DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum MLB "Hot Stove League" thread

With the World Series possibly down to its last game, the MLB off-season is about to begin. Post your trade rumors, transactions, etc, here.

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For starters, MLB.com is reporting that the Dodgers will pursue the Indians' Francisco Lindor this off-season. The names being discussed are expected be from a group of Dodgers' prospects including SS Gavin Luxe, RHP Dustin Mays, C Keibert Ruiz, RHP Josiah Gray, and SS Jeter Downs. Current Dodger SS Corey Seager could also be involved.

https://www.mlb.com/news/sources-dodgers-pursuing-francisco-lindor

I would much prefer to sign Lindor to a long term contract but if we were to trade him the LA Dodgers would be the way to go. They have a lot of really good young talent and a very very deep and talented minor league system.

I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.

But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.

We need a fire sale and for the Dolans to sell the team.

It’ll be a shame to see Lindor in a Dodgers jersey

Well the President and the GM of my Reds both said that there will be a nice increase in the Reds payroll next year so that's good news. They got to find a lead-off hitter and some bullpen help.

j/c...

Just look at the Angels, Phillies and Padres as to what happens when you sign position players to big time contracts. Actually, looking at the list of "top earners" in MLB, you have to go all the way down to Giancarlo Stanton at (10th-14th depending on the website) before you find a position player that made the playoffs this year. And even Yankee fans think he's not living up to that contract. Next highest is Josh Donaldson at #20.

Pitching is what you have to pay for. Number 1 and 2 on the list? World Series Champions Strasburg and Scherzer, who Washington elected to pay instead of Bryce Harper.

Gotta go one more year while the window is still open...
A. The difference in compensation wouldn't change much.
B. Winning the series could be the one wildcard that would entice him to stay.

I agree with you. A couple baseball axioms that come to mind ... (1) when you think you have all the pitching anyone could want, you need more pitching, and (2) good pitching always beats good hitting.

Actually, I think the Indians "window" goes well beyond 2020. They might (probably will) lose Kluber after 2020, but they'll still have Clevenger, Bieber, Carrasco ( ), Civale, Plesac, and Plutko, along with a good group of prospects coming up soon. Our front office seems to have become very good at developing young pitching. Its a really good turn of events that bodes well for the future.

I agree. Sink your money in to pitching.

J/c

It’ll be interesting to see what the Astros do here ... they are set to lose a few key parts IIRC

Gerrit Cole is a free agent. I read that during a post game interview in the locker room, he took off his Astros hat and put on a hat with the logo of his agent, Scott Boros, stating that he was now technically unemployed. A real class act ...

hadn’t read that ... that’s a shame

Indians: Corey Kluber officially back for 2020 season, for now

https://believelandball.com/2019/11/01/indians-corey-kluber-officially-back-2020-season-now/

The Cleveland Indians have officially exercised Corey Kluber’s 2020 option. His name still could come up in trade talks this offseason.
There was no guessing whether or not the Cleveland Indians were going to pick up Corey Kluber‘s 2020 option.

The team said it was going to happen, but the news just recently became official.

Pour one out for Jason Kipnis.

Kluber is set to make $17.5 million this season and has an $18 million club option for 2021. The fact he is under team control through 2021 may have some teams calling about a potential trade this offseason. If he isn’t traded, I suspect the calls will continue up until the trade deadline.

The Indians are in an interesting spot. What happens with Francisco Lindor essentially signals which direction the team will go. If it is clear an extension with him is impossible, his name could come up in trade rumors during the season. If that is the case, moving Kluber and just stockpiling talent could be a move to prevent a massive rebuild that would occur if both players leave with nothing in return.

Losing Lindor would be crushing. But trading Kluber may not have a similar negative effect. He missed nearly all of last season and the rotation never skipped a beat. Guys like Aaron Civale and Zach Plesac still need to prove themselves over a larger sample, but the initial signs were positive.

Then there is the trio of Shane Bieber, Carlos Carrasco, and Mike Clevinger. Put those three up against any other starting trio. Adding Kluber back to the mix is like a bonus.

Trading star players is no fun. Fans are attached and the players have done great things for the team. However, if Kluber is set to be in a declining stage of his career the Indians would be smart to move him.

That is on the team to get a good feel of where he is heading into 2020.

Good for us and Kluber!

Surprised by Tyler Olson
A lefty reliever with some promise
Had a good showing a year ago
Not so great this year but I thought there was an injury issue
Even if not, I still think too soon to give up on him
especially with as much help as our bullpen needs

In award news, Roberto Perez won a Gold Glove for catching, and also the Wilson Defensive Player of the Year award (which is separate from GGs). Lindor also won a Gold Glove for Shortstop. I read that Perez didn't have a passed ball all year, which hasn't happened since the 1930's. That's nuts!

I know that there were a lot of people, myself included, who were worried when the Indians traded Yan Gomes.

I really questioned the Indians over that one ...... and they showed that they knew better than I.

Congratulations Roberto. Well deserved.

Astros used electronic sign-stealing method during title-winning 2017 season, report says

A former Houston player spoke out against an issue that appears to be widespread in baseball

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/astro...on-report-says/

Major League Baseball rules do not allow teams to use electronic technology to steal signs from the catcher and then relay what pitch is coming to the hitter. But there is an ongoing issue in the league with teams stealing signs electronically, according to a report from The Athletic on Tuesday.

While this issue stretches beyond any one team, the Astros are the club most implicated in the report. Many examples in the story come from 2017, when they won the World Series. Former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers spoke on the record about Houston's sign-stealing system at Minute Maid Park, which included a TV monitor with a feed from a center field camera near the dugout steps. Astros players would try to decode their opponents' signs and then alert hitters if an off-speed pitch was coming by banging on a dugout trash can, per the report.

Fiers, who pitched for the Astros from 2015-17, said his former team was "advanced and willing to go above and beyond to win." Here's more:

"That's not playing the game the right way," said Fiers.

[...]

"I just want the game to be cleaned up a little bit because there are guys who are losing their jobs because they're going in there not knowing," Fiers said. "Young guys getting hit around in the first couple of innings starting a game, and then they get sent down. It's (B.S.) on that end. It's ruining jobs for younger guys. The guys who know are more prepared. But most people don't. That's why I told my team. We had a lot of young guys with Detroit (in 2018) trying to make a name and establish themselves. I wanted to help them out and say, 'Hey, this stuff really does go on. Just be prepared.'"

Former MLB pitcher Danny Farquhar also went on the record with The Athletic. Farquhar, who pitched for the White Sox in 2017, recalled how he noticed a banging in the Astros dugout when his catcher called for a changeup. Sure enough, video from a Farquhar appearance backs up his claim (hat-tip to DBITLefty on Twitter for the excellent find):

Remember, there were allegations against the Astros this postseason about whistling when an off-speed pitch was coming.

But this issue isn't just limited to the Astros. The Red Sox and Yankees have dealt with allegations as well. The story makes it clear that most teams in baseball believe the Astros go further than any other team, but this piece is important, too:


One Astros source was adamant: The team should not become the poster child for sign stealing. Not when so much is going on with other clubs that MLB has not stopped, they said.

The Astros lost the World Series in seven games after a franchise-record 107 win regular-season in 2019. In fact, three of their four highest win totals ever have come in the past three years, a stretch that includes their first World Series title and two pennants. Of course, their playoff run was marred a major off-field issue, as assistant general manager Brandon Taubman's was fired after harassing female reporters in the clubhouse. MLB is investigating Taubman, and the league could expand that inquiry into the franchise's sign stealing, according to The Athletic.

Expect the issue of high-tech sign stealing to be a key point of discussion this offseason for Major League Baseball.

Sry had to delete tweet for language.

Astros need to face some severe sanctions for this, like lost draft picks, suspensions, or a very large fine, or a combination of the three things. I guess we'll see whether Commissioner Rob Manfred is as big a lame-o as I think he is.

I saw the breakdown with the can banging, that is CRAZY! lol

if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin

something a little icky about the use of monitors though.

I think if a runner on second is stealing signs, that's fair game, but when you involve electronics, I think you have a real problem.

The #Whitesox say this is just the start of an aggressive winter in hopes of making a playoff push

There can be only one lovable loser in Chicago, and while the Cubs have been over .500 for the past 5 years, they have been the team that could get away with it ..... while the Sox have been under .500 for the past 7, and they cannot get away with it.

Sox shouldn’t be as bad as they are considering their resources and what they had with trade assets

New Royals owner John Sherman was reportedly in line to purchase Cleveland Indians

Nov 21, 2019
By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- John Sherman, a minority owner of the Indians since 2016, has become one of their competitors. Reportedly, he was in line to become their owner as well.

Sherman’s $1 billion purchase of the Kansas City Royals was approved by a unanimous vote from MLB owners on Thursday at their meetings in Arlington, Tex. The Royals and Indians are rivals in the AL Central.

A statement by Indians owner Paul Dolan says Sherman’s minority shares in the Indians will be placed in “a trust that is controlled by an independent trustee” until Sherman is able to sell them.

Dolan added in his statement, "Moving forward, this transition will not alter our organization’s operational approach. We remain committed to our pursuit of winning the World Series, while creating a compelling fan experience.”

The Kansas City Star reported that Sherman, according to MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred, originally joined the Indians ownership group with the idea of becoming the controlling partner. But he gave that up to purchase the Royals.

An Indians spokesman said the team had no comment when asked about that report.

Sherman made his fortune in natural gas while working in Kansas City. Sherman purchased the Royals from David Glass. When Glass bought the Royals in 2000, he paid $96 million, according to Bob Nightengale of Sports Illustrated.

Dolan, after a long search for a minority owner, sold part of the Indians to Sherman in 2016. Sherman’s cash influx helped the Indians sign free agent DH Edwin Encarnacion to a three-year, $60 million deal after the Indians reached the World Series that year.

The 2019 season marked the 20th year that the Dolan family has owned the Indians. Paul Dolan has been the primary control person of the franchise since January, 2013.

The Royals won the World Series in 2015, but they’ve struggled since. They just finished the 2019 season at 59-103, 42 games behind the AL Central champion Twins.

“I’m deeply appreciative of the commissioner’s office and my fellow owners for their confidence and trust in the vote today,” Sherman told reporters at after the purchase was approved. “It’s a responsibility that I’ll take very seriously.”

Said Dolan, “We want to congratulate John and his group on officially becoming majority owners of their hometown Kansas City Royals.”


https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2019/11/...mlb-owners.html

Not a bad return for the owner of the Royals .....

Paid $96 million in 2000, and sells for $1 billion in 2020. (ish)

I'm guessing the Dolan family was looking for $1.3-1.4B for the Indians. Forbes lists their value at $1.2B and the Dolan's paid $320M for them in '99. They are, unfortunately for us, equity-rich but cash-poor.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/cleveland-indians/#38b263436ef3

If you can't afford to keep him, it would be "sinful" not to maximize what you could get in return for him in a trade. The only question is whether that would be now or at the trade deadline next July. I think it would be now.

They better get an all time haul if they trade him before the season.

I don't think the Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips type deals happen any more because the market for Lindor is restricted by the relatively few teams that are willing and able to sign him for the more than $35M per year he will command. But unless the Indians are willing to keep him, pay him, and then lose him to free agency after the 2022 season, it stands to reason that the best time to optimize the return for him is now because any team that trades for him now will at least have him for 2 full seasons.

Yeah the big market Twins really beat up on the Indians last year.

Maybe the Indians should spend money on players rather than pocketing money. Cleveland was in their sweet spot of competing and instead of spending they were trying to trade away players all off-season and went into the season with a horrible outfield.

Not signing Brantley was a failure by the Tribe FO. They stuck w/ him all throughout his injuries and bailed when he was hit FA.

The big marquee bat signings (Harper, Machado, Stanton, Cespedes) haven't really proven to be successful so far or have been major difference makers. Pitching still wins for the most part.

I doubt the Indians, under the Dolans, will ever pony up the cash for Lindor unless they can lineup another successor to ownership to infuse some cash.

I'd like them to see at least make an offer on an Arenado-like deal.

As much as I hate to see money be reason to see Lindor go, I do not despise the Dolans like many. They hire smart people, commit to them, let them do their jobs and provide a consistently good product on the field.

With the ownership routinely vilified locally, you'd think the Indians were losing 100 games every year and the Browns were perennial SB contenders.

I'll be going into my 5th year as a Tribe season ticket holder (1/2 season) and am looking forward to some summer nights at the ballpark.