DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Seahawks 32 Postgame Thoughts

The play calling at the end of the first half was putrid

This could explain why our play-calling looks like it's been called by a drunk.

Well...........this is depressing news no matter how you slice it. Freddie should know better than to say that. On the other hand, what if he has been preaching this for weeks and there are too many individuals on the team rather that team guys? That second explanation is even more scary than the first.

Either way, both theories suck and I am getting aggravated again.

On another note, all these tweets that blame other players for Baker's interceptions [whether true or not] is also probably not good for the locker room.

My three biggest concerns coming into the season [I started a thread about it] were Baker, Freddie, and Chemistry. Two of the three have disappointed and now there may be signs of the third fracturing. I want to emphasize that it may be the case and it isn't proven that it is the case. I just don't like hearing all this crap.

so many balls bouncing off the receiver's hands...

The QB and WR coach needs to sit down and figure out why our QB is tossing so many balls (to some of the most sure-handed WR's in the NFL) that go bouncing up into the air and get picked off.

there is something wrong... if I had to guess... Baker is throwing with a little too much heat.

When you lose, people start talking and fingers start pointing.

Just win.

4-12. Mark it down.

Interesting to look at, and I think Baker didn't make wise decisions for more passes than I originally thought ...

- 1st Titans pick: Had time, threw nearly into quadruple coverage and missed badly.
- 2nd Titans pick: Had time, threw an out-route to a tightly covered receiver and got the route jumped.
- 3rd Titans pick: Threw way behind Landry who barely got a hand on it. Almost wonder if it was a bad route. Tipped pick, but I kind of put that one on Baker.
- Jets pick: Threw it to a tightly covered Beckham who probably dropped it because he got hit by the defender as the ball arrived.
- Rams pick: Was being rushed and basically threw a Hail Mary trying to make something happen on 4th down.
- Ravens pick: Threw it into double coverage. Sealy sort of made a "business decision" and let the pick happen, but still not a good pass.
- 1st Niners pick. Bosa pressured and Baker couldn't put anything on it. If he had another second to throw, it might of been a TD.
- 2nd Niners pick. Callaway does his best Quincy Stone Hands Morgan impression and hands a pick to the Defense. It was a little behind him, but he still got two hands on it and had no excuse.
- 1st Seahawks pick. Beckham runs into the defender and they miss a timing route.
- 2nd Seahawks pick. Threw it a little behind Landry and it looks like the defender got a hand in there.
- 3rd Seahawks pick. Total "ole" job by Hillard.

I sure hope not, but Freddie doesn't seem to be very confident in those quotes; he sounds rattled and I hope that doesn't carry through the bye week.

It just seems like Baker and the WRs also have zero cohesiveness. For example, OBJ ran the 15 yard out last game .. pretty good route, he’s well separated. The ball is slightly behind him and it seemed it crept up on OBJ. Just a slight miscommunication. And instead of a 1st down, it’s 3rd and long

j/c

After reading the press conference transcripts, it sure seems that Freddie talks a lot about receivers being in the right spots...at the right depths...and catching the ball...and better throws...and a receiver running a route that's not even in the playbook.

There is a lot more to these interceptions than just Baker...you are hearing that directly from the HC's mouth...and Baker isn't saying much about it...just like a leader/captain/QB should.

And Freddie emphasized how much “talent” we have quite a few times .. I definitely think there’s some poor play by our WRs right now too. Whether that’s all mental, physical, etc we don’t know ... but OBJ has been about as bad as he could be, Callaway is a space cadet, HIggins has been out, etc

I thought Callaway played pretty good on Sunday. I also don't agree that OBJ has been bad. He has dropped a couple of passes that he should have had, but he has also made some great catches that should not have been caught. No one talks about those, though.

I find it hard to believe that OBJ suddenly lost his game after being great for 5 years or so.

3-4 drops for OBJ in 6 games is bad for him. That’s on pace for more than 10 drops, which would be his worst year by far. And his timing on his staple routes is way off (this may be attributed to Baker) ... slants are disjointed (he even lost leverage on one last game and one a game before), zero impact in the red zone

He’s definitely had 2-3 great plays, but that’s why he costs such a high price. It’s the routine stuff that he’s not been as effective as he has in years past

I think OBJ not practicing and not playing in preseason games was another example of the overconfidence this team has displayed all off season.

That check has now come due.

could be the case

lol there is zero chance this team goes 4-12 with Miami, Arizona, Cinci twice, Broncos and Bills on the schedule. Not even mentioning Baltimore at home and two games with Pitt minus Ben.

I can think of a good way for him, Baker and the WR corps to spend the bye week-

After being away from things for a few days, here's my thoughts:

We outplayed them. We BEAT Seattle.

Then, we BEAT OURSELVES.


I agree with Freddy - this group of guys isn't a team, yet, and they aren't good enough to consistently overcome all of the mental errors they consistently make. The coach can only do so much and then the players have to take it the rest of the way... and they don't appear to be serious about doing that.

There was significant progress in there, though. We took a very good team to the wire and the ONLY reason it went to the wire was because we kept them in the game, and then handed it to them (with some serious assistance from the Refs).

It was a killer of a loss, but it *could* be the catalyst for these guys finally coming together and getting serious about pulling their heads out of their backsides. When they learn to play as a TEAM, instead of a collection of individuals, the way the 49ers do, then this talent is going to be something special to watch. Until then, there will continue to be a bunch of misfires.

Baker got Freddie the job. Lets be honest. THey hired Freddie because Baker liked him.

Freddie is doing everything to put the ball in Bakers hands to make him a hero. CAlling pass plays from the 5, empty sets on the goal line, etc. He wants Baker to be the Hero.

Freddie's comments after this game, were well.....troubling. All he kept saying is "we scored 28 points, we put up 400 yards" etc etc. Your job is not to create offensive numbers anymore, Freddie. Its to win the game. I don't care how many points you score or yards you put up doing so, as long as you have 1 more point than the other team. You don't get a bonus for beating someone by 10 over. I feel like Freddie still has that OC mindset, and not a HC mindset.

He needs to realize that Baker is struggling. We were up 20-6 at half, and still threw the ball 37 times for the game. NO WAY should we have thrown that much. If you run the ball and bleed some clock, maybe those bad ref calls don't effect the game as much giving SEA and the front runner for MVP a chance.

But he wants Baker to be the hero - and is doing anything he can to put the ball in his hands. SMH

Yep, Hero ball describes it well ... and instead of a hero, he’s a goat right now, If it continues down this same path, then Freddie’s in trouble regardless IMO. You can’t finish the season 6-10 and expect to be back

100% you can, and 100% he will be back, even at 6-10.

Nobody let's a rookie QB pick the HC. There are a lot of silly things said on this board, but that has to be near the top of the list.

I don't believe that. If so, John Dorsey isn't worth a flip as a GM and should be released.

No doubt. Baker very well may have preferred Freddie, but he's clearly Dorsey's hire as evidenced in the Seth Wickersham article.

Today, Dorsey not only got his preferred coach but also his preferred structure. Kitchens will report to Dorsey, forcing collaboration and eliminating the appeals court to Haslam. Nobody knows if it will matter, given how Haslam operates. But for one day, at least, it feels good to be a Brown. As Dorsey privately told an associate: "I flexed my muscles and got what I wanted."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2579...history-collide

j/c:

Did Freddie really say "we scored 28 points, we put up 400 yards?" If he did, what was the context? Was he defending himself or just making an observation about how the offense is starting to improve?

Sorry for asking all these questions, but I can't stand listening to press conferences.

He was saying that we played well minus the turnovers ... saying that we did enough to win except our own mistakes

Thanks.

Most items of discussion have been pointed out.
I have one last tidbit from Sunday.

Last year against the Raiders, Nick Chubb's first down was overturned and there was nowhere near a view. Sunday Landry clearly has a TD, but I understand why it was not overturned due to the view. This wreaks of the inconsistency in the NFL officiating. And too often the Browns bear the negative results from horrible officiating.

I hate saying this but Vegas clearly has a hand in how games are officiated.

and he's correct.

Like I said elsewhere: we BEAT THEM, but then we BEAT OURSELVES.

Flat out, we could not get out of our own way long enough to hold on to the win.

A couple things:

1) If the Browns go 4-12 with this roster Freddie is GONE. Period.
2) Freddie saying that he kept his timeouts to score twice before half was either A) arrogant as hell or B) just stupid. I can't decide.

B.

I recall reading Dorsey called Baker and asked his thoughts on who he wanted as HC, and Freddie was the answer.

He was saying that to defend his clock management if I am not mistaken at first. When asked about the end of half. He said he was gong to be aggressive and always will be aggressive. That he wanted to score twice, and wont admit it was a mistake.

he then said it again when they were asking about the game, he just kept talking about how they put up numbers and 28 points. He mentioned it a few times in the interview. Almost like he was saying "hey the offense did great!"

Freddie has taken a lot of heat and much of it is deserved but one thing has been bugging me... who is our veteran leadership?

Between the coach and the roster, every good team has a handful of respected veteran guys who facilitate that camaraderie.. who get 53 guys pulling in the same direction...

Every head coach will tell you the necessity for those guys, they aren't always the best players or the big stat guys on Sunday but they need to be there and they help hold players accountable in ways coaches can't. They need to be as vocal as necessary, lead by example when necessary, rally the troops when necessary... WHO ARE THOSE GUYS?

Thanks.

I used to say this about Hue and I am going to say this about Freddie. Shut up. Do what Belichick does. These damn scoundrel reporters are trying to trip you up and get you to say dumb things. You gotta know that, right? So, shut up and give bland, meaningless answers that piss them off. LOL

yeah his interviews lately seen like he's throwing the team under the bus for his shortcomings as a leader. Not a good look and he's going to start losing his players. If that happens, then we are starting over from scratch. They really need an experienced former HC on that staff to kinda guide Kitchens through this labyrinth. Wilks ain't that guy, he was horrible as a HC in AZ. So noone else on the staff has been a HC. Usually you have a young HC you hire a coordinator that has quite a bit of experience as a HC..Like mcvay has phillips, lafluer has pettine, Nagy has pagano etc

Yeah, that’s a good point. Hiring FK meant we probably needed a more experienced staff, though I’m not sure who was available either

Gregg Williams?