DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey Cont...

Everyone was applauding the moves as if a savior had made them. Now that things are falling flat they are looking for someone to blame.

Such a fickle group.

I can find fault IMO that we had a interim coach in G.Williams that almost instantly turn us in the right direction cause he had this team prepared from day one and he still thought Kitchens was the answer, to me that was a total Browns move and I fault him that he gave up on Williams and giving us a guy that hasn't had this team prepared once in the first 8 game and IMO probably never will .

Compared to what we have had in here, Dorsey is indeed a savior. I think he made the right moves, except for Kitchens, but if he trusts him, then I'm willing to give him more time.

Look at SF last year and this year, we are not that far away.

And we end up with Fred...

Fate, my recollection was it was first and goal from the 5. You can amend it to first and goal. Other than that, everything you state is excuse making because you like to present a different side of an argument. Nothing else I said was wrong.

It's called coaching and situational awareness. It's supposed to come from the coach. The team plays with no confidence because the coach's decision making doesn't warrant it.

So your saying that even if he proved he was worthy to turn OUR 2-31 team around in just 1 week he shouldn't have been retained because of other teams told us not to ...lmao.

The results are far different this year. That much is clear. And Williams may be the reason why. I did like the discipline side that Williams brought to the team.

But we also have to consider that we not only changed who the HC was, but we also pretty much completely changed the entire coaching staff. The problem may lie within the ranks of those changes.

I can absolutely fault Dorsey for his HC hires.

It looks like baker will be on his 4th HC in 2 seasons.

Didn't particularly care for the Kitchens hire and hated the Zeitler trade as we we traded one of the top Guards in the league for a guy who is being paid $15.5 mill a year yet averages less then 8 sacks a season.

There was never a 1st and goal. We had a 1st down at the 12 yard line. There was one play run without draining the clock. All other plays inside 4:00 were either with the clock stopped or the two where we actually huddled.

Bottom line, we ran no-huddle-hurry-up for nearly the entire half, to great success. After a run on 1st down we hurried to the line to run another play... Not because Freddie was too stupid to drain the clock, because that was what was working the entire game... Mayfield under center, moving receivers around, changing protections, it was a thing of beauty. We were trying to score a TD, not to self-sabotage.

We're at the line with 20 seconds, Landry out wide with single coverage as a LB is waltzing that way and pointing. I guess Baker could have waited longer for the coverage to adjust to Landry, I mean, Weeden probably would have. If not for a ball going off Landry's hands and being picked by a defender, we would have scored our 4th TD.

You're diagnosing Mayfield doing exactly what every team wishes it's QB could do, and turning it around, to blame a coach for something that has nothing to do with the play-calling, the loss, or anything else. All over 20 seconds that had nothing to do with Seattle scoring it's half-ending TD.

These aren't excuses, they are the facts pertaining to what happened in the game, I just watched it again this morning. You're talking about "recollection" and building on a false narrative created by Tony Romo's grade-school-style game analysis and the media and fans following suit.

Again, all of this (really, the entire "Fire Freddie" narrative) snowballed because our "awe shucks" coach made the stupid statement in the PC. What took place on the field is exactly what should have, I mean, if you're at all interested in playing winning football.

If you want to color me clueless or say I'm making excuses, at least go watch the final 4:00 of the half first.

Amen.

I think we were sold on the idea that Baker was magic and Freddie carried the wand. We thought everything was going to be easy. Further down the flowchart (and what is seldom talked about) is the fact that Gregg would have promoted his son to DC. When we looked at available talent at the coordinator level, we knew that we could find much more talent at DC, hire a high-profile OC, and everything would be peaches and cream because Freddie would be surrounded by a strong staff. Couple that with the mentality that we would likely lose Freddie in one year and it seemed a no-brainer.

We totally ignored the fact that these were major structural changes all based on unknowns and limited information. We thought we were on the fast-track, instead we were authoring a train wreck.

Actually considering that Williams righted the ship in 1 week and should have been retained him so they knew if it was a fluke or he was the real deal for the Browns that's all Im saying.

How many other teams were considering FK for their HC positions? I may be wrong but IIRC there weren’t any. So if we apply the logic equally, we shouldn’t have promoted FK either.

I understand the reasons in favor of taking a gamble on FK. I really do even if I didn’t think at the time it was worth it. Regardless he was hired to win sooner than later. At the core of it all is this team has no discipline whatsoever and that lies directly at the feet of FK. All the problems keeping this team from winning are all discipline related: the penalties, the poor routes, the poor tackling, Bakers lack of proper mechanics, the teams over level of being ill prepared.

What is the optimal number of changes to the 53 man roster in one offseason? How many do the Super Bowl teams make. I think there is a right answer.

It's somewhere in the math, ( There is "1" set of rookie age group to enter the league per year, (not more than 1, or zero).
first contracts average 1, or 4, or 5 years, and players on a 2nd contract have a career with the first team for an average of 7 years.
The number of players on the roster is 53 players, so to get the optimal amount of continuity, over time,
There is an optimal number of changes to the 53 man roster per one offseason.

I do recall that most people thought OC would have been more appropriate for Freddie, but there was a fear that he’d do so well this year that someone would snatch him up after this season to be the HC elsewhere.

one of the few times a year when it's good to be a browns fan,The after Halloween History Rewrite.
They said,he said,she said.
At the end of the day,the reasoning behind a screw up is irrelevant.It's looking like "King John" (that has always cracked me up)has made one,possibly two major screw ups.That's a scary thought.

I wasn't trying to say you are wrong. I can't say I know the answer to what went wrong.

I'm just saying there were a lot of moving parts during the off season. It wasn't just a HC change. It was pretty much the entire staff. So while you may very well be right, I'm not willing to take that leap.

I know you didn't imply that you were right and I was wrong and you were just giving me a very fair minded opinion , but I bet Dorsey is kicking himself in the butt right now because of the stupidity of FK.

So it boils down to me being wrong on what down and distance it was. The greater point still stands. It was a dumb strategy. The reason Romo pointed it out was because it was a dumb strategy.

There are no two ways around it. It was idiotic and I believe that series of decision making did the season in...and likely Freddie.

This is very, very simple...the Browns had the ability to score and increase their lead before the half without leaving the opposing team any time to do the same...a smart coach does it every time. Oh and btw, the opposing QB was Russell Wilson.

I can't even believe someone is defending this.

It's pretty complicated. Nevermind.

Even if you’re having success in a hurry up/ faster paced offense, the smart move it is to slow your roll and control the last 3 to 4 minutes to the extent possible in order to solidify your momentum going in to the half. Freddie wanting to score twice in that little bit of time came off to me at least as prematurely trying to run up the score.

Yo, I understand the philosophy. I'm not arguing whether that is the ideal approach.

BUT. If all of your success is predicated on diagnosing the defense, moving receivers, changing protections and making the defense show their cards. And it has worked to great success the entire day (this would have been your 4th TD on a day where you ran the hurry-up exclusively, if Landry could simply catch the ball). Then let me ask, what's more important - scoring a TD or 20 seconds of clock?? If you say it's the latter, I say you're playing losing football.

What Freddie said was dumb, off the top of his head, and basically a false premise... we weren't scoring, stopping the Hawks, getting the ball back, and scoring again in 1:25.

Done hijacking the thread, my apologies to all.

i remember reading the Steelers and New England turn over about 75% of their roster every 3 years and like 90-95% every 5 years.

Freddies said a lot of really moronic things so far ... I can’t believe how stupid he sounds at times ... he can’t be as dumb as he sounds sometimes ... he just can’t be ... he sounds “can’t tie your shoes stupid” at times .... *L* ...

I love the man and hope he turns it around ... but damm does he make it hard to keep the faith sometimes ...

Seemingly absolutely inflexible and that's a bad trait for a coach or ANY leader.

#FreeToddMonken

How u think he’s gonna help Bake or does this all fall on the plays being called? ...

I hope he gets his act together too, but right now he's sounding like this:

you know whats crazy? OCD basically got killed by the board for saying the same thing about freddie....

diam, I think I have listened to every press conference of Freddie that has been posted on browns app since training camp. I do not think Freddie sounds moronic or like an idiot at all. He sounds like a guy who probably did not major in public speaking at ua trying to have a friendly conversation with the reporters. He does not say some things like a pro speaker would but who cares.

three other thoughts. It has amazed me how browns “fans” have turned on our coach in less than two months . Amazing to me that a browns “fan” would get on here and say he is rooting for buffalo tomorrow. and it is amazing/amusing how many browns fans on here who watch the browns play their games from a stool in a bar or a couch or easy chair in their living room who think they know more about drawing up a play, building an offense, making an offensive game plan or building an offensive scheme than our coaches who have been doing that at the highest level there is for many years.

One other thought diam. Last year Freddie was heralded as a genius for what he did with our offense after becoming oc. According to folks on here he must have take stupid pills during the off-season because now he is an idiot. I don’t buy it at all. Some players are not performing at the level they need to for us to succeed. They need to pick it up!

Let’s start the second half with a win tomorrow!!!

With u on the win tomorrow ....

To clear a few things up ....

I wasn’t talking about his speech .... i was talking about things like:

- saying he was in the hurry up in the red zone with less than 2 minutes left was because he wanted to score twice ...

- being so disorganized he has to take a 5 yard penalty to make it 4th and 16th ...

- having Nick on the bench on 4th and inches ....

- running 4 plays from inside the 10 on multiple occasions with empty backfields ...

- being worse than Hue at halftime and end of game time mgmt. ..

Thats what I’m talking about ... not his speech ... i haven’t listened to a presser since the season started ... listened to almost all of them since the day he got the j0b .. i love listening to him ..

I’m still 100% behind Freddie .... but im gonna call a spade a spade .... he’s outsmarting himself regularly ... WTF ... 4th and inches ... hey Nick .... i need some company over here on the bench .... MORON .... that’s INEXCUSIBLE and Freddie’s smarter than that ....

I don’t blame Freddie for Bake being innacuratte as all get out .... i dont blame Freddie for OBJ dropping multiple first down passes ... i don’t blame Freddie for G-Rob getting kicked out of a game for WHIFFING on kicking someone ... dude WHIFFED!!!

Plenty has gone wrong that doesn’t fall on Freddie ... overall his game plans have been pretty good ... but he has STUPID SPURTS in games .... how does going empty backfield inside the 10 for the entire series not once but at least twice ... in what world does that make sense? ... and oh by the way .... our QB is strugging bigtime period but hes been atrocious in the red zone ...

Freddie has his own issues .... and there not minor ones .... still 100% in his corner but I’m not gonna shy away from his faults .....

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo ...

I called it early... people wanted proof. I actually give him credit for being smarter than I thought. Still not a high bar.