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I see why politicians lie all the time.

Nobody will hold them accountable. Why tell the truth when nothing will happen if you don’t?

The voters will talk about the government doesn’t represent the people.

Yea it does. It absolutely does.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I believe our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the President to set foreign policy.

Giving billions of tax payer dollars to a corrupt government is not good policy.

Trump would be wise to hold that money back until he could be assured our dollars were not wasted.

Marching a bunch of butt hurt bureaucrats through the House, crying about their bosses policy changes, doesn't fly.


trump didnt care about the results of the investigation he justed wanted Ukraine to announce an investigation to hurt his political rival. has he been assured? is that why money was released?


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Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I believe our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the President to set foreign policy.

Giving billions of tax payer dollars to a corrupt government is not good policy.

Trump would be wise to hold that money back until he could be assured our dollars were not wasted.

Marching a bunch of butt hurt bureaucrats through the House, crying about their bosses policy changes, doesn't fly.


trump didnt care about the results of the investigation he justed wanted Ukraine to announce an investigation to hurt his political rival. has he been assured? is that why money was released?


Don't think so. Trump was trying to find out where the Russian Collusion hoax began. He wants corruption investigated in Ukraine and the Bidens were right in the middle of it all.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
I see why politicians lie all the time.

Nobody will hold them accountable. Why tell the truth when nothing will happen if you don’t?

The voters will talk about the government doesn’t represent the people.

Yea it does. It absolutely does.


I tend to think about politics in the term “artful and plausible lies” A good political statement has some element of plausibility.

Trump is neither artful or plausible in his approach. That is confounding because it is outside political discourse. And when confronted his response is to attack the messenger.


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I believe our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the President to set foreign policy.

Giving billions of tax payer dollars to a corrupt government is not good policy.

Trump would be wise to hold that money back until he could be assured our dollars were not wasted.

Marching a bunch of butt hurt bureaucrats through the House, crying about their bosses policy changes, doesn't fly.


trump didnt care about the results of the investigation he justed wanted Ukraine to announce an investigation to hurt his political rival. has he been assured? is that why money was released?


Don't think so. Trump was trying to find out where the Russian Collusion hoax began. He wants corruption investigated in Ukraine and the Bidens were right in the middle of it all.


"Don't think so"

You think wrong. He did not pressure them to do an investigation he pressured them to announce an investigation. HE DID NOT CARE ABOUT THE RESULTS OF AN INVESTIGATION OR EVEN IF IT WOULD HAPPEN.


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Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I believe our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the President to set foreign policy.

Giving billions of tax payer dollars to a corrupt government is not good policy.

Trump would be wise to hold that money back until he could be assured our dollars were not wasted.

Marching a bunch of butt hurt bureaucrats through the House, crying about their bosses policy changes, doesn't fly.


trump didnt care about the results of the investigation he justed wanted Ukraine to announce an investigation to hurt his political rival. has he been assured? is that why money was released?


Don't think so. Trump was trying to find out where the Russian Collusion hoax began. He wants corruption investigated in Ukraine and the Bidens were right in the middle of it all.


"Don't think so"

You think wrong. He did not pressure them to do an investigation he pressured them to announce an investigation. HE DID NOT CARE ABOUT THE RESULTS OF AN INVESTIGATION OR EVEN IF IT WOULD HAPPEN.


Well, that's your opinion.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I believe our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the President to set foreign policy.

Giving billions of tax payer dollars to a corrupt government is not good policy.

Trump would be wise to hold that money back until he could be assured our dollars were not wasted.

Marching a bunch of butt hurt bureaucrats through the House, crying about their bosses policy changes, doesn't fly.


I believe the President’s oath requires home to uphold the laws of the United States. He has failed to do so, most likely by committing bribery and violating campaign finance laws.

That falls under the articles of impeachment, and we are there now.


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You’re right.

It just that there’s what you’re describing, and then there’s the nonsense we get from trump.

I do not like trump. But damn bro, how far would it have gone to American people if trump came out last month and went “what I did was inappropriate. I tried to get the Ukrainians to take corruption seriously, but unfortunately I mentioned things I shouldn’t due to inexperience”.

That right there is perfect political cover, even if we disagree on the seriousness of what happened. But this man has no such honor nor integrity to do such a thing. And because of that, we learn everything the hard way, and then loser needs to go.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I believe our Constitution states it is the responsibility of the President to set foreign policy.

Giving billions of tax payer dollars to a corrupt government is not good policy.

Trump would be wise to hold that money back until he could be assured our dollars were not wasted.

Marching a bunch of butt hurt bureaucrats through the House, crying about their bosses policy changes, doesn't fly.


trump didnt care about the results of the investigation he justed wanted Ukraine to announce an investigation to hurt his political rival. has he been assured? is that why money was released?


Don't think so. Trump was trying to find out where the Russian Collusion hoax began. He wants corruption investigated in Ukraine and the Bidens were right in the middle of it all.


"Don't think so"

You think wrong. He did not pressure them to do an investigation he pressured them to announce an investigation. HE DID NOT CARE ABOUT THE RESULTS OF AN INVESTIGATION OR EVEN IF IT WOULD HAPPEN.


Well, that's your opinion.


That is the fact stated during testimony under oath.


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Lindsey Graham
Verified account @LindseyGrahamSC
5h5 hours ago

Today, I sent a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo requesting documents related to contacts between:

Vice President Biden
Hunter Biden
other Obama administration officials and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko.
8,305 replies 6,235 retweets 17,953 likes

Lindsey Graham
‏Verified account @LindseyGrahamSC

My letter to Secretary Pompeo and the request for information is available online.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/LG%20to%20MP%20re%20Biden%20and%20Ukraine.pdf

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I agree with the dog and pony show comment.

Every time I randomly got forced to watch this crap... all that ever happened was the questioner made up a bunch of imaginary scenarios that they tried to force the answerer to admit to.

It's basically a he said she said fight about made up crap.

Whatever happened to facts?

This whole thing is embarrassing. Our Government (both sides) are a bunch of kindergartners.

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I think you might've missed this during the 2016 convention...



I think Newt Gingrich is a Browns fan posting on this board. I wonder if Gingrich once had a Mexican gardener...?

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"All you stupid libs have against Trump is
evidence and several honorable witnesses
and his admission
and the admissions of Giuliani and Mulvaney
and crap like that.

Friggin witch hunt."

-Toure

rofl


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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That’s a Cop out. One side refuses to hear the facts or do anything about the stupid and illegal BS trump pulls off.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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In the end facts will not matter.

The House will impeach. There is more than enough evidence.

The Senate will follow the party.

trump will claim he is exonerated. He will brag and lie as always.

It is up to the people to vote his ass out of office. The election is about electability and Biden is the guy who can win swing states.

I doubt that any of the others could win where it counts.

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Not a fan of Biden. He seems weak and I think he'll stumble and fall in front of a full out assault from Trump.

But yeah - the House will impeach the sheeple Senate will cow down and follow the line and the impeachment won't be upheld.

Once again, it is simply staggering that any single one of at least a dozen or more Trump scandals would have totally sent the GOP into nuclear meltdown and probably ended up sinking Obama.

You reap what you sow - all that's happening is a new low is being set for future Democratic and Republican politicians.


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I don't think anything will come of any of this. At the end of the day, we're asking a group of people to enforce an idea (accountability) that terrifies every last one of them.

They will drag this out so that it sinks Trump in the coming elections.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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There are no democratic candidates other than Biden who can beat trump.

Sanders, Warren, or Pete are not going to have enough appeal in the right places.

This is about Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Florida. The suburbs, the Independents the people who voted against Hillary. Not really for trump.

The trump University grads will vote blind.

Biden is not a super strong candidate. But he is qualified and can win in the swing states. He has good polls with Blacks and Hispanics. He has a broader appeal than the rest.

In addition he is unafraid of trump.

I am not a political geek just my opinion.

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Trump gets doubly misogynistic with Fox & Friends attacks on Marie Yovanovitch and Kellyanne Conway

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-gets-doubly-misogynistic-fox-144500213.html

What’s wrong with this dude?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Trump tells Fox News anchors 'I want a trial' if House Democrats vote to impeach

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-tells-fox-news-anchors-141626294.html

God, I don’t ever ask for anything from you. I don’t even know if you exist. But if you can please, grant us this gift. Whisper in the ear of trump and the republicans, and have trump testify in the trial, publicly, under oath.

That’s all I ask.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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j/c

Let's be honest about what is happening here.

The Democrats give the American people too much credit. They actually believe the American people care and understand enough to watch a puzzle come together. What does the average American understand about foreign policy? Pretty much nothing. How much patience or is the average attention span of an American? Virtually non existent.

The most common length of a tweet is 33 characters. Historically, only 9% of tweets hit 140-characters, now it's 1%. Many times people read a headline and think that actually tells you the factual content of an article. That's how involved most people are in getting to the truth.

Let's look back for a moment at the last two impeachment processes and just how simple they were.

Bill Clinton

Clinton lied under oath. That's perjury.

See how simple that is? Everyone knows perjury is a crime. It's obvious and can be described in one sentence.

Richard Nixon

Nixon had people do a break in of his opponents and steal documents.

Everyone knows that theft and breaking and entering is a crime. They know that stealing is a crime. See how simple that is? One sentence describes it.

The American people as a whole can easily grasp that. In both of these cases nobody had to put a lot of time and effort into understanding what happened. It was a simple A,B,C type of thing.

This time? They had to watch a puzzle being put together. This time there is a national news network to help cover, distract and dismiss facts and evidence. This time it took paying attention, listening and watching things as they unfolded.

The Democrats mistake? They think the average American is capable of that.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Trump tells Fox News anchors 'I want a trial' if House Democrats vote to impeach

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-tells-fox-news-anchors-141626294.html

God, I don’t ever ask for anything from you. I don’t even know if you exist. But if you can please, grant us this gift. Whisper in the ear of trump and the republicans, and have trump testify in the trial, publicly, under oath.

That’s all I ask.


Lol ....that’s throwing trump under the bus. So it won’t happen.


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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

If only we could just read the phone call transcripts and ask the President of Ukraine how HE felt about the phone calls. When will we take HIS feelings into account?

My sides are hurting here. rofl
actually that analogy would be reversed if you think about it.

The dems have all these tricks to get trump, yet he keeps "meep meep" by still being president.

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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

If only we could just read the phone call transcripts and ask the President of Ukraine how HE felt about the phone calls. When will we take HIS feelings into account?

My sides are hurting here. rofl
actually that analogy would be reversed if you think about it.

The dems have all these tricks to get trump, yet he keeps "meep meep" by still being president.


trump is doing a damn good job tricking the gop as much as he is the dems maybe more.

Remember......

“Everyone was in the loop”. Lol enjoy


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j/c

SATIRE

Devin Nunes Accuses Witnesses of Misleading American People with Facts

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—In what some observers called his most sarcastic opening statement of the impeachment inquiry, Representative Devin Nunes, on Thursday, accused witnesses of trying to mislead the American people with facts.

“From the beginning of these proceedings, the Democrats’ witnesses have offered facts, more facts, and nothing but facts,” Nunes said. “I, for one, have had enough of their factual games.”

Ramping up his attack, he accused the civil servants who have testified of having “an almost cult-like worship of verifiable information.”

“ ‘Step right up,’ these witnesses seem to be saying,” Nunes added. “ ‘The fact circus is in town.’ ”

Nunes, however, warned his Democratic colleagues that “the American people won’t be fooled by your relentless account of things that actually happened.”

“When the American people see the Democrats building this massive, sky-high tower of facts, they have to ask themselves: Is that all you’ve got?” he said.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz...cSCWqhSSBF7aFF8


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Trump in Fox News rant says he still is looking for nonexistent DNC server

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-in-fox-news...-153629130.html

so you trump supporters are perfectly fine with this guy embarrassing himself and this country like this?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Fox Nation hosts Kat Timpf and Tom Shillue compiled a montage of what seems to be the most popular word repeated throughout the impeachment proceedings as this Thursday marked the end of week two in the public testimonies.

"During week two of impeachment hearings, there sure was a lot of 'presuming,' tsktsk

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Need to drop out again.

I find politics extremely aggravating. I can not get through the lies and hypocrisy both red and blue.

I want to give the general populace more credit but I find that is impossible.

I saw that there was a convention for people who believe the world is flat. So that is a reality check on some of the thinking we have.

When evidence is so clear and people ignore it. I have to go back to seclusion. I have seen to much. Vietnam, assassinations, civil rights, Kent State, Nixon. Every time I have gotten involved it has ended badly. I feel better trying to just live my life and letting this crap melt away. In the end I will cast a vote and hope enough people recognize the damage trump has done and would do again.

He has rolled back every environmental initiative that was hard fought and set to law. Great Lakes protections, Arctic National Wildlife refuge. Pebble Mine EPA ruling.

Destroyed international policy with our allies.

Has played right into Putin's agenda like a unknowing pawn.

The most unqualified and unfit president in our history.
And the 40% who follow are ignoring the obvious.

I hope we get it right and he disappears. In the meantime I am done. Not willing to sacrifice my peace of mind.

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Originally Posted By: bonefish

I feel better trying to just live my life and letting this crap melt away.


Sadly I feel this is exactly what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: bonefish

I feel better trying to just live my life and letting this crap melt away.


Sadly I feel this is exactly what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.


So you guys find these things to be "Crap" and "A Mess"?

-Almost 4 million jobs created since election.

-More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.

-More than 400,000 manufacturing jobs created since the election.

-Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.

-New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.

-Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.

-African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

-Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.

-Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

-Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.

-Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.

-Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.

-Veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.

-Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.

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I find making excuses for a nasty and crooked president because it lines you own pockets crap and a mess.


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The only analogy that I find a bit interesting is the Iran Contra affair.

That was probably a similar situation.

But you will never see President Trump giving a mea-culpa and asking for forgiveness from the American people. President Reagan had far more goodwill established with the electorate.

And President Trump is also way too personally involved in the details.

So he is deservedly likely to be impeached.


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If we can't impeach and remove a President for treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors then we as a nation are lost. Trump is guilty of at least one, but I say all of those.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: bonefish

I feel better trying to just live my life and letting this crap melt away.


Sadly I feel this is exactly what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.


So you guys find these things to be "Crap" and "A Mess"?

-Almost 4 million jobs created since election.

-More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.

-More than 400,000 manufacturing jobs created since the election.

-Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.

-New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.

-Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.

-African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

-Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.

-Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

-Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.

-Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.

-Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.

-Veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.

-Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.



Well shoot in that case, let's let him piss all over the constitution and take American values down the crapper. Awesome.


Not to mention your list of highly questionable and misleading accomplishments. While many things might be 'true' it doesn't mean they were a result of Trump or even necessarily a good thing.

As for the Impeachment and the P.O.S that is Trump - just look at his claim that Holmes is lying.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-i...i-idUSKBN1XW1J7

This despite the FACT that his own appointee - Sondland - verified under oath that the phone call took place just as Holmes described. . . . I wanted Trump to succeed. I didn't like many of his policies ... but the longer we've been exposed to his corrupt, lying, manipulative, divisive term as POTUS, it's boiled down to the fact that the guy is simply a despicable POS that's sullied the WH. I wrote before none of the impeachment proceedings matter - Trump supporters will continue to elevate him above truth and country. Everyone else can see the light. We'll see what happens next November.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I find making excuses for a nasty and crooked president because it lines you own pockets crap and a mess.


I hired Trump to do the great job he has done.
Grow the economy.
Lower unemployment.
Strengthen our Military.
Slow or stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

I did not hire him to be my friend, spiritual leader or babysitter of my children.

Hopefully you will find someone you personally like in the next election.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I find making excuses for a nasty and crooked president because it lines you own pockets crap and a mess.


I hired Trump to do the great job he has done.
Grow the economy.
Lower unemployment.
Strengthen our Military.
Slow or stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

I did not hire him to be my friend, spiritual leader or babysitter of my children.

Hopefully you will find someone you personally like in the next election.


You must LOVE Obama.

Immigration: Obama better

https://www.statista.com/chart/16595/the...-mexico-border/

Economy and Unemployment - Obama better

https://www.businessinsider.com/9-charts...s-second-term-3

Military ???? Trump is spending over $100 Billion a year more than Obama's last Military budget.... When we spend as much or now more than the next 7 largest nations on earth, I have to question your fear that the USA isn't safe from a military perspective.... Add to that Trump courting and being played by Putin and I'd say Obama wins again but happy to accept Trump is spending much more. Funny .... brings me to a the fact that absent was any reference to fiscal responsibility. I wonder why?


https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-military-spending-vs-world/


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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I find making excuses for a nasty and crooked president because it lines you own pockets crap and a mess.


I hired Trump to do the great job he has done.
Grow the economy.
Lower unemployment.
Strengthen our Military.
Slow or stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

I did not hire him to be my friend, spiritual leader or babysitter of my children.

Hopefully you will find someone you personally like in the next election.


You must LOVE Obama.

Immigration: Obama better

https://www.statista.com/chart/16595/the...-mexico-border/

Economy and Unemployment - Obama better

https://www.businessinsider.com/9-charts...s-second-term-3

Military ???? Trump is spending over $100 Billion a year more than Obama's last Military budget.... When we spend as much or now more than the next 7 largest nations on earth, I have to question your fear that the USA isn't safe from a military perspective.... Add to that Trump courting and being played by Putin and I'd say Obama wins again but happy to accept Trump is spending much more. Funny .... brings me to a the fact that absent was any reference to fiscal responsibility. I wonder why?


https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-military-spending-vs-world/



Knock it off with your facts. trump said it’s all better since he’s plopped his KFC filled carcass in the Oval Office... so it’s all better. Duh.


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He broke the law.

Quid Pro Quo. His entire life has been based upon that Latin phrase.

It is how you deal in real estate. Completely in character for him. This for that.

Except he is the president. And it is against the law to withhold appropriated funds to an ally at war unless they do your personal bidding for political gain.

This is not about dubious policy decisions.

The evidence is corroborated by career diplomats not political appointees. They were doing their jobs.

Forget republican and democrat. trump violated the law. It can not be more clear.

No matter what happens with all the partisan arguments.

He did it. He did it to further his political ambitions. And by doing so he is playing right into Putin's hands.

The Russians interfered with our elections. That should bother any American. They will continue. They are the aggressors in the Ukraine.

Damn this about America not republicans and democrats.

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Trump openly admitted on live TV to doing the thing he's accused of in the impeachment inquiry

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-openly-admitted-live-tv-155049415.html

I forgot trump said this a while back. Trump pretty mich tells us what crimes he plans on committing in the future.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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None of this means anything as long as the GOP sells out the countries values and laws to protect him. They are all traitors imho.

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