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It seems you left out a possible but very important part in your guesses as to what might be wrong. Baker...

I'm not saying that's the problem. But many of us have seen him overlook open WR's on many occasions. Could it be as simple as Baker doesn't have the confidence or isn't looking as hard for OBJ to be open than he is Landry?

The reason I bring this up is because so many posters said that Higgins seemed like Baker's security blanket last year. They were upset that Higgins wasn't playing more. This year it seems like Landry is that security blanket.

One of the bigger disappointments we’ve had ... his production couldn’t be much worse given his talent and the talent around him.

Yesterday ... 3 catches for 29 yards in the biggest game of the year?? Nonsense.

IMO, our team culture changed drastically when he was acquired ... Baker was no longer the alpha, our O was tailored to make him happy, and it took us a LONG time to adjust (and we still haven’t).

Probably a move that Dorsey wouldn’t do over given the hindsight

I don't think the problem is odell, he's been a good soldier and has actually been behaved despite not getting the targets...he can't throw himself the ball

Our coaches can't seem to work out how to get him the ball and plays are taking too long to develop given our Oline issues. Add on top of it Baker missing him in his reads and it relegates OBJ to a blocker for Harris rather than a legit threat up high, on the wing or in the flat.

I think coaches and Dorsey are to blame. Coaches because they can't seem to work out how best to utilize the amazing talent that they have been given. Dorsey because our Oline was a known weakness, yet he didn't address it in the offseason and it has plagued us all year.

What's a Odell?

Freddie and Baker are the problem. The scheme is trash, and Baker has not been accurate this year, mainly because of his poor mechanics.

That pretty much sums it up

3 catches for 29 yards for Odell AND we didn't run it nearly enough in the second half.

Those 2 things happened in the same game.

The only other thing I will say is that we target OBJ a fair amount, but those plays aren't getting there.

He had 161 yards week 2
he had 101 yards week 6

Yet it's the two OT's that seem to be the problem. The exact same OT's we had during the last half of last season. You remember, when we were winning?

As I said at OTA"s Odell hurt himself and the team by not showing up. He also hurt the team by not being able to play in training camp or the pre season. If he want's to complain about his numbers this year he needs to look in the mirror to see the biggest problem. Aslso with both or our Offensive tackles sucking we have not been able to go deep this year without getting Baker killed.

Cleveland Browns' use of Odell Beckham Jr. remains baffling

Through their first 12 games, the Cleveland Browns have failed to properly integrate Odell Beckham Jr. into their offense.
Author: Ben Axelrod

Updated: 3:27 PM EST December 2, 2019

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...d1-bd775d19077d
CLEVELAND — Following his team's 41-24 victory over the Miami Dolphins last week, Cleveland Browns wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. made an interesting remark about the 35-yard touchdown catch he made in the first quarter.

"It was what it was," Beckham said. "I wasn't super excited about it knowing and feeling the disappointment that I should have been in [the end zone] a long time ago, so it was pretty mixed emotions."

Beckham didn't stick around to talk to reporters four days later after the Browns' 20-13 loss to the Steelers in Pittsburgh.

Suffice to say, there wasn't anything mixed about his emotions on Sunday.

After seeing his involvement increase over the course of what wound up being a three-game winning streak, the Browns' prized offseason acquisition was once again an afterthought in another Cleveland loss. Targeted just six times, Beckham tallied three catches for 29 yards, which marked his least productive output since he caught two balls for 27 yards in the Browns' 31-3 loss to the San Francisco 49ers on Oct. 27.

To say that Beckham's debut season in Cleveland has been underwhelming would be an understatement, as any Browns fan (or Beckham fantasy football owner) would be the first to tell you. Through 12 games, the 2014 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year has recorded 57 passes for 805 yards and 2 touchdowns, which puts him on pace for the least productive year of his career (excluding his 2017 campaign, which was marred by injury).

Beckham isn't blameless and it's worth noting that his current 55.3 catch percentage (receptions divided by targets) is the worst of his career. And his six drops this season are currently tied for the fifth-most in the NFL with four games still remaining in the 2019 campaign.

But considering the expectations that were placed on both the Browns and Beckham this season -- and the step forward Beckham was supposed to take with Baker Mayfield as his quarterback -- the lack of cohesion between the two entities to this point remains nothing short of baffling. With Cleveland's playoff hopes on the line against the Steelers on Sunday, the Browns targeted their star wide receiver just six times -- which matched two other occasions this year for a season-low.

“I tried to call plays that work. I try to call plays to get him open. I try to call plays to move the ball," Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens said after the game. "I think we played the type of game we needed to play to come in here and win."

Only the Browns didn't win and Beckham's lack of involvement could be considered one of the many reasons why. It's not a coincidence that over the course of Cleveland's three-game winning streak, the LSU product was targeted a total of 30 times. And while that didn't always translate into production for Beckham, it clearly helped open up holes in opposing defenses for the likes of Jarvis Landry, Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt.

As he showed when he caught a 42-yard bomb on the opening drive of the Browns' 21-7 win over the Steelers on Nov. 14, Beckham is capable of changing any game with just one play, so long as he's given ample opportunity to do just that. And while Kitchens insisted that his star wideout's lack of involvement was the result of a run-heavy game plan, that doesn't change the fact that Cleveland attempted 32 passes on Sunday and attempted just six total runs in the second half.

For Beckham to only get six targets in a game renders him little more than a decoy and calls into question why the Browns acquired him for such a massive haul in the offseason in the first place. Asked about Beckham's lack of touches, Mayfield -- for at least the second time this season -- called it "frustrating."

Based on Beckham's lack of availability comment, he clearly wasn't the only one to feel such sentiment.

Cant remember which one but a commentator on a halftime show said the playcalling was atrocious

The problem with Beckham is Baker Mayfield.

Mayfield has been awful for most of the year. He puts up decent games against the likes of the Dolphins, but any team that even has even an average secondary or average coaching and he absolutely sucks.

I have seen enough this year to know the chances of Mayfield being our answer at QB is less then 5% he isn't very good. His wife calling out reporters defending him is making the Browns look even worse, she should just shush she is making the whole thing worse.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker...kitchens-shirt/

I honestly don't see why we even took him at the Top of the draft. He is short, slow, with an above average arm. That pass he threw way too high to Harris in the endzone cost us the game pretty much.

If the Browns are smart, they go out and Hire Rex Ryan as HC, they go out and Sign Teddy Bridgewater as QB and make Mayfield sit his arse down. I guarantee you Bridgewater will feed Beckham the damn football.

Rex Ryan would die to have a backfield of Hunt and Chubb you kidding me? and a DE like Garret....if getting Rex Ryan means getting rid of Dorsey than do it. Enough of this nonsense.Rex Ryan brings up back to that hard nosed kick your teethin in Browns football of the 80's. Make it happen!

Are you sure its the coaches and not the guy throwing the ball? How do you know what play is called and who is primary?

I'm not going to say I totally agree with KOB but he does make a point. Baker has not been accurate this season as a whole. He has streaks where he looks good and then seems to fall apart. The second half of the Steelers game for example. He certainly was not consistently accurate.

And I can't say for sure if he's missing an open Odell. Because you are right that it's very hard to tell about a specific WR on every play. But I have certainly seen him missing open WR's on many plays and some have even been shown on replay on the TV. So it stands to reason that it's a legitimate question in regards to Odell.

I believe Baker is still a work in progress. But there's little doubt that his accuracy and finding the open man has been a consistent problem this season.

Yes, Rex is such a great coach, that's why hes on TV - he didn't know which team to chose an offer from

You are right tho, Rex would die - because he would be so startled at an offer he would have a heart attack.

What?

We would be lucky to get Rex Ryan.

Do you realize Rex Ryan is the only NFL coach pretty much to go into Foxboro IN THE PLAYOFFS and Beat Bellichik and Brady in their primes in the postseason? He did this with Mark Sanchez at QB for crying out loud!

Did you also know he shut the Patriots out at Foxboro 16-0 in 2016 with a crap Bills team.

Rex Ryan would be the best coach we have had here since Schotenheimer. We would be crazy not to hire him. If your tired of losing, either him or McCarthy are the only two proven guys out there with actual playoff wins under their belt.

We won't win anything with Fat Boy and Midget man.

OBJ is pretty much always open when I focus on him from my seat, he constantly beats his man, the problem is Baker. Baker makes one read then rolls to the right and doesn't see him. If Baker could go through his progressions he would catch OBJ open all the time for big plays.

I put this on Coaching....

when odell actually gets the ball, he's making things happen.

as bad as our offense has looked under freddie and an inaccurate Baker, lets be real here about our WRs:

Jarvis landry has 65 catches for 919 yards.
OBJ has 57 catches for 805 yards.

and none of them have missed a game.

if OBJ averages 50 yards over the next 4 games, he's over 1000. jarvis should crack that next week.

these guys are performing when given a chance.

but again, we have a coach who calls crap plays, and a QB unwilling to show that same gunslinger mentality he showed last season.

give us rookie season Mayfield, and we'd be having an entirely different convo about OBJ, regardless of freddie's crap calling.

My unpopular opinion: I dont feel that OBJ tries hard enough. I feel he is skating and counting the days until he can leave Cle. He doesnt really seem like he engages his teammates unless their name is Landry.

I suggest Baker looks like crap and makes the wrong decisions because he has been told who to get the ball to before the play. Suddenly taking too long, holding it too long, staring the Chosen down, taking sacks waiting for that guy to get open, forcing the ball into double coverage, throwing late and behind, a number of bad pieces make sense.

The short checkdown and these three-story misses are making me crazy. I don't expect perfection, just a good deal better. Because it seems to be the new normal.

The offensive problems have always been Freddie. Baker is an above-average QB in his sophomore slump season and everyone can see it.

The playcalling has been more atrocious than Mo Carton.

The problem with Odell is that none of our other receivers scare other teams. Landry is good, but he's not someone you give over the top help. Other teams take Odell away early when he's the first read, then once Baker gets frustrated and we move away from looking for OBJ, defenses mix things up. Once teams stop focusing on OBJ, other guys aren't so open and Baker struggles with the change up.

It's a working theory. Haven't had the motivation to go back and watch the games he's struggled in. Once was enough. I'll probably go back after the season once there's some distance from the emotion.

A part of it is Baker, but I think it stems from the OL woes. The rush is in his head. Trading Zeitler ruined the wall in front of him.

I have long felt a good guards and a good center are most important for a QB. If the QB knows his front is going to be protected, the QB can help the tackles by stepping up even a few feet.

The tackles can then just not get beat inside. Get beat wide, not a big problem with a QB who steps up, that puts the tackles back in to position.

If we get the line in shape, Baker will be in shape...he was sacked what, 5 times yesterday. It's easy for you to say get rid of the ball faster, or make quicker reads, but I don't think he held the ball yesterday. He was consumed up the middle rather quickly. Now all of a sudden the QB isn't making reads, he is making a single read to get it out.

Then Odell has the time to get in to his routes and all is good. It's just not going to happen this year.

I could see our first two picks being O-line picks.

Let's not forget all the two-handed drops. Or how poorly he catches when tightly covered. So far, I'm unimpressed.

Only if you can hold your team together long enough to get it going in the right direction while hopefully putting out the correct fires and not jettisoning perfectly good players & coaches.



OBJ has had problems.
Baker has had problems.
The OLine has had a ton of problems.
Higgins has had problems.
Freddie & Whatshisname have had problems.

The 'O', in general, is like an old flathead with bad points. It could run like a champ, but at best it just sputters here and there right now.

Wish we still had Zeitler.

Haven't seen any problems with OBJ, honestly
OL is playing well the run game

When Baker is not dink donking he is a turnover machine. And dink donking is a waste of the best WR's in the league.

J/c

The drops are a concern for sure. He’s been anything but reliable and consistent ... whether it’s his fault, Baker’s, the coaching, etc.

Last year Landry had more drops and nobody was worried.

Both OBJ and Landry are great receivers, much better receivers than Baker will ever be a QB.

yep, hes such a great coach that's why hes unemployed.

No? The big time drops of balls hitting him right in the hands is not a problem? Running wrong routes has not been a problem?

When? Ohh running wrong routes, I see where you want to go..

Which big time drops are you referring? The ones that were never thrown?

I don't think its a very good idea to try to excuse Baker blaming Landry and OBJ...