DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Patriots 27 Postgame Thoughts

Public image is important to him. He’s worked hard to restore credibility to the team. With kitchens at helm it’s starting to be lost. I’m curious how long before he meddles

Not pinning all the problems on that, though play-calling is spotty at times, and in-game decision making is definitely questionable at times. I'm saying I'd expect a new OC before I'd expect to see Freddie fired if for no other reason than to free him from some of the responsibility.

What does that accomplish?

The in game decision making is the worst I've seen. The challenges and timeout usage is so bad I have to wonder if Kitchen is just in over his head on gameday that he can't focus on making sounds decisions.

Rookie head coaches who have no head coaching experience and who call their own plays is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

Takes some pressure off. Gets us a more "standardized" offense. It allows him time to grow as a coach. I'm not saying it's THE answer. I'm saying that's a move I would expect Dorsey to make before an outright firing. But who knows? With this team, anything is possible, and in fact, the least likely the scenario the more likely that is the thing that happens, so it's possible we'll wake up tomorrow with Dee as the new HC.

Yes Chubb had a couple of fumbles early on. Whether you blame it on dumb luck or him being careless, it doesn't change the fact that he still managed to produce and more than make up for it.

God help him if he's asked about it in a presser and he gets all indignant and defensive about anyone criticizing his decision.

Other teams play chess while we play plastic stacking rings.

Sean McVay
Matt LeFleur
Kyle Shanahan
Frank Reich
Doug Pederson
Matt Nagy
Sean Payton

and more. . .

I am putting on a tinfoil hat.

I feel like Dorsey is way too smart to commit to a noobie HC.

I feel like he had a plan. And the plan didnt matter who was our HC was this year. Dorseys guy will come in next year. Because of prior commitments or whatever.

Dorsey is a genius. He has a plan.

Who it is remains to be seen.

There will be lots of speculation.

/nostradamus lol

When the game was 17-0 in the first half, I said to my wife: Browns can come back in this game of they feed Chubb. Those two fumbles didn't change the fact that NE had zero answer for him most of the game. Our run blocking was opening Mack truck-sized holes, and the running game was softening their pass D.

Stupid penalties, head-scratching game management, and lack of discipline sank this team today.


This was a winnable game for a team with its crap in a pile.

Every member of the coaching staff is on probation, you have to do better.

I can’t get over the intentional penalty on fourth down. I can’t believe Kitchens confirmed it in the press conference. At least lie about it. Nantz and Romo were literally left speechless when the sideline reporter told them what happened. What is the thought process? Can someone play devil’s advocate and try to explain it to me?

I think the biggest mismanagement came late in the game when due to Chubb crushin' it the Pats were forced to change what they were doing on defense and stacking the box. I was only able to listen to the game but Jimmy Donovan said the Pats were going to a single high safety look. How with the receiving talent we have (and it sounded like our WRs were catching balls today) do we not take advantage of that?

Simple. Freddie was fired because he was innovative. We just don't realize it yet, but soon a lot of NFL coaches are going to be doing it.

SMH How is it that you don't decide until it's 4th and long and the punt team is on it's way out that you want to go for it? He should have already decided on before the ball was snapped on 3rd down. He should have already decided it was 4th down territory at the beginning of the drive!

J/c

The idiotic challenges, awful timeout usage, penalties, etc ... it just seems like Freddie is swimming in the deep end when he honestly has never been out of the kiddie pool

You cant look like this at nearly the halfway point. Fred is treading water...

exactly ... someone said it very simply: We aren’t getting better

We have one in Monken. I think what we will see first is him calling plays, allowing Freddie to focus on both sides of the ball.

Kitchens isn't going anywhere before another season at minimum, so people just need to understand that.

Some of the playcalling was sketchy, but overall it wasn't bad. The shuffle pass that got picked might have been a great call that got broken up. I know there isn't any real time for the QB to read that, but he did throw it right to the defender, and I am not really blaming him for that. Who was supposed to block that guy? I just chalk that up as a good play by the other team. That happens.

We moved the ball well, Baker had a good game throwing the ball and the D did a pretty good job on pestering Brady.

Fumbles killed us yesterday.

It's always something.

Nine games left. Win 7. It's probably more unlikely, than likely, but not by all that much. We just faced 3 really good teams. We got killed by one, should have beat Seattle, and could have beaten the Pats yesterday. The Chubb fumbles really hurt, especially the long run. If he doesn't score on that play, we probably score soon after. That would have changed everything.

Lets see what we bring next week.

A shuffle pass in a torrential downpour isnt a good play. Not yesterday, not ever! Coming out passing in the same downpour is never a good gameplan. Ever! That was idiotic and coaching thought it'd fool somebody but they only fooled themselves.

That's not aggressive playcalling it's just unwise.

Postgame thoughts:

We stink.

OBJ is not here to win, that picture of him giving the cleats is worth a thousand words. Ship him out of here.

Our Chubb went flaccid yesterday with the fumbles, has the only player I will give an excuse for, but that's 3 on the year, my eyes are open and watching this now.

Why wasn't Higgins playing earlier in the game?

Freddie has 0 game management skills. He is lost on the sidelines. I have seen JV coaches make better decisions than this bum.

Why the heck were we subbing in and out lineman? Makes no sense. First he says (Freddie) "Im worried about 1 game and a time in the presser" then when asked about this he says "well, I want to give guys playing time so we have depth moving forward" Which is numb nuts? Your worried about going forward, or 1 game at a time?

I don't know if we win 5 games.

Sean Mcvay would disagree with you. Mike McCarthy called his plays and eventually won a SB. Doug Pederson, I believe also was a Rookie HC who does it, and won a SB.

It can be done. It has been done. The problem is, you have to have a sound gameplan and sound coaching staff around you to make it happen. You need someone to be taking other things off your plate. Sean McVay literally has a spotter on the field that watches where he stands and moves him so he doesn't have to pay attention if hes on the field or not. Why we don't have someone in the booth to call down and tell Freddie when to challenge is beyond me. If Freddie wants to call plays, he needs to delegate other things to do so.

Ill tell you why, and its simple. 1. Preparation. The players are not prepared on a weekly basis, either is Freddie.

2. Self Doubt - there has been a few times we have seen this from him. Second guessing himself with timeouts, and challenges, this as well. he has no confidence in his abilities as a coach, and its lost second guessing himself.

I ride motorcycles, the first in the safety class they teach you when getting on a highway is when you look to see if its clear, you either GO and hit it, or you stay back. There is no hesitation. Make up your mind in a split second. GO or NO. Because if you hesitate, SPLAT.

Freddie hesitates.

You give Tom Brady extra shots at scoring, he's use them.

Very odd that Chubb would fumble.. That shovel pass was just bad..

Looks like a better line with McCray at LT.

Too damn many mistakes and Penalties. Too many. You can't win against a quality team like the Pats doing dumb stuff like that.

And yet, even after three turnovers, we were only down by 10... then more mistakes.

He has Dave Giuliani. Maybe Freddie is ignoring him? Freddie looks like he gets caught up in his own emotions on the sidelines and flies off-the-cuff at times.

From Tom Reed on Dave Giuliani....

Kitchens, who plans to retain play-calling duties, joins a growing number of NFL head coaches designating a specific assistant or someone within the organization to help with game management. Dave Giuliani, a Browns senior analyst, will work closely with Kitchens.

Once derided by the old guard, analytics continues to gain traction within the NFL. Giuliani, who also assisted Jackson in a similar capacity, has the trust of Kitchens.

“We’re in constant contact,” the coach said. “He’s a numbers guy. He can take the emotion out of decisions.”

Well, either hes not listening to him, or the guy is awful himself.

1. If hes not listening to him, those calls need taking away from Freddie altogether, Give the flag to Monken, if allowed to even do that IDK.

2. If its Giuliani saying to challenge those plays, fire him.

Just curious-- What does your gut tell you it is?

Me, Im thinking Freddie is going away form his advice. But that's JMO.

After watching Freddie in Pressers, and his attitude towards questions that deserved to be asked, and his responses to them, I don't think Freddie takes to being told what to do.

I think Freddie is in over his head, but I still think Freddies head is in the clouds with ego.

But, we questioned Hue a TON about challenging plays and his decisions as well. That snippit said he worked with Hue as well right? Maybe it is that guy. IDK.

I would agree with you based on the two options presented.

Hue was probably one of the most anti-analytics guys ever.

Regarding Kitchens, I can't imagine anyone with half a brain advising their HC to take a TO, consider challenging a play with very little chance of being overturned, then challenging it to then lose another TO.

This has been done twice this season.

Agree, but I believe if I am not mistaken, it happened once or twice with Hue as well. The same scenario.

This is what happened ----->

6. Taking a delay of game penalty so you can go for it on 4th and 16.

Hell, I think it was done twice this game. Didn't he burn a timeout when he challenged the PI that had no chance of being overturned?

See #5

j/c

Has anyone seen the OL grades from yesterday? How about the secondary’s?

I believe, overall, PFF graded the offensive line pretty badly. I don't know of individual grades, however.

J/C

Someone mentioned Mike McCarthy earlier about a head coach calling his own plays. He is currently not coaching, and I wonder if his name has crossed Dorsey's mind should a change come.

I could also see Monken being fired as a scapegoat at some point. I'm usually not about head coaching changes mid-season, but each we see more things that don't happen consistently on well-coached, disciplined teams. Yesterday all we had to do was look on the other side line to see what discipline and attention to detail looks like.

Saying a team has potential or looks good on paper, usually means a coach is not long for being employed!

Grades aren't out yet, but here is initial comment from PFF on the game...

The Browns were more of the same today, as terrible offensive line play and questionable coaching calls throughout left a bad taste in the viewers’ mouth. This offensive line did a putrid job against a stout New England front that ran stunts all game long that were rarely picked up. Neither of the tackles could hold up against Kyle Van Noy’s bull-rush, and with the consistent 10-12 yard drops by Baker Mayfield, there was no time to throw throughout this one.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-8-pff-refocused-new-england-patriots-27-cleveland-browns-13