DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Greg Robinson may be benched

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10...nd-average.html

I posted this elsewhere as well - it's not season's grades, it is week 6 only for the offense. Kush and Robinson nearly the same grade. Hubbard worst graded individual on the line. Shocking is this comment: Bitonio was the only starter with a run-blocking grade over 50, which dragged down some grades. .... I wonder if the play calling/scheme may have had as much to do with some of our run struggles?

OFFENSIVE LINE
Joel Bitonio: 71.0.
Wyatt Teller: 60.0.
Greg Robinson: 59.9.
Eric Kush: 59.7.
Justin McCray: 59.3.
JC Tretter: 58.8.
Chris Hubbard: 49.8.

From the same article, just because we would never want to mislead other posters:

I guess the insinuation being that I am misleading people?
I disagree - I posted the link.

Pretty good??????

Vernon has been The Invisible Man. He has not been seen this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looking at that chart with the color codes for each starter, I’m surprised how poorly Ogunjobi has been

I still say we miss Bob Wylie

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExemplaryRectangularGoose-small.gif

I believe that's just for the game vs Seattle.

oh okay, I thought it was for the whole season

Well, apparently PFF does not take into considerations the Int's and also the time the QB holds on to the ball,or throwing into 2x and 3x coverage...

Also apparently does not account for the OL success in the running game...


That's the problem in massaging the numbers, at some point you are going to end up with something that nobody can identify or relate.

Overall I think OL has been good/average, while QB play has been abyssal.

j/c:

I think Dorsey should be considering this first:

Greg Robinson Chris Hubbard may be benched.

I think both OTs are being considered

PFF is very questionable in their ratings, IMHO.

In the Seattle game, where Adarius Taylor played 11 or 12 snaps with no tackles, his grade was within 1 point or so of Joe Schobert's grade for the game. In the previous game, (IIRC) they had Tayloe 20 points ahead of Schobert. (no tackles to 11 tackles, again, IIRC)

So take PFF with a grain of salt.

That could be quite a debate as to which should sit. Vitamin Pine helps sometimes. Really odd tackle play. Who else can we find to be of help? Robinson needs more feet IMO. I think trying to address this would be a priority in bye week.

If that MKC article was talking about Hubbard, I might be able to understand it. Robinson, while not at all perfect, is so far down the list of things that need to improve....

When vers pointed out that it was an MKC article, that explained everything.

That said, if Dorsey can land Williams for not too steep of a price, I would love it if we could slide Robinson over to RT and bump Hubbard into that first sub spot. It'll be rough on the oline cohesiveness for a little bit, but we'd be good as far as talent. RG, I think, will work itself out with stronger RT play.

j/c

Where there is smoke there is fire..or was fire. The OL play this year has been inconsistent...that's very obvious...Dorsey himself stated that BOTH OTs need to be more consistent.

I won't be surprised if Teller/McCray replace Kush/Hubbard next week...Dorsey traded for those guys for a reason. I would be surprised...but just a little...if Lamm - or someone not named Trent Williams - replaces Robinson.

When you are contemplating replacing 60% of the OL, you don't need to look at PFF or other such stats/ratings...you need to look at the tape. Which is exactly what I think they are doing.

j/c:

A couple of things.

--Does anyone remember what was said about things holding the Browns back right before or at the very beginning of last week's telecast? It was something that came from a Brown's insider and the first thing that was said was Greg Robinson was the biggest problem. I can't remember the other two things. One might have have been the huge number of missed tackles. I didn't let it soak in as well as I should have because all I could think about was how Freddie had previously said that he would fire anyone who spoke went to the media w/inside team information. I was thinking it was highly unusual for a team source to publicly criticize their players.

--A second thing is that I noticed that we lined up a TE or even two TEs on the Robinson's side during the game. Typically, teams are right handed and the TE or TEs line up beside the RT. That obviously isn't always the case, but we seemed to lining up our TE or TEs on the left side much more often than would typically be the case.

--Perhaps Robinson is going to be benched when you connect all the dots?

--I really don't know how good or bad Robinson has been, but I hope the Browns really know what they are doing if they bench him. Of all the units on a football team, none of them even come close to the OL when it comes to having continuity. It's so important for these guys to develop chemistry and cohesiveness. In the past, I have likened the OL to a synchronized swimming team or a chorus line. If you are going to make a big change, the bye week is the time to do it, but I think it's a desperate move.

I agree. Robinson may be mediocre, but he's by far the best option we have on the roster to play LT. Making a change there with less talent mid season would only be a disaster with anyone else we currently have on the roster. Trying to replace both Robinson and Hubbard with other players on the roster could be catastrophic. I don't know who this "source " is MKC has, but let's all hope they don't have a clue what's really going on.

If a guy currently on the roster takes Robinson's starting job I will be rather surprised.

Lamm didn't beat him out in TC...so did he improve since then?

McCray was new after TC, but I don't know about him playing LT. RT? Sure..but LT? I think McCray takes Hubbard's job with Teller next to him. Also, Kush is now the backup C with Corbett gone. If Teller is better physically - and I think he looks much more physical - and is "ready" mentally, now is the time to supplant Kush as a starter and let him (Kush) prepare to be the backup C/LG/RG.

My major concern is continuity. Blocking schemes can be learned on paper and you can execute that in a bubble. But where the continuity comes in is what the players around you do in those situations. The OL is a unit that must work in unison with each other. I don't believe you can learn that without playing in games with the OL as a unit.

I mean just give this some thought. When it comes to your DL, players rotate in and out. Sometimes certain situations cause you to change your DL line up. You rotate players in and out to give starters a breather and keep them fresh. But if you look at your OL, that doesn't happen. You may add an extra lineman ih jumbo packages such as a short and goal or short and third for extra run blocking, but all five of your OL starters play the entire game.

There's a reason for that. If you look at the Seattle game, you'll notice with the exception of Hubbard, all the performance numbers of the OL were greatly improved. That improvement came over time. It comes from the chemistry of your OL playing as a unit.

Now I'm not saying the OL is a great unit. They certainly aren't a highly rated OL and they do have their physical limitations. It's not like they can't be improved upon because they can. But the numbers indicate that as far as their ability will take them, they are becoming and performing better as a unit.

We had a new OL coach at the beginning of the season. With that comes changes. Those changes take time for the OL to learn to implement. The OL performance numbers from the Seattle game show they are beginning to be able to work together to implement those new changes.

It would seem counterproductive to me to try and make major changes just as the numbers indicate things are beginning to get better. The familiarity that these players have accomplished by playing together for the last six weeks and all of the pre season can not be duplicated over the bye week.

It just seems like a very flawed idea from my perspective other than maybe the possibility of Hubbard. His numbers indicate you wouldn't really lose much by replacing him. Even at that I wonder.

I agree with everything you posted there...and they MUST know those things as well. If they are even thinking about changing more than one position, they are acknowledging that the OL is under-performing.

I think Teller and McCray/Forbes were the preferred duo since TC ended...but they didn't know the system or even where is the bathroom.

Kush is a career backup...Hubbard is probably a Guard and has been pretty bad. I don't think changing both of those guys together and at the same time is out of the question.

My thoughts on replacing all these people is who is going to replace them?

Replacing spoiled whole milk with spoiled skim milk isn't any good.

I guess at this point we'll just have to see how it all plays out.

I'm still not convinced that MKC's "source" even knows what they're talking about. lol

She calls me a few times a week, so she has the inside scoop my friend.

What does she call you?

Sir.

She has manners. She sure isn't calling me baby.

Hopefully you'll get your wish and that will change.

I think that Forbes would be our RG if he hadn't gotten hurt. I think that there's a chance he becomes our RG if he is physically able to return after week 8. (and I believe that he will be activated if healthy)

I think that Njoku could be the other to return. He opted not to have surgery on his wrist so he could potentially return after week 8.

If these 2 return, it could be a big pick me up for 2 of our more troubled units. (blocking and receiving)

Putting my tinfoil hat on, maybe there was a reason Higgins didn't play a snap on Sunday.

Cordy Glenn is feuding with the Bengals over treatment for his concussion and has requested they release him. Too bad we never trade with Cincy (except for when we do and the fax machine "misfires").

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cordy...for-concussion/

Eifert? Really? That is a surprise to me. Heard any price tag? Williams may price himself out of Dorseyland.

This is why I love Dorsey.

He knows the other team he calls is gonna leak the story to the media, so he calls every team and now we have no idea who we're targeting. Smart.

Eifert played 14 games over the past 3 seasons. He has played 6 this year, so he is about due for a season ending injury. I am not hoping for this, but the odds are against him finishing this season.

How about Cordy Glenn (OT from Cincy) ... rumors are he asked for release

Yeah, I know. I posted it 4 posts above yours. Good grief.

my bad, i only saw the one about Eifert