DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Ohio bill orders doctors to ‘reimplant ectopic pregnancy’ or face 'abortion murder' charges

I forgot this state is filled with psycho conservative Christians. Ohio is losing its swing state reputation, and good lord, this procedure doesn’t even exist:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-bill-orders-doctors-reimplant-085424596.html

A bill to ban abortion introduced in the Ohio state legislature requires doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”.

This is the second time practising obstetricians and gynecologists have tried to tell the Ohio legislators that the idea is currently medically impossible.

The move comes amid a wave of increasingly severe anti-abortion bills introduced across much of the country as conservative Republican politicians seek to ban abortion and force a legal showdown on abortion with the supreme court.

Ohio’s move on ectopic pregnancies – where an embryo implants on the mother’s fallopian tube rather than her uterus rendering the pregnancy unviable – is one of the most extreme bills to date.

“I don’t believe I’m typing this again but, that’s impossible,” wrote Ohio obstetrician and gynecologist Dr David Hackney on Twitter. “We’ll all be going to jail,” he said.

An ectopic pregnancy is a life-threatening condition, which can kill a woman if the embryonic tissue grows unchecked.

In addition to ordering doctors to do the impossible or face criminal charges, House Bill 413 bans abortion outright and defines a fertilized egg as an “unborn child”.

It also appears to punish doctors, women and children as young as 13 with “abortion murder” if they “perform or have an abortion”. This crime is punishable by life in prison. Another new crime, “aggravated abortion murder”, is punishable by death, according to the bill.

The bill is sponsored by representatives Candice Keller and Ron Hood, and co-sponsored by 19 members of Ohio’s 99-member House.

Mike Gonidakis, the president of the anti-abortion group Ohio Right to Life, declined to comment on the bill, and said he was still reading the legislation because, it’s “approximately 700 pages long”. He said his office is “taking off the rest of the week for Thanksgiving”.

The Guardian also contacted the Susan B Anthony List, a national anti-abortion organization. The organization did not reply to a request for comment.

Keller, Hood and eight of the bill’s 19 co-sponsors did not reply to requests for comment. The Ohio Prosecuting Attorneys Association also did not reply to a request for comment.

Ohio passed a six-week abortion ban last summer. The “heartbeat bill”, as supporters called it, banned abortion before most women know they are pregnant. Reproductive rights groups immediately sued, and the bill never went into effect. Abortion is legal in all 50 US states.

In May, researcher Dr David Grossman argued reimplanting a fertilized egg or embryo is “pure science fiction” in a Twitter thread that went viral in May, when the bill was first introduced.

“There is no procedure to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy,” said Dr Chris Zahn, vice-president of practice activities at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. “It is not possible to move an ectopic pregnancy from a fallopian tube, or anywhere else it might have implanted, to the uterus,” he said.

“Reimplantation is not physiologically possible. Women with ectopic pregnancies are at risk for catastrophic hemorrhage and death in the setting of an ectopic pregnancy, and treating the ectopic pregnancy can certainly save a mom’s life,” said Zahn.

________

Ohio, where if you aren’t a straight white conservative male, then you ought to be controlled by one, especially of you’re a woman.

Disgusting.

Treating women like breeding stock.

Christian Taliban right here in Ohio.

This procedure seems a bit of a stretch but I am glad to see the focus changing from death to life in this country.

We have been a culture of death for far too long.

Its time we return to being a culture of life and self responsibility.

I'll just leave this here for all to consider a bit more in-depth:

And I leave my entire post for all to consider a bit more in-depth.

I'd posit that we live in a culture that writes laws which eschew science and common sense. Laws that turn medical procedures into criminal acts. Laws that specifically appeal to ignorance, outrage and superstition.

Oh, let us give thanks and be grateful that we have such people in our midst.

[/purple]

Even I think this part of the bill is asinine.



I can't agree with this part either unless there are exceptions for the mothers health.



OK this part I agree with, and I am glad to see it.



OK The prison term I don't have a problem with either (as long as the bill is amended to allow exceptions for the mothers health)The punishable by death part is also asinine and should never be passed.

The way this is written even I think it should fail and never see the light of day.

...I'm still trying to figure out why a woman would co-sponsor that bill.

She sounds... love..ly....

I'd say your ideas of science have 2 sides with many questions still to be resolved.

I'd say your ideas supporting the deaths of our unborn citizens while crying for illegals to flood our borders is not common and is certainly not sense.

So much for the party that promotes "individual" freedom.

Perhaps slaughtering tens of millions of innocent future citizens is an "individual" freedom no one should have.

I am glad our state is considering life instead of death. Abortion stops a beating heart.

There is only one side to this fact: an ectopic pregnancy cannot be moved to a woman's uterus, and to leave it in place is a death sentence for the woman.

Choose life, you science/facts-averse hypocrite.

_________________________


And the rest of your sad diatribe
Makes me think that cheap booze you imbibe.
Here's a hint: try less beverage
If you want more leverage
Exerted, the next time you scribe.

pffft.

Our government is run by idiots.

There are already too many uneducated, unloved, easily manipulated idiots in this world as it is, and christians want more... I wonder why? Unborn means not yet a person, citizen, or life. Stop the nonsense.

Because idiots vote for them.

Especially when you stop his or her heart from beating.

Land of the Free... Unless your a woman

And the hypocritical talking point lives on

Which talking point are you referring to?

They're against anything that will keep them out of a woman's vagina.

I see how everyone is avoiding the actual facts as spelled out here ... religion should stay the F away from politics, and this pseudo concern for a collection of cells is fake. Once those cells transform themselves into a living breathing, unwanted individual living below the poverty line, all concern and care vanishes. They are happy for the government to tell women what they can / cannot do with the collection of cells - but once in the world there is no support for government help and support and it's all down to the individual. Hypocrites.

So they are against pretty much everything 'GOPer'?

Then they should start by working on their personalities.

I was with you until you started on the no support afterwards line. Limited support perhaps, but "extremism" (/"absolutism") isn't the tact to take.

WIC and other programs exist. Link
I haven't seen anyone arguing against such programs here. Pregnancy support centers are also something that many people against abortion support.

I'll reiterate I think this bill is ridiculous. Just making stuff up is a Trump move, though.

Because Candice Keller is a raving lunatic. A little background on her....

The chairwoman of the Ohio Republican Party called on Monday for the resignation of State Representative Candice Keller, a fellow Republican who one day earlier said mass shootings were the result of such factors as “homosexual marriage,” “drag queen advocates” and “recreational marijuana.”

....In the post, Ms. Keller, 60, who represents Butler County, a suburban and rural area about 30 miles southwest of Dayton, listed several factors that she said had led to mass shootings.....

Among those, she included “professional athletes who hate our flag and National Anthem,” “snowflakes who can’t accept a duly-elected President” and a culture “which totally ignores the importance of God.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/us/candice-keller-ohio.html

It makes sense when you consider the fact that republicans are constantly trying to take away those programs.

You are right that absolutes are wrong and "never" and "always" aren't good terms to use in a debate.

That said - the ones arguing for the government to determine what the woman can do with the collection of cells in her body are also 'normally' the ones also fighting to minimize any government assistance and support to those in need and below the poverty line.

With that resume, she has a shot to be Trump's running mate.

Sure, things like WIC and Medicaid are available... but look at how republicans look down upon anyone receiving public assistence. They are degraded.

Take an 16 year old Rape Victim.. Should she be required to have the baby? Personally, I don't believe she should. Make that a 20 year old Rape Victim.... I don't think she should be required to have the baby either.

We old white men are telling a young girl what she can and can't do with her own body ....I just don't think that's right.

Having said that, I'm not at all for abortion, but geez, some common sense might be nice.

I'm right with you more or less.

It was the presenting generalities as absolutes that I thought could have been better said. Such hyperbole has a tendency to turn threads into shouting matches, and there isn't much discussion that goes on. Sides typically just double down into the more extreme expression of their base views.

I am pro-life but that is idiotic.... ectopic pregnancy is rare and basically not viable...no need for this bill...

Want idiotic?
How about this display from the anti science psycho right...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.insider...ed-eggs-2019-11

“A Pennsylvania bill would require death certificates for fertilized eggs that never implant in the uterus”
Anti-abortion lawmakers in Pennsylvania want to pass a bill that would require health providers to arrange burials or cremations for all of a person's "fetal remains," which under the lawmakers' terms, includes fertilized eggs that never implanted in the uterus.

But fertilized eggs must divide to become the ball of cells that implants in the uterus for a pregnancy to occur.

The proposed bill also means health providers would have to obtain death certificates for all fertilized, but not implanted, eggs, since in order to to obtain a burial permit, you first have to obtain a death certificate, Christine Castro, a staff attorney at the Pennsylvania-based Women's Law Project, told Vice. "The bill is written in a misleading way," she said.


If the bill, known as the "Pennsylvania Final Disposition of Fetal Remains Act," passes and isn't followed, it could result in a $50 to $300 fine or up to 30 days in prison for providers.

The problem is women, and even their doctors, can't track when or how many fertilized eggs don't implant in the uterus because those eggs typically dissolve in utero and are shed through a woman's menstrual lining every month, making them undetectable.

It's common for fertilized eggs to not implant in the uterus
According to University of California San Francisco Health, only half of a woman's fertilized eggs will naturally implant in her uterus.

The other 50% of those fertilized eggs that don't implant dissolve in the body and are expelled through a woman's uterine lining, which she naturally sheds during her menstrual cycle, according to University of Wisconsin-Madison's School of Medicine and Public Health. Newly fertilized eggs are about the size of a pinhead, according to the National Institutes of Health.


When the lining sheds, it results in the bleeding women experience every 28 or so days. Because of this, non-implanted fertilized eggs are neither detectable nor able to become blastocysts, then embryos, then fetuses, and eventually, babies.

The only time a fertilized egg that hasn't implanted in the uterus is detectable is if a woman has an ectopic pregnancy, which occurs when a fertilized egg attaches itself outside the uterus where it can't grow. In this case, the egg is detectable but must be surgically removed from the woman's body immediately to prevent health complications like ruptured fallopian tubes, Insider previously reported.

The bill also ignores the science-backed definition of "pregnancy"
ultrasound
A fertilized egg must multiply to
House Bill 1890 also ignores the science-backed definition of pregnancy because it says that all fertilized eggs are "unborn children."


According to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, non-implanted but fertilized eggs are actually single-cell zygotes, which have to divide before becoming the ball of cells called a blastocyst that eventually implant in the wall of the uterus, according to ACOG.

It's not until a fertilized egg has been successfully implanted in the uterus that ACOG considers it a pregnancy. Once the implanted and fertilized egg reaches nine weeks in the uterus, it is referred to as a fetus, according to ACOG.

This isn't the time a pregnancy-related bill has been scientifically inaccurate
Anti-abortion legislators in Ohio also recently presented a scientifically unsound abortion bill.

On November 14, 20 Republican lawmakers proposed an abortion ban that would, in most cases, consider doctors who perform abortions guilty of aggravated murder and require doctors to attempt to reimplant ectopic pregnancies in the uterus, Insider previously reported.

The Ohio proposal ignores the fact that reimplanting an ectopic pregnancy is "physiologically impossible," Dr. Chris Zahn, the vice president of practice activities at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, told Insider. In fact, attempting that is extremely dangerous, and the technology needed to do it doesn't even exist.

——————————

So are women in Pennsylvania supposed to send their used pads and tampons to the state every month to have them checked for fertilized eggs?

I am on the fence about this subject. Some woman can not handle this (and I am not 100 percent sure that they should have to) and some woman keep the babies and raise them, while others have them and put them up for adoption. This is one of those questions that I wrestle with myself.



Us old white men also tell people they can not shoot their neighbors, family, friends or strangers. Do you have a problem with that? We tell folks they can not kill their 1 day old, 3 day, old, 3 week old, 3 month old, or 13 year old babies. Do you have a problem with that?


The common sense we agree on. We just disagree with what common sense is. IMO killing babies is wrong.... no common sense even needed.

ok boomer.

Thanks old man lol

How can you possibly be on the fence on Rape victims rights. Come on GM,,

Old white men saying you can't shoot your neighbor is way different than old while men telling a girl what she can and can't do with her body....

I believe she should be able to do whatever she wants to her body. But not to the babies body.

It’s not a baby, it’s a cell cluster.
How many times have we gone over this basic biology lesson?

Not only is it a cell cluster, but it’s one put there against the will of the host. Defending anything but her choice in this decision is absurd.

And sorry. No 16 year old is ready to have a child. I don’t care about anyone’s anecdotal story. At 16 you’re not educated enough to thrive in today’s world. At 16 you don’t have the life experience to create a healthy adult ‘you’ while raising another being to also be healthy. At 16 you’re setting yourself up for missing some very important years of maturation through life lessons, love/loss, etc, while you raise a child. At 16 you shouldn’t have to raise someone’s RAPE BABY! Period. No one should. At any age. Period! If someone wants to make that choice. Fine. Forcing it is disgusting.