the NFL and it's horrible ... CLE has suffered as much or more than anyone. Saints might feel like they can point to the no call in the championship game last year ... but the number of times we've been screwed outrageously outweighs even that imo.

There's more but I figure this is enough.

Need to get healthy, need to find out why Higgins dressed and essentially didn't play ... what's up with putting Hilliard out there as a WR and not Higgins (pretty sure I saw that).

Rookie HC needs to put a complete game together. He's flashed some good ... but then folds and gets too emotional/excited and loses the plot. That is not what we need - I'm not giving up and I am encouraged by that first quarter but we gotta see improvement. Bye week could not have come at a better time.

No Good, Some Bad, and a lot of Ugly.

Eo?? There is no Eo here. "VD" opened this wonderful thread.

The good:
Nick Chubb. He is our best player.
Oline. They gave Baker plenty of time today and opened holes for Chubb. They did have some penalties though.

The Bad:
Baker throwing 3 ints.
WRs had too many drops.
Freddie. Calls plays like a kid playing a video game. Way too many pass calls. We don't have a Russell Wilson or Mahommes at QB. We need to play off of Chubb and our run game.
Our tackling was terrible.
Our secondary had their worst game of the year.

The ugly:
Officiating. Hard to describe.

I think our play calling was a bit better yesterday ... red zone passing leaves a LOT to be desired though

I think our OL played very well, especially in pass pro ... that’s a tip to them

Baker and our WRs seem to have very little chemistry and timing ... the back shoulder stuff is off kilter, slants are disjointed, they aren’t sure when to start working back to the ball, etc

Thought i was reading What I Saw...

Interesting grades from the game... Pharoh Brown with top grrade on O

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10...nd-average.html

Defensive grades ... surprised by Vernon grade but hope he's turned a corner with us. Easy to miss the work he did while at the game


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10...nd-average.html

I question any grading system that has Adarius Taylor ..... who played 9 snaps, with no tackles, or anything else .... almost the same grade as Joe Schobert, who had 7 tackles and no missed tackles.

Clean up on isle 6 ... Clean up on isle 3 ... Clean up on isle 4 ... clean up on isle 5 ... clean up in the whole damm store ...

This is one big ole mess and as the saying goes ... what can go wrong will go wrong ...

We just won’t allow ourselves to get any momentum ... we do good things like u said ... but them on MULTIPLE PLAYS/PERIODS one thing or another goes amiss ... its like an avalanche ... a few examples ...

- bake throws a pass a wee bit behind OBJ .. a very catchable ball ... slightly off and more than likely thrown to hard ... and he drops it ... blame on both of them .. so instead of first down good guys ... 4th down ... and of course on the next play ... blocked punt ...

- nice run by Chubb .. holding on #78 ...

- we get in the red zone and Freddie decides Chubb is now useless ... lets not only not run him from the 3 but lets go empty backfields cause thats been SO SUCCESFULL all year long ... maybe Freddie’s thinking it ain’t worked yet so the odds are pretty good THIS TIME!!!

- big sack by MG down at the goal line ... hold up .. he lined up offsides ...

It’s INCREDIBLE how it seems like each mistake is just compounded ...

I NEVER EVER complain about the officiating ... sometimes i even pee some posters off in my defense of them ... *L* ... that penalty on VG ... i have NO CLUE what dude was looking at .. NONE ... usually i know what happened and why the official more than likely missed it .. this one ... i for th life of me can’t figure out what dude saw ... the defender ... never mind .. we all saw it ...

Last Monday night i wasn’t feeling so hot ... closed my eyes about 7:30 for 15 minutes ... woke up at 4 AM ... was glad i fell asleep ... *L* ... the fact thats the #2 highlight of our season for me so far pretty much sums it up ...

On to the bye week ... then NE ... then hopefully we right the ship ...

There have been some good replies in this thread. Thanks guys.

Overall an improved game by the Browns. Blowing that lead hurts.

Good- Chubb- I love him.
Myles- dude was a force all day
84% of our offense
Play-Action- when we use it, it works!!!!!!!!
RUSSELL WILSON- MVP made plays all day long. He is fun to watch

Bad- Red Zone scheme
3rd down D
Whitehead's tackling

Ugly- Call on Landry
TURNOVERS!!!!!!
Officiating
16% of the offense

Like to see this thread return.

Good:

- Chubb

- The playcalling/scheme was improved. And ... it worked when we stuck with it.

- Baker seemed more comfortable, stood in the pocket more, and better accuracy.

- The pressure. Some will only look for sack numbers, but we applied a lot of pressure. Just not always end in sacks.

Bad:

- Getting away from what works for stretches at a time. Is this arrogance, trying to prove that whatever you think will work will just have to work?

- The time management at the end of the half.

- Tackling. Tired of seeing all those yards after contact. Guys dragging our defenders over the first down line.

- Drops. Even OBJ is participating these last couple of weeks. This includes Jarvis batting a ball in the end zone upwards to allow that 2nd interception.

Ugly:

- The 3rd interception. Was that Hilliard? You *have* to catch that. That was basically a lateral to the Seattle player.

- The call on Landry, for blindside block.

I have not been able to watch the game yet as I was out of town with my wife this weekend. My feelings reading about the game and listening to a bit on the radio are kind of what my preseason thoughts were .

We are a young team and we also have a lot of new players. I think we will look good at times and others like we are disorganized. To me this accounts for the penalties and mental errors.

I am optimistic this will improve but the Rams & Seahawk losses could come back to haunt us if we end up getting it together soon.

Some are alluding to it... Carson ate our lunch. As the game went on, it seemed like he was getting more and more yards after contact. It started looking bad.

I am asking and not telling, but during the Seattle telecast, did I hear a very negative stat about the Browns and missed tackles this season?

I think I heard it as well, and it seemed to not make sense to me.

I just did a search on missed tackles for NFL teams in 2019 and I couldn't find anything that was current. Of course, I am not as good at that type of things as many of our posters.

I think the Browns lead the league in missed tackles or are near the lead.

In other words, they suck at tackling.

Someone posted where we were among the league leaders in missed tackles, penalties, and dropped passes. Maybe something else as well.

That is 100% coaching and discipline. Everything Freddie preaches. It is infuriating.

There was some good in this game.

-Chubb is amazing. Feed him the GD ball. Work through him. Why is this difficult to understand.

-Baker still looks skittish and unsure where to go, but he played better. He is not 100% comfortable yet. Is it the new system, new players, too much pressure? I don't know but I still believe in him. I've seen enough good with the bad to believe he has "it."

-Scottish Hammer has one heck of a leg. Still waiting to see him on a fake punt...He played Rugby, dude can run and take a hit as well as break tackles. Give him a shot lol!\

-Myles was in the backfield all game, but no holding calls? He gets held pretty much every play. It is ridiculous, but he has that LeBron effect, officials expect him to overpower and are not calling jack against him. Has he gotten a single holding call this year?

I'm combining the bad and ugly because they are the same to me..

-Defense. We could not get off the field. Russell is one of the best, but where is this touted DL? We provided no pressure on him consistently. Blitz these guys Wilks. Stop being so passive. Also the run defense was hot garbage. I am still waiting for this Line to live up to its potential.

-Baker, I know I had him in the good, because he did look better and more decisive, but the turnovers are unacceptable. I blame him on two of the three, Hilliard has to catch the ball. I don't care where it was placed, he had his hands on it.

-I've said this before and I will continue to say it. I like Freddie the person. He says the right things and has the right mentality to be a great coach, the problem is this team lacks the ability to execute consistently and play fundamental football. It is exhausting because those are the things he preaches. Back up the talk Freddie!

-Play calling was better but not good enough with a 2 TD lead. You burn clock and run the ball against a 4-1 team when you are leading.

There is more, but I am getting fired up as I type this, so I am going to stop lol.

Just so you know, bro. I have always thought that players/coaches can be in the good, the bad, and the ugly in every game. That's kind of the cool thing about this. We don't have to make one evaluation. We can say he did this good and that bad.

I’d venture to guess we’re near the top (or bottom lol) of the list in:

- Turnovers
- Penalties
- Drops
- Missed tackles
- Red Zone inefficiency
- 2nd half point differential

You forgot interceptions, QBR, TD/Int ration, and Completion percentage.

Just sayin'. LOL

That movie came out in the 1960's
I guess I'm the ugly.

" When you gotta shoot, shoot, don't talk"

" you got me down, if I ever get you down you're gonna need a lot of help to get back up again"

" unkn' unkn' (unknown) next to Arch Stanton,

" there are two types of people in this world, those whose guns are loaded, and those who dig"


"Blondie! you know what you are! you're a son of a -
Aye yi yi yi yii wah wah wah."

.... ok i'll play

the Turnovers were ugly.
The game preparedness was bad,
The defense was good, until the game was out of reach.

Lol and the beat goes on

We are also 28th in 3rd down conversion %.. another very important indicator..

The Good -
We played well enough to win vs a Super Bowl contender
Offensive live played well
Chubb of course
Garrett and OV finally pressuring a lot

The Bad -
Tackling
Dropped passes

The Ugly -
Browns luck - those dropped passes kept turning into INTs instead of floating out of bounds or to the ground like most do.

The Refs - Seahawks MVP

Well you asked for it with your selective memory..

Just saying

I’m confused?

This was your post



Think you forgot all the other stats we are in the bottom off that implicated Baker, and Vers just pointed it out....