DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Higgins?

It has been a mystery ... and I think that they had a good off season / preseason, which only adds to the mystery.

Keeping Chubb and Hunt in the backfield, with 3 WRs', I think is our best personnel grouping, given our lack of a TE, and our talent ... imo

Also we need to put OBJ in the slot (motion) more often, when teams try and play match up with their best CB, to better utilize his open field abilities after the catch.

The Offence needs to play to our strengths.
We know that they can, because we had all offseasons to breakdown the tape.

For some reason unknown to me, we have not followed that script, but seem intent on trying to drive a square peg into a round hole.

Then there is our underachieving Defense.

It has been a mystery because the talent is certainly there. I certainly felt the D would be solid and I also thought that would happen early on.

After seeing the first game with Hunt in the lineup it gives me hope. A lot of two back sets looked good. I knew Hunt had the talent to make a real difference and I think we saw that.

His contribution at the end of last year is better than OBJs this year

If Higgins was riding pine in case the Browns had a chance to dump him, I would have refused to go into that game too! Why the hell would they want to trade him? Why did they NEED to trade Avery for nothing? STUPID.

I love Higs, but man that is a poor comparison. He never has had to face the attention that they give to OBJ.

OBJ's production to date is not all factored upon his work alone. There have been too many missed opportunities imo.

We need to get that fixed.

Higgins is a guy who does everything well, even though he lacks elite talent. He is (almost) always when he is supposed to be, when he is supposed to be there. He is extremely reliable, and productive. He is an excellent #3 receiver.

Really good questions. I have a few I would like to dump. And they start regularly.

Sorry bud, I am going to disagree with you on this.

1. We did tender him I believe.

2. For what position he plays 3/4 WR, he is a stud.

3. He runs very good and precise routes. Baker and Higgins clearly have the best relationship and chemistry on the team. And FYI, he performed better last year IMO than Odell is performing this year. ill take his salary and last years production over Odells salary and his production this year.

Does that mean hes better than Odell. Absolutely not, not even close. But Higgins is a reliable, trained, DEVELOPED WR, who has worked his tail off for everything he has accomplished and is loved by his teammates. Yeah, why would we want that on the roster

I think this year has shown something that is PLAINLY obvious. TALENT doenst win games in the NFL. Chemistry, dedication, and TEAMWORK wins games. We don't have any of that. Higgins brings some. JMO

So you are saying Higgins is an elite WR and better than OBJ? I didn't think so.

No cant you read? I said

"His contribution at the end of last year is better than OBJs this year"

If you want to infer that OBJ performance isnt elite this year Ill give you that.

Oh I can read. Higgins is a good for a #3 WR. That has been the message from me all along. Now if you think he's better than that let me know.

If not, isolating the only short period you can find to try and dispute that has no real merit.

Higgins is a number two on a bunch of teams.

Why do you continually state someone said/claimed something that they CLEARLY did NOT say?

Yup.

Do you understand the meaning of a question mark? It appears you think that indicates a statement. Here's a hint. It doesn't.

Then I wonder why no team signed an offer sheet to sign him and give up a fifth round draft pick for him?

Doesn't sound like the NFL considers him a #2 WR.

Because anyone with even a lick of knowledge/sense knows we would have matched the offer. My goodness.

... or because Higgins has a couple years of real so-so production before he started putting things together on the field. Honestly, if it wasn't for Baker getting relegated to 2nd team that training camp, allowing the two of them to essentially play catch for a couple months, Higgins probably would be out of the league. Higgins didn't have a whole lot of positive momentum coming into that training camp.

Could be fate intervened for sure on the Baker connection. I'd disagree though with "out of the league". I'd say more like a "guy that got away" ala Willie Snead or Taylor Gabriel.

This is a very silly premise. You have people on NFL payrolls who are getting paid to draw up and negotiate contracts.

How much salary cap did we have when we refused to match Mack's offer? How about when we let Shwartz walk? Every player has a set value by their team. If you think a player is worth drawing up an offer sheet for, you do it.

It seems you theory says teams shouldn't even try. That's ludicrous.

Don't back out now. Just because you put a question mark at the end of it doesn't hide the fact that you were trying to fraudulently portray the premise of your "question" as a premise he asserted.

No, it isn't silly, nor ludicrous.

Mack was leaving, period, and we burned our own bridge with Schwartz.. .also, neither one of those "examples" has anything to do with anything.


Simple fact: we had as much or more cap space than ANY team AND it was quite clear that we wanted to keep Higgins.

Thus, no team is going to work out a deal to pay him so much that we balk at it AND choose to give us a 5th rounder. It's just that simple. NOBODY was going to offer him anything once we had tagged him. Once we did, he was protected.

How many people on this board don't understand punctuation? I even said I didn't think that was what he was saying after the question.

Any team in need of a #2 WR that actually thought he was a #2 WR would have made an attempt. That is my premise. Now if you're talking about a #3 or #4 WR, like I see Higgins to be, then I agree with you.

Where my issue with what was posted is that a team wouldn't write an offer on a #2 WR. Which Higgins isn't.

That's thee after effect of being Punched in the face !

Then what was the purpose of the post? Boosting your count?

Everyone else understood what he was saying. Everyone else understood you were misrepresenting his position. You aren't the only poster who consistently does this.

But maybe it is simply that everyone else doesn't understand punctuation. Apparently Browns fans aren't predisposed to being very "smart" as is being discussed on the other thread.

It's like he believes we've never seen him try this before!

You should have added that context to what you were saying, then.

I think it goes without saying that he wasn't going to garner the multiple millions per year sort of contract, but even if he did, we would still get the right to match.

Essentially, we're all saying the same thing.... nobody was going to pony up so much that we wouldn't match AND still give up a draft pick on top of it. The amount of money that would have taken would be better spent on a free agent that didn't require them to surrender a draft pick on top of it all.

It doesn't matter if Higgins is a #1,2 or 3. He's valuable to us because he has chemistry with Baker. They work very well together. Why would you want to give up part of our O that works?

Trying to steer it back to football.. I can agree that Higgins doesn't have the resume (possibly yet) to justify serious consideration as a #2. I do think he has progressed and earned some opportunities to be the #2. But it could also be, he just has an ability to be that bail out guy for his QB, much like Heinz Ward was for Ben. I don't think anyone would ever label Ward as a #1 or #2, but look at what his value to the offense was. I could be wrong but I don't think Ward was a hot commodity for other teams either. So I think we have to be careful about factoring in what other teams may or may not offer when assessing the hierarchy of our players

I can't help that people don't follow the conversation. It's exactly what I was responding to.

He would be a 2 on NE, Pitts, Indy, Buff, heck just about anyone we have already played lol.

The case can be made for most NFL teams minus a handful- like SD, KC, MIN, DET, SEA, and maybe a couple more.

J/c

I think Higgins as the #2 for US made us a potent offense. It’s just that he and Baker click way more than Baker/OBJ

GIVE UP before u even try is the mantra of all nfl teams ... its a pretty good strategy ....

I can see the convo now ...

HC “Hey, that Higgs could really help us ...”

GM “ fuggot about it ... browns love him so much they put a 5th rnd. Tender on him and they have ton of cap space ... that 5th round tender shows they really wanna keep him so we won’t even bother “ ....

Ya ... I’m sure that exact same convo on at least a dozen teams around the league .... ...

Or maybe they could have tried to trade for him now ... he’s our 4th and virtually useless to them now ...

How many times have we seem our fan base totally overrate our players? We're seeing it again.

In his best season he had 4td's and 572 yards receiving.

You know teams were just screaming, "We gotta get this guy!"

Frankly, until OBJ can produce the same as what Higgins has in his time in Cleveland, Higgins ought to be in the #1 spot.

.

Your argument has completely fallen apart (again) and now you want to lecture the board about punctuation. So typical.

Mack and Shwartz were first string/starters on any team in the NFL and were FREE agents...not RESTRICTED free agents. I'll assume you understand that difference...but I probably should not. You will use this completely irrelevant issue like you always do when you have been proven wrong by the point of the debate.

Teams aren't going to waste their time establishing market value for other teams AND current teams aren't going to jack up the tender unnecessarily resulting in (possibly) overpaying for a RESTRICTED free agent.


You can have the debate Pit...twist and deflect away with impunity. I've done all I can to get you to see the light.