DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A look at the roster

j/c:

I don't think the Browns issues are due to lack of talent. Just my opinion.

That's not an opinion. It's a fact.

The Browns issues are between the ears of the coach and QB.

I think if you take another look I defined it as when he was under "any type of pressure". That was his tendency under that condition. Teams learned that if and when you can get a little pressure on him, that's his go to move.

If you can show me that wasn't his automatic reaction to pressure last year I'd love to see it. I'd be willing to bet that you would find when they got pressure on him, rolling and or throwing to his right covers a high percentage of those plays.

And maybe some of the other player's, too. The comment Freddie made about the Browns being a "group" and teams like Seattle and New England being "teams" really bothered me.

One one hand, it is a type of statement that could alienate his players. On the other hand, what if it is true? The repercussions for that would be immense.

I hate saying this because I love Myles, but he is always talking about being Defensive Player of the Year. I would rather say that he is only focused on winning the Super Bowl. And Myles is one of more level-headed, intelligent, and high-character guys.

What if we have a team w/way too many individuals?

I am not saying that as a fact, but I've begun to wonder due to the team's performance and some of the comments we hear.

Its surely a possibility. And a risk when you bring in so many "outsiders". I say "outsiders" as in free agents and traded players. But I agree, with the amount of talent and big names we have now, that's a risk.

I can see the concern for Freddies comments as well - will the team push back against him. But I *think* (only my opinion) that he is hoping those comments will drive home with the team. I took it as a challenge to the team to step up and come together.

You very well could be right, or it could have been what I was thinking at first - we will only know as the season goes on. But I the thoughts did cross my mind when I listened to that press conference.

You need to start plugging Kareem Hunt into your experiment.

No one has said that or even insinuated that. The Browns unquestionably have a ton of talent...with a great deal of that carrying over from last year.

My most recent point is about the hype of the new talent infusion. At this point in the season and in production, the talent hasn't been any better and might be a little less...while still being plentiful.

When non-Browns fans say "What's wrong with your Browns. They brought in all that new talent and aren't doing as well." Where do you start to respond? I think the perception out there is that we brought in "all these new weapons". And that isn't accurate.

OBJ hasn't had the stats...but football fans know and see the impact he has whether catching a ball or not. However, he's the only offensive "weapon" we brought in (until Hunt can play) and we've lost offensive weapons in Higgins, Njoku and Duke.

We've lost more offensive weapons than we've gained thus far. NOTE: I'm not stating this in defense of any player, coach or GM. I'm focused on the hype about bringing in "weapons" versus a look at the gameday-active roster.

I think we have to be real careful about reading too much into Freddie's comments. We have some new players, mostly new coaches and a lot of young talent. We shouldn't compare ourselves to teams that have long-tenured coaches and front offices that have had the same culture and systems for many years. We aren't there yet and still won't be there at season's end. JMO

Add to that we've rolled over in 3 of the 5 games when faced with in game adversity and I think it's a legit concern. I don't mind Freddie pointing it out. If that type of remark doesn't motivate players and instead alienates them, then get some different players.

I keep going back to something Baker has said more than once..."we thought this was going to be easy"...I don't think the team knows how to respond to getting punched in the mouth. If they are too soft to respond positively to some criticism then we don't have the right people in the locker room.

Who is our veteran leadership?

The issues go far beyond that. That statement is an over simplification to blame coach and QB. Teams win as a team and lose as a team.

This team changed offensive and defensive schemes this past off season instead of staying consistent. That leads to players thinking instead of reacting. This team needs consistency.

I agree the team needs consistency.

However I disagree it's the team that is screwing up, at least from a percentage perspective. The three most important people in any organization is the owner, coach, and QB. We know the history of the owner so we are relying on 2 out of 3 with the coach and QB. They have the biggest impact on the game. We have a rookie coach who spends game days trying to make a point instead of trying to win a game. We have a QB who is going through a massive slump, has admitted he thought it was going to be easier, and came into the season a little full of himself.

Are the other guys making mistakes? Sure. But if our coach and QB can be better, the wins will come.

He might get to play Cincy 3 times this year.

SUPERBOWL! But I didn't even know we needed a DT, I thought we needed an OT, specifically an LT.

We need a run-stuffer this weekend? This guy looks to be huge. Can he play?

Intersting question. Bitonio, Landry, Schobert? Kirksey's injured. It would be nice if Vernon or Richardson contribute. Mitchell/Randall of the db's?

I hate speculating on who is a leader in the locker room. Unless you are present in the locker room frequently, from the outside it won't be seen.

I would definitely say Randall leads on the field, I can't see that changing once he is in the locker room.

j/c:

After beating the Jets, Myles Garrett was on the on-filed post game show. They were asking him a series of questions and one of them was "Who are the leaders on your team?"

He said "me." He then said Baker on offense. He paused for a few moments and then said Kirksey. After another beat or two, he named Vernon.

The folks that were interviewing Myles had odd expressions on their faces. It was pretty apparent that this team is lacking good leadership.

Personally, I think Landry should be the leader, but I have a feeling that was taken away from him.

Taken away?

I remember that being awkward. It's actually on youtube since it was MNF... about the 1:30 mark.

Hard to tell if he was just trying to think of the "three" he was asked for or being complacent about leadership.

It has seemed to me that Jarvis has shied away from a leadership role. What's your theory?

Thanks for posting the video. I thought it was awkward when I watched it.

I had the order of Vernon and Kirksey mixed up, but that was pretty accurate for an old fart like myself.

Yeah, he looked fairly uncomfortable all the way through. First time on the MNF stage maybe? I tend to forget he's still just a kid lol.

He's a very introspective individual. Not very demonstrative.

I brought that interview up because I think this team is lacking leadership. It should be Landry and Kirksey in my opinion, but it is what it is on O and Kirksey is hurt. Someone mentioned Randall, but that dude is one of the bigger head cases in the league. Good player, but he should not be a leader. And I am not saying he is. I was wondering about Richardson. He has a strong personality.

I was thinking about this as well earlier in the season. Why aren't we hearing about Landry? Well, we were hearing about him all the time last year because of Hard Knocks, and now that's not in the Berea anymore.

Point is, who's to say that Landry isn't still leading... we're just not hearing about it?

Did you forget about all the references during TC about who the undisputed leader of this year's team is? It wasn't that long ago.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. I vaguely remember various talking heads mentioning that Baker (as the starting QB) is the leader, but I don't really put much into that without something solid to back it up.

I'm fine with Baker being A leader, but I can't see him being THE leader at this point. I also don't see Landry suddenly shying away from a leadership role from last season to this one. Especially with him being one of the few (or only) pass catchers that's moving the needle in games lately.
My view is mostly my own opinion so, as always, take it for what it's worth. But it makes good sense to me.

The leadership hoodoo is just a way of explaining something that no one has an explanation for. If we win ten games in a row no one will be talking about who the leader is/isn't.

I played and coached and having players who are good leaders is far from being a hoax, or "hoodoo" as you put it.

But you started the whole dialogue as a way to passive aggressively trash Baker.

Jarvis had leadership taken away from him. LOL

Having good leaders is great. Knowing who they are and how they affect the team is totally different.

And making generic comments that are not applicable is something else altogether.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that this team lacks veteran leadership from players who have played on successful teams or even say our coaching staff is similar in that regard.

Browns OL Drew Forbes has been designated for return from injured reserve and returned to practice today. He suffered a knee injury in the team’s preseason finale against the Detroit Lions and was placed injured reserve on Sept. 2.

The Browns have 21 days to activate Forbes or he must remain on the injured reserve list for the remainder of the season. Upon activation, he would be eligible to return for the team’s Week 10 game against the Buffalo Bills.

Forbes, a rookie out of Southeast Missouri State, was drafted by the Browns in the sixth round (189th overall) of the 2019 NFL Draft. He started one of four preseason games for the club this year.

Allowing players to return from the IR is one of the smartest things the NFL has done in recent years. I would like to see it expanded to allow all players return after eight weeks and not just two guys.

Drew Forbes was moving up the depth chart before he got hurt so it’ll be interesting to see how the team uses him going forward. The spot he was challenging for was right guard but most don’t see that spot as a problem at this point. I wonder if Forbes will get a shot at one of the tackle spots.

Forbes will be our startinf RG befors the season ends. Take that check to the bank.

I agree it's great, the problem with making it UNLIMITED, is that some coaches (aka Bill Belichik) will use it to store 30+ guys and have a whole new completely fresh NFL team ready to go for the 2nd half of the season :-P

You know he would. There's gotta be at least 10 NFL rules specifically because he found ways to break the old ones.

The NFL needs a "disabled list" like baseball and a better-protected, more-flexible practice squad to use with that disabled list.

From what I'm gathering, Forbes is going to compete at RT and it's just a matter of time before Teller takes over at RG. They are both much more physical guys...it's getting colder...and Hunt will be back soon.

With the trade deadline approaching:

We have (5) DTs and (7) WRs with depth at CB and a physical DE we aren't bothering to use...somehow (Avery)...not to mention a STUD RB who we may not even get around to using (Hunt).

So...first off...NO!...I do not want to trade away our good players or good depth. But...if JD thinks we need OL or TE or DT...he's got some guys/room to deal with.

How does some of this depth make future draft picks a little less appealing when taken in consideration of what ails us right now? I'll be stunned if JD doesn't make a trade...not disappointed per se...but stunned.