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Folks have raised this issue in a few different threads and it seems to warrant its own thread - if only to give people an opportunity to bash Notre Dame and/or Charlie Weis. So, here it is: Notre Dame did not lose many star players between 2006 and 2007. Darius Walker is gone, but he wasn't even drafted, and a couple linemen were taken in the draft, but Santucci is on the practice squad: 2007 ND NFL Draft Class Brady Quinn, QB, Round 1 Victor Abiamiri, DE, 2 Ryan Harris, OT, 3 Derek Landri, DT, 5 Mike Richardson, CB, 6 Dan Santucci, OG, 7 Nedu Ndukwe, S, 7 Not much offensive talent was lost - and certainly enough remained from last season to be consistent. Analysts are citing the awful draft classes for the juniors and seniors, but Quinn had to rely on this poor talent and still led the team to two BCS bowl games. Experts say Notre Dame lacks talent among juniors, seniors So, can we use the sheer drop in Notre Dame's performance as an indicator of the sheer ability that Quinn possesses? It looks to me like he took the Irish to two bowl games by himself.
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Didn't they lose Szjmarzda? (sp?  ) I believe that was Quinn's favorite target...
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LOL...This outta be good... All I gotta say is Quinn goes from playing like crapola his first 2 years to this... 37 TD's and SINGLE DIGIT PICKS... To 39 TD's and 7 Picks...Or close to it...(LAZY) In THAT offesne that's an ASTOUNDING improvement...And YEAH...Weiss had alot to do with it... And the Browns are gonna be a better for the efforts... 
Go Browns!!!
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It's made me think twice about how I viewed Quinn.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't follow all the inns and outs of college ball but I read in the article you linked, and in other places that Notre Dame has not had good recruiting in years. The fact that they are Notre Dame isn't enough . . . That is why they stink. Quinn, if he was still there, . . . good query . . .
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Legend
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Nobody thought the talent around Quinn was great.....maybe it was horrible and he made them better based on what we are seeing this year.
Didn't Weiss sign a 10 year deal.......whoever made that decision has to be getting some funny looks right about now.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think it might have had a good deal to do with their successes.
I think more of it is Weis' transition to the college game. He didn't have to recruit in the NFL. So while he might be a good coach, he might not be as apt to getting the talent he needs at ND. Keep in mind he won with Willingham's guys.
I really think they let him go too soon. Look at what he's doing in Washington...the man is a heckuva coach.
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Legend
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I'm no expert on ND, but I understand that it's not so much what they lost but the youth of the team,,, My understanding is that the new recruting class is one of the best in College ball,,, so it's probaly only a matter of time... or is suppose that's the thinking down there..
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IMHO, I think the one of the reasons the Irish are in the position they're are is because of poor recruiting and not having a red-shirted QB ready to step in for Brady. Because of last season success Weiss did a lot better but still he's not getting enough of the real 5 star rated kids to keep up with the football factory teams, either because of stringent academic standards or they're just not attactive or mystic school as they were in the past.
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Well, last year they didn't have the greatest pass protection.....and they lost part of the line...so the guys that weren't good enough last year are playing this year...so now there's even less pass protection.
Yeah, you gotta have some tallent at the 'pretty' positions...but us Browns fans know better than most that you NEED good OLinemen or ya gonna look like dopes.
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Probably has some to do with him... he was a 4 year starter... heck of a leader on that team... now they are being led by a freshman who has a ton of talent, but there's a lot of youth on that team.
<><
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Quote:
Didn't Weiss sign a 10 year deal.......whoever made that decision has to be getting some funny looks right about now.
Peen,from my understanding,the Jr's and seniors he inherrited from the previous regime. ie...not his guys,not his fault.
And I've also heard that this freshman draft class is top 10. I don't know that much about ND's program. Actually,I just like to rib their fans for the fun of it. I got nuthin' against ND.
But it very well could be that Weiss will serve a dual purpose for them. Not only be a good coach,but help them a lot in recruiting better talent. Like I said,I'm not that into the ND thing so I can't say for sure.
But from everything I've heard,his recruiting has been great and he's just going to have to suffer through the juniors and seniors he inherrited for now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Didn't Weiss sign a 10 year deal.......whoever made that decision has to be getting some funny looks right about now.
I was listening to ESPN radio yesterday and I think it was Cowherd who was interviewing Tim Carter and asking him just that question. If Charlie Weis was really an upgrade over Ty Willingham, and if the season contines in this direction if he is likely to be fired.
Tim's response was enlightening. He said that there was a behind the scenes thing with Ty that he didnt want to go into but that Ty basically wanted out too. Then he talked about how Ty was a more private individual and didnt like to speak publically or meet with alumni, while Charlie loves to talk and spend lots of time with alumni, especially after games and telling stories about his days at Notre Dame and in New England.
Cowherd concurred that personallity wise, Ty was not a good fit for a program that gets the media attention it does, and that Charlie is a natural fit, for that part of the job.
For what its worth.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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Legend
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I like Ty as a coach, but he just never seemed comfortable there... I think he is happier where he is... and I thought Weiss was a good fit at ND... and personally I don't think race had a thing to do with it
<><
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I am sure they will turn it around. They have too much going for them to remain in bad shape.
And I hope they do....Notre Dame is college football....or was at any rate. I don't like to see old traditions die....and I really mean that.
I am a Gator fan, but I didn't like to see Bama in the dumps...that's Bama....National Championships, the Bear, Roll Tide Roll.
It just wasn't right they weren't near the top.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I agree that race was not the issue, more personality...IMO
When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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Quote:
Didn't they lose Szjmarzda? (sp? )
I believe that was Quinn's favorite target...
He graduated, but was not drafted so didn't turn up in the research the other poster did. He signed a big deal in baseball IIRC.
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 I got to agree here. I was a huge hater at drafting him at #3 over Joe Thomas, but we got him anyway. It really makes Quinn look like a stud IMHO. His running back wasn't drafted and his top WR chose baseball over football. I didn't even here about one single O-linemen that he had get drafted (could be wrong).
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McKnight sucked, their running back who's name I always forget was average at best.
Smardjza was the only one good besides Quinn on that team...
The line sucked, the running game was average, the defense was terrible, quinn was very good.
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i think it does, no question, but that's not the only reason that the irish have yet to score an offensive touchdown through 3 games...
some of the irish fans i know around here say that you can tell the leadership in that huddle is completely gone...
quinn never had top notch talent around him like the usc's, ohio state's, lsu's and florida's had and still have...
samardzja was a decent receiver at best, he had great hands, but he was an absolute wuss against any top flight corners (did he even attend the ohio state game?)
he had no running game, and his offensive line was very, very average...
that's why i was so high on him, because he kept it together, and he made a pretty damn nice situation with very little...
think about how he'll do with a blossoming receiver in braylon edwards, an elite tight end in kellen winslow, and an offensive line that is only going to get better... with potential greatness on their left side
quinn took his lumps for 2 years at notre dame, that's why i think he's going to be ready if called upon, he's tough, that's one thing i'm not worried about...
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Quote:
LOL...This outta be good...
All I gotta say is Quinn goes from playing like crapola his first 2 years to this...
37 TD's and SINGLE DIGIT PICKS...
To 39 TD's and 7 Picks...Or close to it...(LAZY)
In THAT offesne that's an ASTOUNDING improvement...And YEAH...Weiss had alot to do with it...
And the Browns are gonna be a better for the efforts...
I don't know if he was 'crappola' his first two years....He seemed to get better every year which is how it is supposed to be.
2006 467 289 61.9 3,426 37 7 146.7 82 71 0.9 2
2005 450 292 64.9 3,919 32 7 158.4 70 90 1.3 1
2004 353 191 54.1 2,586 17 10 125.9 54 -4 -0.1 3
2003 332 157 47.3 1,831 9 15 93.5 48 25 0.5 0
Career 1602 929 58.0 11,762 95 39 134.4 254 182 0.7 6
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Quote:
Well, last year they didn't have the greatest pass protection.....and they lost part of the line...so the guys that weren't good enough last year are playing this year...so now there's even less pass protection.
Yeah, you gotta have some tallent at the 'pretty' positions...but us Browns fans know better than most that you NEED good OLinemen or ya gonna look like dopes.
Good point. The Oline was poor last season in ND and the only two decent players are no longer there. Notre Dame is in a unique situation as it does not have any Little Sisters of the Poor on the schedule at the start of the season, too
It sure makes you realize how much work a college coach has to put into the job to achieve and maintain a high level of success (It isn't like Craig T. Nelson and Jerry Van Dyke). A coach and his staff can't rest when it comes to recruiting and convincing talented players to attend the school.
When going to ESPN to look up some of the draft details, it sure was nice to visit that 2007 Draft page.
ESPN 2007 NFL Draft Page
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It should ALSO remind us that even good coaches don't win without talent. Something many here could apply to our situation. 
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Quote:
It's made me think twice about how I viewed Quinn.
Heck.. We never thought you thunk ONCE
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No it reflects Charlie "the genius" Wies' ability to ride Ty Willingham's coat tails.
NOw look what is happening, Washington is becoming a solid program and ND is hitting the toilet. Ironic.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Quote:
McKnight sucked, their running back who's name I always forget was average at best.
Smardjza was the only one good besides Quinn on that team...
The line sucked, the running game was average, the defense was terrible, quinn was very good.
sums it up right there. darius walker wasn't that good he didn't have much speed. and their corners were and still are slow like ambrose wooden he stinks and mike richardson I don't know how he got drafted so yes I think this is a good argument for quinn.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Does Notre Dame's Collapse Reflect
Quinn's Ability?
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