DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker or Lamar

I always wonder about the health of running QB's. At some point Jackson will have to limit his running. Will that negate some of his effectiveness? Yes.

So the sooner we can make him stop running, the less effective he becomes.

Cam Newton thinks Lamar is going to get hurt.

The process is almost the same with all QB's. In the end is the ability to process quickly, make good decisions, develop under pressure and being able to execute.

Wilson and Deshaun can do it, RG3 and Mariotta couldn't. I like what I see in Lamar, the kid is composed and is doing things right. He has got very good arm talent..

j/c

Baker once again made several throws last night that no other QB drafted in 2018 could make today.

He's steadily got better as the season has gone on. When he steps up in the pocket, he's deadly because he's accurate and willing to push the ball downfield.

Yes, like the inability to keep his mouth shut and blame this season on others for example?

Inexcusable means you can't make excuses... like accountability means you don't blame others for your inability.

So...when did he blame others for his own shortcomings? Exactly?

We can't keep playing like this... using the WE. Its inexcusable what Garret did and that's why we are losing...

When we win its because I wake up feeling dangerous, when we lose is because other fail..

No, we are like this because I've thrown more int's than TD's, and I have sucked and lost the season...

If you don't have anything good to say about your team or your team mates, you shut up. Plain and simple, the only one you are allowed to criticize in public is yourself.

That was a great Adam Schiff imitation.

Your putting words into Baker's mouth he never uttered with sentiment that doesn't represent who he is one bit.

There was a different energy about Bake last night. Perhaps his meds kicked in...

Am I really, he starts by saying he didn't see it and then proceeds to rip Garret and the O apart...

I'm sure its not just me that felt this way... Didn't like it a bit.

And I do think he is improving, he just needs to shut up.

You're reaching on something that isn't there. Surprisingly Baker was the only adult yesterday. Freddie was so frazzled he couldn't put a sentence together.

Something tells me Baker is going to rally this team.

Yes, its going to be fun watching him play in Pitt with a big target on his back and having talked the way he talked...

Maybe it will light his fire... Hope he wakes up feeling dangerous.

Why would he have a target on his back? He didnt back Myles.

They will want payback for Mason... and they sure love kicking Browns Qb's.. They don't have problems with that, and the fans neither.

Baker should know better, he did plenty of inexcusable things in the fields in the past... worst thing is to have team mates on the other side.

Never expected this, I was actually expecting the opposite... and would have liked to see it.

But you are right, I'm sure seeing to much on the whole deal,but like you said, he didn't back Myles...

About time a guy steps up and lights a fire under see these deadbeats arses!

Because MG didn't need backing. Baker spoke the truth and I bet MG agrees with everything Baker said. I am 100% certain that no only does the NFL not want players hitting other players who are helmetless with helmets .... I am sure the players don't want that either. As much as a small band of Browns fans want to say "YAY" we fought back against the big bad Steelers as if somehow this was a W ... that's a reaction devoid of reality or perspective.

What are you even talking about?

The most absurd things I read on this board come from the anti-baker cult.


I think if anything, Rudolph put the target on himself. Anyone with half a brain can see that he played a huge role in this incident and he's calling other players Bush league, crying victim and not being accountable for his own actions. If I'm an opposing defender I can't wait to smack rudolph around because there's nothing more bush league than his actions.

We actually may have helped the Steelers here, because after Thursday, we all know Rudolph will never be a bonafide starter in this league.

This isn't even debatable IMO.

Baker has had his troubles to be sure, but like Vick before him Lamar is a gimmick QB, he does great when he is able to sneak up on teams, but not so much once they have seen what he can and can't do.

The speed is what catches teams off guard, but once having seen and experienced it the novelty wears off and then Lamar is manageable.

With Lamar the second time around seems to end with Lmar losing.

Ummm...this is beyond false. Hilariously false.

The entire league got to see what Lamar can do last season. He’s gotten BETTER. Calling Lamar a gimmick QB proves you haven’t watched a single game this season. He didn’t even look like a gimmick QB when we beat him, and that was his worst game of the season.

How does a gimmick QB have better passing numbers than ours? Using a TRADITIONAL model to evaluate those two, Lamar is destroying baker in pretty much every category except total passing yards.

More PASSING TDs, less turnovers, better QBR, better QB rating, better completion %, and he stat that matters the most? Better W-L record.

This convo would go a lot easier on you guys if you stop lying to yourselves and making up nonsense.

True on all accounts. Still the argument can be made that Baker is the better QB but is the victim of an undisciplined offense and defense in his sophomore season. We need to see more. No doubt they are going to be a big part of the future look of QB’s in the NFL.

yep. but i will be calling out people who still have these pre-draft narratives they refuse to let go of.

we got plenty of tape, stats, W-L records, and everything else to start evaluating QB's based on what they're doing in the NFL.

its just ridiculous. Watson was leading the LEAGUE in passing TD's before he got hurt in his rookie season, and people were still peddling nonsense about him being a run first QB.

He's surpassed anything I thought he would be as a QB ... the one pre-draft narrative I stated and that I will stick with ... He's going to get nicked up. When he does and when he slows down he will be less effective. He doesn't need the brutal injury RG3 had, he just needs to get smacked around for a couple of seasons and then wear and tear will erode his running ability or his willingness to run. While he has been a better throwing QB than I imagined ... it is still predicated on his running ability. As a pocket passer I doubt he has anywhere near the same success. . . . I agree he is great at avoiding contact and the big hit ... but he's going to take a big hit at some-point. You can't run that much and not get hit in the NFL.

so which is worse? running and dictating how you get hit, or standing in the pocket and getting blasted when you dont expect it?

i get what you're saying, but it implies we dont have a clear history of statue QB's getting blasted and hurt in the pocket.

Watson got hurt his rookie season IN the pocket. Vick actually was more healthy that Wentz, Stafford, Peyton Manning, and a few others, who are considered pocket passers.

so really the only person who was considered injury prone as a dual threat was RG3.

its really hard for me to agree with that narrative when people only have 1 guy to go off of. i got a laundry list of pocket passers who get injured left and right.

and i have to say this, which i dont think one person on this board has considered:

would you rather have a QB who is absolutely dominant with 7-8 great years, maybe a title and an MVP, before he gets hurt?

or a QB who plays 20 years, but never wins a title?

obviously we dont know how it will play out, but people keep talking about "well, he will get hurt at some point".

im sure baltimore will consider lamar worth it if he brings them a title before a serious injury takes him out.

at some point, you will be right that lamar will get hurt. just like at some point, people will finally be right when Tom Brady starts declining in play due to age, even though they've been trying to call it for 3-4 years now.

You got a good point - QB's get hit all the time. One isn't worse than the other. I think some QB's are better at protecting themselves whether in the pocket or when running. But let's face it Lamar runs a LOT. As much as a running back - and how many RB's in the NFL go through a season without getting nicked up and hurt? Lamar is more explosive and elusive than nearly any other RB - but he's still going to get hit. To be honest - after what he's done I am a fan (other than he's with the Raven's) ... I hope he doesn't or I hope that when he does he surpasses my expectation of him as a 'less running' threat QB. . . . I love the fact Baker is our QB and I believe he will do great things for many years. Because he's already a Brown it's hard to say I'd rather have someone else. . . But - If there was a redraft at this point and we knew then what we know now I'd be more than happy with Lamar. But don't underestimate what Harbor has achieved in making the Offense all about Lamar. Most other HC in the NFL would not have got the max out of Lamar like Harbor has imo.

i agree, and as i said in my initial post, i'd rather have Baker than lamar based on how the team is built here in cleveland.

but it wont mean much if we dont get competent coaches around Baker.

Sorry swish I will give a statistic baker 1-0

Division titles

Lamar, soon to be 2

Baker, zero

There coming

When all said and done, Baker will have double the division titles as Lamar.

You missed your calling. You should be teaching creative writing.

Division titles

Harbaugh 2

Hue, Williams, Kitchens 0

Those arent QB stats they are team stats

Should I post the individual stats? It gets worse if I do that.

Cheap shot as usual.

Lamar was drafted by a stable team, not a clown show like the Browns.

Cheap shot? How’s that’s a cheap shot?

What?

Look, I'm going to be honest.

Baker is our QB, Lamar Jackson is the QB for the Baltimore Ravens. You know the history.

I don't care if you express your admiration for Lamar Jackson, but as a Browns fan I'm starting to think you should go to Baltimore and give him a big ovation in person.