DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Look at the Roster Part II

Continued....

What's a Robert McCray?

Hopefully better than our OL McCray

Our OL McCray may be starting at LT Sunday

The way I read it, McCray was highly likely to start Sunday.

Yep...that's what I'm seeing as well. Odd that Lamm apparently isn't in the discussion. He's a tackle and I didn't see him on the Injury Report. Maybe I missed it.

Yeah, that’s not a good sign

One of that Browns reporters on the Plain Dealer's website said that He had heard that Lamm was also a consideration.

I don't even know this statements context, but I'm legitimately asking if it's written to be funny, because, hasn't this been supposed to be the case for just about everything on the Browns O-Line for the past 6 months.

GC. A look at the roster, November 29, 2019, in 3 steps, a better team.

1. Step one the Browns should attempt to keep the team together in starters/major contributors on offense, defense, and special teams, including the commitment to reinstate Myles Garrett and other valued teammates.

2. Step two, the Browns should (STOP).. trying to do too much chasing of fake gold by trying to improve too many positions with constant change during the offseason, which hurts chemistry, continuity, and coaches' +teammates' understanding of what players can do and do best.

3. Step three, The Browns should focus the majority of the 2020 offseason on improving two areas of the roster, the Tight Ends, and the Safety position. Better depth and improved production at both of these positions will position any of the AFC North teams to be more likely to win the AFC north in the 2020/2021 season.

More on three. The Browns' roster is currently in a position where investments at these two positions would be more beneficial because of the current makeup of experience and depth at these and all positions across their roster.

We need to improve the OT positions as well as the safety and TE's.

They have such little success developing offensive linemen from the draft, that I hope they don't go investing any "significant" picks there and stick with picking up journymen free agents to address that position,

because it's worked out so well so far, And, using an early pick on an O-lineman would be another wasted opportunity that they'd let slip through their hands.

They drafted offensive linemen for 25 years and they won zero division titles with it, Even going back to Steve Everett, who was a really good pick, and probably the Last really good O-lineman they drafted, (or, ahem, and Joe Thomas, nevermind, ((I never felt he dominated)).

Just about every year, the team in the AFC North with the best "Tight End" play, is playing for or outright winning the division title when week 17 comes around.

bingo .. the OT/TE position is desperate IMO

Yeah, I agree. OT should be highest on the priority list. More than any other position.

Twain!

Heavy investment in the tackle position could make this offence very scary.

Is there a next Joe T in this draft or next?


We gotta get this guy, yo....

I’m not a draft guru, but I agree. Drafting a stud RT would do wonders

There are a ton of Right Tackles hitting free agency in 2020.
Not too many Left Tackles. I'd expect us to look to free agency for RT and maybe double back for a developmental kid in a later round.

I'm thinking that our first or 2nd rounder will be a LT.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/right-tackle/

Going rate for proven "stud" RT's: $72 million, with $54 million guaranteed.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28189695/lane-johnson-eagles-extension-worth-72m

Yeah, which is why drafting one and hitting on him is ideal

If we can hit on a LT in the draft, I'd love to be able to slide Robinson over to the right.

But you see us getting two or three? Because what we have just seems lame. Did see some nice runblocking, but the pass protection was not adequate, especially as to how long BM was willing to wait for a sack holding it. Their DC should send a thank you note for Christmas.

jc

well, now that our season is basically over, time to look at our roster:

HC: trash

QB: meh

O line: trash

RB: elite

TEs: trash

WR: good

D Line: Average

LB's: above average

CB's: meh

S's: where? dont see em.

ST: meh

Punter: good

Kicker: meh


as a team, we're trash. individual talents? all over the place.

but it seems like we got a ton of mentality weak babies on this roster, being led by incompetent coaches.

should've kept gregg williams as HC.

OT, TE, HC, S ... extremely huge holes

I agree with all of this.

Don't think the OL is that bad, specially in the running game.

Regarding the CB's... I'm a bit disappointed with Ward, but we are not that far from having a good group.

And Wrs we are elite,probably the best group on the NFL

I think the CBs will be fine. Just need time. Same with punter and kicker.

I think our Oline is most definitely NOT fine, but if we can find a legit LT, and slide Robinson over to RT, which slides Hubbard to 1st backup, then we'll look night-and-day better. I think the RG situation will work itself out organically with our internal talent maturing and getting healthy.

I think our QB will greatly benefit from a proper off-season fueled by a bunch of humble pie.

I think our TE group will greatly benefit from some draft picks.


I don't know what I want to do with HC.

we need to get stronger and more physical in the secondary, we need better coaching and better offensive line, we need a QB that can read defenses and make NFL throws. If Eli manning can throw to Odell when odell was the focal point and get tons of yards and TDs but we can't with supposedly better talent, then our QB sucks. Could you imagine a brady, brees or rodgers with this much talent at the skill positions..they'd make 45points a game look pedestrian

Do we have to look at the roster??

I'd rather not.

Seems like our main trouble is being undisciplined and arrogant.

That starts at the top.

Head Coach TBD
QB TBD but we need a good backup
O-line good up the middle but we need a LT first and also a RT 2nd
RB Great this year, but we need to sign Hunt, and get a 3rd Rb for next season.
TE Jury is still out on our Number 1 TE but we do need good depth behind him.
WR great but we need more quality depth
D-line we need more depth across the board. 1st at DE then at DT
Linebackers we are set if we stick with the same defense and defensive coaching staff.
CB's we are in good shape
Saftey's we need more quality depth
Special Teams.... For Gods sake could we finally get another returner in the mold of Dino Hall, Ice Cube, or Josh Cribbs. I am sick and tired or worring about our returning not only catching the ball, but running it once we catch it. Our return men have to have been in the bottom of the league for 20 years now.
Punter good
Kicker We screwed up by letting Gonzalez go. He is better at kicking field goals, and at kick offs.

If we don't play as a team next year instead of a bunch of individuals then we need to make changes in our Coaching staff, and look long and hard at the players we sign.

j/c...

So basically your saying FO = Trash


+ for upgraded - for downgraded = for jury still out

HC - (-)
QB - (=)
Oline - (-)
RB - (+)
TE - (-)
WR - (+)
Dline - (=/-)He added Richardson, but getting rid of Nassib, Ogbah, and AVery were mistakes.
LB - (+)
CB (+)Our corners were trash with the last regime
S - (-)
ST - (=)
P - (+)
K - (=/-)


Dorsey has not done as good a job as people have think and have stated.

Hes upgraded a few pieces on this team. But he has HURT this team in more ways than I can count.

Dorsey decimated the line
Dorsey got rid of the only decent backup TE we had
Dorsey brought in Richardson, but decimated the vast depth we had on the DL by getting rid of Nassib, Ogbah, Avery, etc.
Dorsey has done ok with the LB corps so far, but our best LB wasn't from him.
Dorsey upgraded our CB position drastically
Dorsey has hurt the S position
ST - hasn't been great, but consistent at least
K - Zane is better than Siebert.
P - He made the right call for the Hammer

Dorsey has not hurt the safety position, if for no other reason than the safety position was as bad as it possibly could be before he got here. The Randall trade, even with all of his weirdness, was an absolute win for us (and that's assuming he's gone this offseason).

I'd also argue Dorsey has not 'decimated' the line. He certainly hasn't improved it, but our offensive scheme/playcalling and QB play has hurt the line more than offseason transactions.

I agree, Dorsey has done a good job upgrading the safety position, via FA, Trades, and the Draft, and Hassell is a young developmental player.

Burnett was having a pretty good season before his injury and subsequent IR.

Then we had one lose his marbles, but that does not speak of his play.

ABOUT THE BROWNS

1. The Browns young cornerbacks – Denzel Ward and Greedy Williams – had some tough moments in last Sunday’s 20-13 loss to the Steelers in Pittsburgh. The Browns would like Ward to be more aggressive in terms of battling receivers for the football. They want Williams to play tighter on receivers at times before the ball is snapped.

2. Cornerback is perhaps the second-hardest position for a young player behind quarterback. My only concern with Ward is him staying healthy. According to Profootballfocus (PFF), receivers covered by Ward have caught only 44 percent (21-of-47) of the passes tossed in their direction. He’s allowed one TD this season.

3. Ward had a lousy game against Pittsburgh, the receivers were 3-of-3 catching passes on him for 66 total yards. He gave up a 41-yarder. Williams was 1-of-3 defending pass-catchers against the Steelers, but the one catch went for 31 yards.

4. I’m not saying these guys have been great. Both dealt with early-season hamstring injuries. How does that happen? Anyway, receivers have caught 53 percent (18-of-34) of the passes when defended by Williams, one for a TD.

5. According to PFF, the Browns cornerback who has struggled the most is T.J. Carrie. Receivers have caught 37-of-51 passes against him, including four for TDs. It’s possible some of PFF’s rating are off because they don’t know all the coverages. But in general, they do give some idea of how the defensive backs are playing.

6. An issue is that Ward and Williams do not have an interception this season. Nor does safety Damarious Randall. A year ago, Randall led the Browns with four interceptions, Ward had three. Williams was at LSU.

7. Linebacker Joe Schobert leads the Browns with four interceptions, safety Juston Burris has two. The team has 11, which is tied for seventh most in the NFL.

8. Some Browns fans were upset that the team cut Chris Smith, whose girlfriend was killed in a Sept. 11 car accident. The NFL is a cold, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league. Smith had only one tackle in 144 snaps this season. The defensive lineman was not playing well at all. The tragedy probably had a major impact on his performance.

9. Smith will be paid his full $2.7 million salary for the season. Before the 2018 season, he signed a three-year, $12-million deal, not all guaranteed. He will be paid about $6.2 million for his two years with the Browns.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12...the-future.html

Considering Ward and Greedy, I think, if there are veteran players at the position who played well in the past, and the team decides to start young inexperienced players who play bad in the present,
Then the team was wrong.

j/c...

Not sure where else to put this....

I am astounded at the lack of attention by Dorsey for the TE position. Every week I watch lesser QBs throw the ball over and over again to a wide open TE or TEs with an S.

Andrews and Ertz make catches that OBJ can't/won't and our TE gives up an interception-via-handoff, and another catches a ball in the endzone with no effort to get his feet in bounds or catches a ball with both hands and drops it when hitting the ground.

Our best option is an undrafted, practice squad player. Njoku's long-awaited return was a disaster. Harris has been just north of bad. RSJ looked decent for about (5) quarters.

At some point in the off-season, someone other than me will write an article about the Browns' over-blown expectations for 2019 with all the newly acquired weapons. If that article doesn't include the following, we'll know that the author knows not of what he speaks:

The OBJ trade - Man what a weapon. He's coming to be with his 'boy' Jarvis. It'll be glorious. It's been a huge disappointment. But at the time of acquisition, it seemed like the offense got more explosive.

The Hunt signing - Man o' man. Chubb and Hunt together? No way. The hype was real then and the results now have been very, very good. BUT...the hype machine wouldn't recognize that the hype in this regard shouldn't even be mentioned as hype until after week 10. Silly facts.

Let's see...what other weapons-added am I missing? The answer? None. We added OBJ - who has been a huge disappointment - and got Hunt AFTER WEEK 10. What do the talking heads say? "How can the Browns be struggling so much with all those new weapons?" The answer is in this paragraph...ONE new, disappointing weapon and one stud guy added for the last 1/3-ish of the season.

What are they/we NOT talking about?

We decimated the TE and hybrid-FB position. Fells has moved on to become a security blanket for his new team. Charles is in Canada, but was effective here last year. His role was not filled. Even if Njoku didn't get hurt, we'd still have non-blocking, no-catching guys behind him. But...who needs a TE? Just watch L Jackson, Wentz and Watson this week and come back to this thread...not to mention Kelce and the good he does for his QB.

We completely muffed the RG position. Yes, it was a gamble...but it was a FAILED gamble. We've beaten this horse to death...however...the "weapons-praising" talking heads seem to never mention that an OL with poor tackles was cut-down by trading away a Pro Bowl Guard.

Who did we have at RB behind Chubb? Me? Once Duke was gone, we decided that Hilliard would fill the void for 2/3ish of the season. That was a very poor decision. This isn't about Duke leaving, it's about not having a viable RB behind Chubb until week 11. The Steelers and Ravens regularly throw out their 2nd, 3rd or 4th RBs and they get their job done.

Our roster makeup is odd. We have (4) RBs. None is a fullback-type. One seemingly hasn't actually played at RB all year and the other won't likely do so again.

We have (5) TE's on the roster and not ONE of them brings as much to the table as does the backup TE for the Ravens & Eagles...maybe other teams as well. I don't recollect the (2) TE set being a staple this year either.

We have (6) WRs on the roster and use essentially (2) on offense.

Note: I know that the RBs, TEs, and WRs play special teams. But we have an offense to run as well.

Disclaimer: I purposely left out discussing the defense and the new-and-regressed play-calling that doesn't match the roster.

Net off-season result?

Gains - or should have been gains:

OBJ and Hunt x 1/3

Losses:

Duke, Fells, Charles, Perriman, Zeitler & 1st Rd draft pick opportunity. We did not get better players than last year at any of those spots - except RB but not until week 11 and WR...maybe. On the WR, I'd say that Perriman plus a utilized-Higgins last year was more effective than OBJ this year.

Just another log on the fire I suppose.

Fells has been a curious case to me and sorta backs up my theory Dorsey hasn't a plan. We signed him last year to a 3 yr deal for an exorbitant amount of money, in other words I think it was the highest contract he's ever seen. Then we cut him to start this season. I mean it's like a game, signing and cutting players just for fun because we can. Makes no sense. I think we are actually paying him not to play here this year.