DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey Cont...

I don’t know enough about him honestly, but maybe others do

We tried that with Chudzinski. He ate dog biscuits as a kid and pretended he was Ozzie Newsome in his front yard.

We're back to searching for a unicorn.

Gave up too early there to probably. Deserved more time.

For that matter, any college coach at a top level program would have to be a moron for leaving for the NFL. You just have way more control over your future.

j/c

People blaming Dorsey for the record to this point is like blaming the General Manager of a restaurant because the chef burnt the Bouillabaisse.

Sure... the GM ordered the finest ingredients they could get. However, the chef dropped the ball in the kitchen.

Sure, its not like the GM hired the inept chef, or traded away already valuable ingredients to bring in some else's recipe that they still don't know put together to make a meal....

Or were fooled by the picture on the menu of the juicy, fresh hamburger, only to be served a deflated piece of trash heaped onto a bun.

That’s the GM’s for hiring an inexperienced chef to begin with.

All the ingredients in the world won’t matter if you can’t come up with a good recipe.

If Freddie can’t stand the heat, he needs to get out of the....kitchens?

Kitchens was the one in the kitchen acting like Jane and cooking like Tarzan.


Also--- It is well documented that I hated the Freddie hire more than just about anyone on the board. I thought we make the wrong choice. However, I understand why they hired the guy they did.

I wanted Freddie to be the OC and Greg Williams to stay the HC. We would have had a ton of swag and tons of discipline.

Cool, so its Dorsey fault for not seeing through that and hiring Jane.

Its not well documentated. This is a message board, not a ESPN interview where the other posters are tuning in to watch you post. Honestly, until right now, I don't think I can I even remember a single post you have made before the one I replied too. That's not a bash against you, you just made it sound like your post are pretty important. No one's are - mine included.

And, even if you thought it was the wrong person or the right person - whoopty hell. You got one right it looks like. I am sure you have backed a loser in the past. We all have. That's the thing with this team, sooner or later, they always burn you. I wouldn't use the fact that you were right about a coach flaming out as a Cleveland Brown employee as a highlight of your acumen. Literally EVERY coach has flamed out as a Cleveland Brown to date. Its not a giant leap on your part to have seen that coming.

Cool story, again. maybe your right, but I would go on a limb and say your wrong. Greg Williams def just got lit up by the Miami Dolphins bro. MIAMI. DOLPHINS. A team literally trying to lose on purpose. . . . yeah, they were disciplined letting a Fitzpatrick throw for TDs left and right.

Glad they still got that "swag" going for them.

FYI, this team has "swag", in fact, too much. And I would argue that's one of the our biggest downfalls so far this year. So, no thanks.

JMO

I just love the retrospect with all these stupid decisions. Those glowing "truisms" that have absolutely nothing to do with making a decision based on facts.

Johnny Manziel - "That's great value to draft him in the 20's after accruing other draft capital."
Fact: Johnny was a BUST as a UFA.

OBJ - "Can't pass on HOF talent, he puts us over the top."
Fact: Team was better off with the size and speed of Perriman, saved salary and gave nothing away to keep him.

Kitchens - "Gotta lock him up or another team steals him after the season, ruining continuity."
Fact: Nobody will want him and you'll ruin continuity when you fire him and start over with a whole new staff.

Only the Browns can make these moves... Can never see the forest through the trees.

To be fair, the part of your post about Kitchens (IIRC) was almost entirely created here on Dawgtalkers. I don't remember reading that anywhere else, much less it being a discussion point by Dorsey et al.

I don't know where it started, but that narrative was everywhere locally (especially sports radio) before the fact... And everywhere nationally after the fact - as if Dorsey really was really the smartest guy in the room.

I agree, and will admit I was one who stated #3.

SMH, we all lost. We will be rebuilding this time next year, tanking for the kid from Clemson.

I guess I can't really speak to the local stuff, as I'm not in Cleveland... but I don't remember hearing anything about that from the national folks.

I am still curious how many people are still erecting that statue for Dorsey and perhaps how many are asking, "hmmmmm, is he doing this right?"

This is precisely what I said earlier in this thread... where's the plan here?

yep, Dorsey’s learned a hard lesson this season ... whether or not he learns, well see

It always amazes me that the blueprint for success is out there and so many don't follow it.

You have to have an ego to get to where these guys have gotten, but it's sometimes that ego that halts success.

People keep forgetting that it's wins that matter.

Fact: Kitchens shrugged off continuity anyway and brought in his own guys, while switching up the playbook and scheme.

Exactly. He made mistakes, he needs to learn. I feel like a lot of people are more angry at him than anyone else. I can't do that. He's shown me enough and I think he CAN right the ship.

One thing though. I'm sick of the bargain-bin shopping for knuckleheads. No more Callaways, Hunts (maybe it'll be fine), Whiteheads, etc... Just do all your usual homework and stop gambling on the iffy/bad character guys. If there's a shadow of a doubt, just don't get that guy.

I'm glad the Haslams have stepped back, shut up, and just write checks now. I like that they are letting Dorsey do his thing, which they should. That said, if I found out they told Dorsey, "No more idiots. Period.", I'd be A-OK with that.

All the talent in the world is USELESS if they cannot learn to play together. This where Freddie has largely FAILED. What exactly was done in the preseason to get this group to come together? Pretty much nothing. The regular season is NOT where you try to figure it out. These guys did NOT put in the work necessary to be up and running on all cylinders. A little less emphasis on endorsements and vacation time and a little more work on actually becoming a football team should go a long way in terms of W's next year. This team still needs to be more accountable to each other AND the discipline needs to be ramped up. I'm not sure Freddie is the guy. It does NOT seem to be his nature. I guess we will see.

playbook and scheme are the same. that's the most demoralizing part.

A lot of people seem to be saying this and insisting we are still using Todd Haley's playbook. I am not buying it. But if we are then perhaps that's part of the problem.

Why would we still be using it? He's been gone for two (part) seasons...

I think we started out the season with the antithesis of the Haley-Kitchens-Zampese playbook that was successful the latter half of last season.

I also think, since our disastrous start, we've been slowly adapting back to more of what we were doing last year.

Couldn't tell you. But that's what people are believing.

because FK said we are
because FK made Monken learn last year's playbook

JC

I don't know who's playbook were using but I doubt it's Todd Haley's. Not exclusively anyway...

Throughout camp there were numerous rumblings about Kitchens not being happy with the progress of Monken's "install". Including a report that there was discord between FK and TM and Freddie was "interjecting" himself into the process... At that time Monken called the install a "work in progress"... and we were on package three of eight.

Around that time, the questions were pouring in about OBJs absence and how things would play out.
What do you want to see from OBJ?
Freddie: "I just want to see him"
What is he missing by not being here?
Freddie: "A lot -- the offense"

Meanwhile, Baker is trying to learn "the offense" with the likes of Damion Ratley, Dorian Baker, Jaelen Strong, Blake Jackson and Rashard Higgins.

Monken said "it’s been a challenge for Mayfield and for the offensive installation without the top receivers on hand" and “you do what you can.”

Not hard to do the math here gentlemen.

What ensued, once it was clearly evident that we were woefully unprepared, was some of Haley's offense, Monken's offense, scratchings from a notebook titled "Plays that Worked 2018", and some trick plays that Baker and the Primadonnas practiced a few times before the season.

A big mish-mosh of incoherent plays that Freddie seems to be pulling out of a hat on Sundays.

"No doubt about it, I gotta get me another hat!"

Bullwinkle

j/c

Maybe I'm just worn-down, but I'm not liking the direction we are heading. While I like the Dorsey/Kitchen personalities and hope they succeed, I would have really liked to see what a Sashi/Pettine combination could have produced...

The Browns are a comedy of errors. It simply can't continue. I think you have to retain Dorsey and give him another shot. Freddie has to go. Freddie's last 4 games...

--Flew his team into a road night game on the opposite coast the day before. Team laid down.

--Inexplicably ran a hurry up at the end of the half from first and goal at the 5 against Seattle with all his timeouts and the lead. This was a season turner and a fireable offense all on its own.

--Three straight turnovers on three straight offensive plays after opening the game in the shotgun with three straight pass calls in the rain.

--Lost to a backup QB who hadn't taken a snap in over three years. His defense quit on him.

...all the while talking down to the media in pressers.

That's quite a four game resume.

I agree ... keep Dorsey for one more try and axe FK

That may be quite severe, but my concern is how do you promote a RB coach to HC in 8 games? Mystifying...

Here's the laundry list of everything wrong with this statement.

* We ran hurry-up the entire first half. Every drive, no exceptions. We were at the LOS at 25-30 seconds on nearly every play and the ball was constantly snapped at 20. Nearly every play.

* This philosophy resulted in our best offense of the season -- three TDs scored and on the verge of a 4th against a solid defense... All in the first half. The very first time our offense played with any flow and had a defense on it's heels.

* We never had a 1st and goal at the 5, or 1st and goal at all, the INT came from outside the 10.

* We only ran one play from the hurry-up inside 4:00 all others were from a stopped clock (2:00 warning, INCs, penalty and one actual huddle).

* There was only one play that we could have taken more time off... the play that resulted in the tipped-ball-INT in the endzone. We snapped the ball with :20 left on the play clock.

* We left :20 on the clock, Wilson scored with :18 remaining and never broke a sweat or even looked hurried. Russell being Russell, as he has 100 times. He would have scored without the "fireable offense".

* This was not a "season turner" or even a game-breaker. The game-breaking plays began midway through the 3rd when Chubb fumbled and continued through head-scratching penalties that made it look as if the game was "fixed".


But Romo foams at the mouth about leaving time on the clock, continuing to talk about it through the 3rd quarter. Fans latch on, the media latch on, and then Freddie being Freddie... "Shoot, I was tryin' to score again!" And the "FIRE FREDDIE NOW" chants begin in earnest.

Dumb statement, he should have let me explain it to the media. Fact remains, everybody on our team probably thought we could score again. The only two plays (up to that point) that stopped us from scoring on every drive was a 3rd and 9 DROP by OBJ (followed by a blocked punt) and an INT when OBJ and Chubb (in the slot) ran into each other like it was the first time they had ever run the play. Baker threw a perfect ball to the spot, no one there but a LB.


The only fireable offense I've seen from Freddie is not using the Seattle game as an exact blueprint for how to run this offense.

I can’t shake the feeling that we needed to keep FK as OC and either keep Gregg or hire a proven HC

And, maybe, we need people to stop "flexing their muscles" and provide that info publicly in order to stroke their ego to try and feel better about themselves.

That would have been my preferred way to go...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here...

You realize that he's done more than that in his career, right?

He has coached RB, TE, and QB ...... and has been associate head coach as well ... in addition to his time as OC.

It's from an ESPN article regarding many topics about the Browns, one of which was the decision between Kevin Stefanski and Freddie Kitchens.