DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garrett part 2

Buffalo is doing pretty good

I haven't been in here since Thursday's game as I figured everybody would have been going crazy. I also needed my own time to disseminate and break things down. Like everybody else I went from excitement of knowing the game was over to a WTF moment of what am I watching during those last 8 seconds. I spent many hours and days wracking my head around the whys and the hows that it happened. I want a team that can win and lose with dignity and respect. I understand football is a violent game, but I am not here to watch an medieval battle or gladiators fighting to the death. This is a game. IT is sport. Nothing more and nothing less. I love the chess match of the sport and I love the strategy and battle of wills as well as how prideful I am of my hometown city when we win.

This season has been hard. Very hard. Mainly because we all came into this season expecting far too much and believing the hype. I count myself as one of them. There has been far too much talking and not enough true results. There have been media tantrums, player drama, suspensions, waivings, Players Twitter tirades threatening fans and reporters, inane uniform issues that take up far too much media time, an undisciplined and highly penalized team taking the field, player ejections, embarrassing losses and horrible game time coaching issues and now MG going ballistic on National TV with only 8 sec left and to the point where in all honesty it could have been really bad had he connected on the temple or top of the skull with the crown of the helmet. I have questioned Freddie and the coaches and the culture that is being instilled and seriously worry if this is beyond rookie mistakes for FK.

As coaches and players have said...unfortunately that is all that will be remembered from the game that we totally dominated. Chubb broke a 1000, Shobert had a great game, hodge came out of nowhere and our recently signed TE made an unbelievable catch, our defense dominated and Baker played a solid game...none of that is remembered. Had Myles dropped that helmet and swung a fist it would all be bygone by now and most people would have moved on.

BUT...I have also spent much time wracking my brain and realizing that we put so many expectations on these players to be mean, nasty and violent for this game and then expect them to just switch off after every play, when they go to the sidelines or when the game is over. Clearly he was mad. Clearly his emotions got the better of him, and clearly for a split second he saw red and didn't think about his actions or the aftereffects of it. We are all capable of going to that place and we have probably all had moments in our lives where we know we could have handled things better. I believe MG immediately thought that after the fact and felt awful. He deserves a suspension of games, what he did was totally wrong, but I am not going to paint him as some terrible person who is a dirty player and should be cut from the team or kicked out of the league. That is asinine and totally over the top. The NFL also needs to look themselves in the mirror and look at their suspension policy for both on the field and off the field issues because the league often looks absurd in these big, overriding issues.

That said, I want to be proud of my team and I walked away not feeling that on Thursday and it definitely felt like a loss even though we had won. I now hope the team can rally behind each other...stay focused on the goal and continue to play well and win with dignity and respect.

Orange & Brown Forever, GO BROWNS!

Doesn't the CBA state that an indefinite suspension cannot take place for on the field actions? Sorry didn't bother to read the whole thread

That is exactly the loophole MG is looking to appeal tomorrow re: his "indefinite" suspension and to get a specific number and hopefully reduction.

Did yall know MG is suspended?

Couldn't tell.

Uh...yup

Would you prefer a white cane or a guide dog for Christmas

I think the NFL made so many mistakes intentionally because of the PR mob mentality and Twitter rage.

Once people cooled down and moved on from that incident, MG will have his chance to appeal it and only end up with 3-4 games.

Maybe that's my hope? I think the NFL admins are slimy, sneaky, and now give into peer pressure. This is their sleazily way of getting around it and saving face for both sides.

Nobody is saying that Myles does not deserve a suspension or is not wrong, but the individuals defending a non-suspension for Rudolph or assaulting Garrett's character or calling him a criminal are just plain wrong.

I don't care how good a person someone thinks that they are, everyone has a boiling point where the parts of their brain responsible for regulating emotions and performing cognitive tasks completely shutdown. It is not a conscious choice, it is physiology.

It bothers me that people keep carrying on about "composure", because talking and thinking about composure is not going to prevent a physiological response.

It is a violent and emotional game already. Enduring cheap shots can send players over the edge and the Steelers have been the masters of cheap shots for decades. It just doesn't feel right to me that someone should be able to push another person to their boiling point through illegal actions on the field and then bear no responsibility for the things that follow.

Your acting like he hurt Mason. He didn't. He gave him a tap. Myles is 280lbs, and a freak. IF he wanted to hurt Mason with that, he could have and would have. Mason immediately looks at the ref with his hands up. He wasn't hurt, it wasn't hit hard, and I think a lot of people are putting it out of proportion.

Garrett deserves to be suspended for a long time. No, he didn't hurt Rudolph, but he very easily could have. With how he was locked up with the Steelers Olineman, Mason could've sustained massive facial/cranial injuries just as easily and Garrett could've missed entirely. The outcome of the swing and where he swung is irrelevant because the fact is he swung.

But folks that somehow equate Rudolph needing to be suspended with letting Garrett off the hook is maddening. I'm aware that the court of public opinion allows for a single heinous act (hitting a guy in the head with a hard object used as a weapon) to overshadow everything else that happened before and after, but official disciplinary processes aren't supposed to work this way.
This may fly over some peoples' heads, but it is possible to be both outraged by Rudolph's lack of suspension and simultaneously hold Garrett fully responsible for the helmet swing.

I think Garrett's suspension should be changed to not be indefinite. This whole... having Garrett crawl back to the league and beg forgiveness at some unclear point in the future is silly, imo. I hope that part, at least, gets corrected.

Re: the main point of my post... I get the feeling that some on here are unable to separate what Garrett did and what Rudolph did. That arguing that Rudolph had a part in the situation and deserves a suspension somehow equates to defending what Garrett did. It doesn't.

Right, lock it in at 6 games and move on. I'm fine with him not playing another down this season. Sure, it'd be nice to have it at 4 games, but I just don't see that happening. Goodell has already came out and said Myles is done for the year, so that's going to stick. Also, I don't think they have to worry about "6 games + the playoffs".

I'm more interested to see if Ogunjobi's suspension is reduced to just a big fine. I still don't think he hit Mason all that hard and it's not like he followed up with punches. He stood there flat-footed like, "What the heck is going on? I knocked the guy charging at Myles, but what the hell did I just see?" Like he was half defending Myles and half confused on the helmet swing. Again, he barely knocked him over. That's a fine.

With it not appearing that Rudolph will be suspended, I hope Pouncey's suspension sticks at at least 2 games.

I asked GM Santa for a guide dog last year ,..... but instead I got a scroungy old opossum.

This has devolved to the point of desperation.

I bet MG's sack was more sore after the game than was MR's head.

The helmet was used as a weapon. It's really pretty simple here.

There's no doubt that Rudolph started it. There's no doubt that Rudolph was the aggressor not just once, but twice. There's no doubt that Rudolph should have also have been suspended.

The problem came when Myles decided to use that helmet as a weapon to hit an opposing player wearing no helmet with it. Like I've said before, people can make excuses for that all they like but there's no room for that in the game.

Myles went over the top when he did that. He admitted it, understands it and owned up to it. Sadly some fans can't seem to do the same thing.

Calling it "giving him a tap" is a perfect example of that.

To separate what they did only misrepresents what actually occurred. There was a clear back and forth escalation of one thing leading to another. People keep harping in the ‘deadly weapon’ Myles used. If this were to be investigated as a criminal matter, their actions wouldn’t be looked at as wholly separate things. Just because Garrett’s actions finished the fight doesn’t mean Rudolph is a victim. At the end of that criminal investigation Rudolph would be charged with as equal an offense as Garrett for the torquing of his helmet and targeted punches to the ballz.

Oob, if this occurred say 5 or 10 years ago you might see more fans more critical of Myles. But people are tired of the double standards. We see this in our society, our culture, our politics. Regardless of where you sit amongst all that, people are tired of the double standards. Institutions who enforce those double standards are no longer seen to be credible. If that institution is going to fail to be fair , then people are going to fall back on a much more rudimentary form of fairness: if he’s not going to get punished for his part then our guy shouldn’t be punished for his.

Maybe that’s the not the right way to view things. Maybe it’s not as ‘refined or dignified’ as we are capable of as a society. But it’s real. At least that part is honest. I’m not a proponent of that way of thinking but i understand it and I think it’s a more defensible position to take then anyone who is calling for a serious penalty for Myles while simultaneously excusing Rudolph for his actions

I could be wrong but didn’t Rudolph take the 4th down snap after the fight? If he had taken such a. Vicious blow he should have been sifdelined for at least one play and evaluated for a concussion.

Yes, since it didn't land in such a way that he had brain damage, it's all good!

I didn't think I needed purple for that one.

I guess since he didn't suffer an injury that means a helmet was not used as a weapon?

The helmet was merely a defense system against Rudolph's testicle tearing talons!

Sort of like the Patriot missiles?

Yes. Scud missile(s) had been fired.

So you are saying it's fine to use a weapon against a weapon. I agree. But not a weapon against no weapon.

Hell, a guy just got 15 days for throwing a drink on someone.

Why excuse using a weapon against an unarmed person? Does an NFL uniform blind you that much?

The point of the suspension is to act as a deterrence. So the question is, do you focus squarely on the use of the helmet as a weapon, or do you focus on all of the events leading up to that point and try to deter all of the unwanted behaviors.

I think Myles knew it was wrong to swing a helmet at someone before the game. Does a suspension really help anyone think about the consequences in the heat of the moment?

Expecting someone to make the split second decision in a scenario that has gotten out of control is not a very effective prevention strategy because at a certain point the part of the brain responsible for emotion regulation and thinking logically shuts down and hands the reins to the part of the brain responsible for fight or flight.

It is important to focus prevention on all of the unwanted behaviors because players are more likely to take consequences into consideration before a fight escalates. Once a boiling point is reached, nobody is going to think logically enough to consider the consequences.

According to your scenario, every person issued a CCW would automatically shoot people in a hand to hand combat scenario.

That isn't so.

My initial reaction was that I could not believe a completely out of control Mason Rudolph was using his talons in an attempt to sever Myles' reproductive organs from his body.

Myles might never have been able to have children had Rudolph kept wrenching at his testicles. Just horrible!

This photo is haunting!....

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Roger Goodell doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to suspensions.

based on CBA language and precedent, this would be correct IMO

I wonder.....If Miles had dropped the Helmet.. Would Mason have been suspended for HIS endangerment ?

And now we have Rudolph expressing his remorse:

Facing dozens of cameras and media members with his back against a nondescript white wall, Rudolph read aloud from the paper, saying he should've done a better job maintaining his composure during the late-game fight that, so far, has resulted in three suspensions.

"I should've done a better job handling that situation," Rudolph said. "I have no ill will towards Myles Garrett. Great respect for his ability as a player. And I know that if Myles could go back, he would handle the situation differently."

"For my involvement last week, there's no acceptable excuse. The bottom line is I should've done a better job keeping my composure in that situation and [not] fall short of what I believe it means to be a Pittsburgh Steeler and a member of the NFL."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28122780/mason-rudolph-regrets-actions-ok-myles-garrett


And Tomlin as well:

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin opened his weekly news conference by accepting responsibility for his team's role in Thursday night's melee with the Cleveland Browns.

"It was ugly," said Tomlin, who had refused to take any questions about the incident directly after the game. "It was ugly for the game of football. I think all of us that are involved in the game, particularly at this level, want to safeguard and protect the game, its integrity. And in that instance, it was compromised, obviously, with an unfortunate incident."

"None of us want those incidents to transpire. It did. We were a part of it. We accept responsibility for our actions within it."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2811...le-browns-melee

I didn't provide a scenario, so I am not following how this connects to what I wrote...

The justice system seems to think so. You are suggesting people do not think about consequences in the heat of the moment. Thus my response.



This too seems to be excusing the use of a weapon in response. I simply turned the scenario up a notch.



People do think logically enough to consider consequences. It's what everyone with a CCW doesn't shoot people every time there is a conflict.

Ok, boomer.

j/c...

The Juice weighing in....