DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Cont.

Probably one of the biggest mysteries for me is why Bakers mechanics are just so awful this year? Last year he was always keeping his feet moving in a way that he could set them quickly. It’s why he was able to complete some pretty ballsy throws on the move

yes and my son did as well.

nah. he will be fine. he nees an offseason and a new QB coach

Coaching. He's lost confidence in OL from this year to last. Seeing ghosts. His own confidence is rattled. Pressing so he is second guessing himself.

Jake Burns did a nice breakdown from Baker last year to Baker this year (as of week 5) if interested in taking a look.

I brought this up at the beginning of the year. someone messed with his mechanics and they are all over the place.

He looks like he is mimicking Brady too much vs just being who he was.

And it's actually a fairly irrelevant question. Nothing actually prepares you for playing quarterback in the NFL except the NCAA. And often times the systems we're seeing run at the college level doesn't actually prepare you for the NFL.

When it comes to reading D's, especially post snap, usually nobody knows until you're thrown into the fire at the NFL level.

That sure seems like a lot of excuses for a player that's performing poorly.

Getting out of the huddle with less than 10 seconds on the play clock 3/4 of the game, doesn't help either.

There is a fine line between an excuse and an explanation... and it often depends on what a person wants to hear.

I think a lot of it has to do with credibility. A coach doesn't make you, "less accurate". He doesn't make "your footwork worse".

I understand that you can devise a scheme a QB isn't comfortable with. But if people think you can go into your second season by using a very limited playbook and reading one side of the field like he did last year, that's not very realistic.

The film was there and you either expand your O or you fail. Seems either way we failed but the playbook had to be expanded. At that point, the QB you drafted either grows or he stagnates.

Just to play devil's advocate... why not? Mayfield had some of his biggest games in the back half of last season, what is a defense going to learn in the off-season that those defenses couldn't have learned from the first 5-6 weeks of film?

I would also ask the question then that IF Mayfield was so limited last year and only using half the field and making one read and getting the ball out quick... and it was working... why go to an offense that asked him to stand in the pocket every freakin' play and burp the baby for 3.5 seconds waiting for guys to sprint down the field?

Sure, add a few things, throw in a little more complexity, but to say "You had success this way last year but next year, you have to be like Peyton Manning"... that's at LEAST as big a risk of just trying to do what worked last year.

Agreed. The Ravens had success with Lamar running the ball last year. Clearly he can’t make a career of that and would need to get better in other areas. So what has Harbaugh done? He kept a lot of what Lamar is already good at and built him up from there.

It makes no sense to sacrifice wins at the expense of tryin to develop a QB. This is why the Ravens are whoopin people

No, but a coach if doing their job will make sure you keep up with the basics like your mechanics that impact your abilities. Sometimes a young player has to be reminded and kept in check especially if you’ve got a guy who made a college career based on a more raw talent.

I agree 100%

Except... what these kids are learning at age 12 is so much different than what I learned at age 12 especially from reading the field and a throwing mechanics standpoint.

At age 12 they started teaching my son the fundamentals of the triangle stance and throwing in a J and the intricate details of a throwing motion. what to do with the football when you feel the pressure. when to get rid of the ball etc.

As a freshman he had pre-snap reads:
they teach to throw in a box how to read coverages

Basically, in the process of 25 seconds an average HS QB needs to know:
- where the LB's are/are they playing up back are they in a zone or man look.
- they need to know where all of their WR's are going
- they need to know if a RB is staying in to pass block or going out
- they need to decide if the CB's are playing man or zone
- they need to see if the Safties are playing up or back
- They need to know who their hot receiver is
- They need to decide if anyone blitzing
If so, they need to re-adjust the OL to pick up the blitzer or audible out of the play away from the blitz.

What I learned from coaches: post-snap reads are purely the results from your pre-snap reads and film study of opposing teams. - Basically what the QB/OC reviews with you that week about the opposing team.

What I learned in the last 8 years from his coaches teaching him has helped me understand the game so differently from a QB perspective than I would have ever had otherwise.

Ironically, after all of that training and coaching, he quit football because he was average QB/CB and wouldn't have gone on to play college ball anywhere and he has a shot with baseball. So, he decided to put all of his efforts into baseball as a pitcher. He's a senior this year. So, we will see how it all goes.


Kinda off-topic. The kid is throwing 82 pretty regularly as a senior. By the end of the year, he should be around 85-87. What blows my mind is that he may not even be good enough to get a college scholarship. When I was in HS, a kid throwing that fast was drafted in the MLB's. It is crazy to see how much sports (in general) has evolved over the last 20 years.

[i][/i]

I agree with what you say except this bit. After 8 weeks and seeing no adjustment to help Baker, I'm comfortable saying Freddie and Monken are NOT the answer.

Do you remember the Browns running a designed roll out? (Not just against Denver but all year) A bootleg or anything that INTENTIONALLY gets Baker out of the pocket.. I do not.

Now that you mention it..... I don't either.

Me 3... and I've always thought the lack of a couple plays like that is stupid.

Yep, we were saying that during the game at one point too ... our offense seems so limited

Watching the SF game along with a bunch of the discussions going on here regarding scheme were extremely illuminating for me.

We are the anti-SF, in terms of how we execute our offense.

2-2 without Callaway.

0-4 when Callaway plays.

I think Baker would rather get rid of Callaway than OBJ.

I noticed this past Sunday... Seems like Freddie's cheat-sheet keeps getting smaller and smaller. Nothing like the poster board some of these coaches carry.

This Sunday I'm half expecting to just see an index card that reads
PASS
PASS
RUN CHUBB

He can just cycle through the plays as Mayfield stands in the huddle and tells everyone "Go deep!" on all the pass plays.

Not only is there no flow to anything we're doing, there is always some tip-off as to what to expect... Empty backfield on 1st and goal, No Chubb on 4th and 1, etc, etc...

Purp hit the nail on the head... Someone asked if the scheme and playbook were too complicated, he said "convoluted" is the better word.

I think we may have better success if all the plays are thrown in a hat and Freddie just picks them out, one by one.

J/c

In terms of SF ... if we had their offensive scheme, coaching, and play calling we’d be 6-2 or better IMO

That would be presuming that having a week to week time allotment to study a team is the same as having an entire off season to prepare for your opponents. You know your division rivals pretty well. Once the schedule is released, it gives you ample time to break down your out of division opponents for the upcoming season.



Who is saying that's what they're "asking him to do"? Are you and others on this board trying to suggest that the coaching staff is telling Mayfield he can't throw to a check down WR? That he should only concentrate on the long routes? That he shouldn't work through his progressions quickly and find the open WR? If I had to bet I'd say that's not true. I'm pretty sure nobody on the coaching staff wants him to stand in the pocket and hold the ball for 3.5 seconds.



It's kind of odd you say that because that's not even close to what I said. I said they had to "expand on the play book". Which is exactly the same thing you just said only in different words. I'm not sure if people are actually watching the games or not. Because we are doing some of the same things we did last year and running some of the same plays we did last year.

I am puzzled with Baker play this year,I don't think you play like he did last year out of luck, so I went back and watched some of last years games to try and figure it out.

The confidence last year was very visible,but the most noticeable thing is that Baker is chubby now...

His physical form is the thing I noticed the most, he was much more nimble and elusive and was able to scramble with success. he was much quicker. That's what I noticed the most in his game.

I recall an article saying Baker did put on a bit of weight (muscle) in order to better handle the beating of a season. I remember because I've heard of other QBs doing similar stuff for the same reason (Matt Ryan either right before or right after his big season). Somehow, the extra layer(s) of muscle better prepare a QB for the punishment of the season.

I don’t think it’s clear at all that we are running the same plays as last year especially when you look at how little we actually go through a play action fake as compared to last year.

We aren't running all the same plays from last year. We are running some of the same plays from last year.

Indeed, but we’re not running enough of what we did last year to indicate we’re building off of what we did IMO.

I guess your definition is what's confusing me here. So we are using some of last years plays. We've also added more plays, but we're not building on what we did last year? Hopefully you can see the confusion there.

I don’t believe the scheme we were trying to implement initially this season had anything to do with last years late season ‘run’. All you have to do is recall all the questions of ‘why aren’t we doing what we did last year’ when we started to see Baker holding the ball longer and this offense wasn’t moving. Outside of the occasional drive, the only game we saw even close to last year was the Ravens game.

Blame Bakers issues on whatever you feel is the source. He certainly has them. But what’s clear to me is that he is not comfortable with whatever they are trying to get him to do. Logic says that if this scheme is building off of last years, Bakers familiarity and success last year should mitigate to a greater degree his issues this year.

What appears to be the biggest difference to me is that they expected him to start going through his progressions quickly and more of them. Last season it appeared to be more of a "one read, hit your spot" type deal. But as time goes on, your QB must learn to read and react.

As I said earlier, no coaching staff tells a QB to sit in the pocket and hold the ball. No coaching staff tells them not to look for an open WR when your primary target is covered. Nobody told him to abandon the pocket and roll out rather than step up in the pocket. Those are growing pains he will have to overcome. And protecting him from those growing pains is simply delaying the inevitable That's what's happening. But to claim you can just stick with a very basic O that we ran last year for the success of your team for the long haul I find to be very short sighted.

Yet I've seen them do that in games. Quick passes to begin the game. To build some rhythm. Then as things open up, it falls apart. You have to build a system for the long haul. Your QB has to learn to go through progressions and read the entire field. It's simply a part of the maturation process.

That's what they're trying to do here. And Mayfield's ability, or lack there of, will determine the longevity of not only his career, but the career of this coaching staff.

Oh, I agree with you. Simply adding some color behind something that was said.

He looks like he is in a state of panic. I worry that his off the field weirdness is an indication of him coming unhinged. He is under a lot of pressure.