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willitevachange #1702127 12/03/19 11:03 AM
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No Rex Ryan. We have problems, but no.


"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
bonefish #1702131 12/03/19 11:11 AM
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To get back on topic.

What the Browns "should do" is go out and sign Teddy Bridgewater to a contact in the offseason. This should not be hard considering we have Hunt, Chubb, OBJ, and Landry I don't think there is a better situation for him.

I have ZERO doubts that Bridgewater can't beat Mayfield out on camp. Mayfield isn't that good, he is too short, he is atrocious in reading coverages. Bridgewater would be a HUGE upgrade at the QB position.

If we ever want Mayfield to amount to anything we need to humble this kid, and we do it by showing him that NOTHING is just handed to you in the world. He isn't entitled to a starting position just because he was the 1st pick in the draft. He needs real compeition to compete for his spot like everyone else.

In this business you either step up or you step aside.

Again Mayfield is all hype a very little substance...im pretty much 99.9% certain he couldn't beat Teddy Bridgewater out in camp. Did you see what Bridewater did when Brees was hurt?

9 TD
2 INTS
98.9 QBR
1,370 yards
67.7 completion percentage.

Considering we should have drafted Bridgewater anyways, its makes sense. Bring him in, either Baker will work his tail off and kick, scratch, claw, and find a way to beat him out, or he won't...either way we get our QB position upgrade. We have left Mayfield get comfortable and feel entitled to have that position, he has no one to compete with. Competition is healthy, it brings out the best in players, if every other position on this roster has to compete to keep their jobs, so should Mayfield.

rastanplan #1702132 12/03/19 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Manage your team right and you can win a championship.

And here we are.



Only if you can hold your team together long enough to get it going in the right direction while hopefully putting out the correct fires and not jettisoning perfectly good players & coaches.



OBJ has had problems.
Baker has had problems.
The OLine has had a ton of problems.
Higgins has had problems.
Freddie & Whatshisname have had problems.

The 'O', in general, is like an old flathead with bad points. It could run like a champ, but at best it just sputters here and there right now.


Haven't seen any problems with OBJ, honestly
OL is playing well the run game

When Baker is not dink donking he is a turnover machine. And dink donking is a waste of the best WR's in the league.
No? The big time drops of balls hitting him right in the hands is not a problem? Running wrong routes has not been a problem?


When? Ohh running wrong routes, I see where you want to go..

Which big time drops are you referring? The ones that were never thrown?

I don't think its a very good idea to try to excuse Baker blaming Landry and OBJ...
Do you watch he games? He's dropped MULTIPLE 3rd down passes right in his hands.

Where did I excuse baker? it was replied there were not problems with OBJ, I pointed out he has had SEVERAL drops.

Hes also caused unneeded distractions over shoes and visors, and had to be taken out of a game on a key drive in the RedZone over said visor.

YOU constantly bash baker on this board, and then not give any blame to ANYONE but Baker, yet your going to try to call me out for baking baker when I never even said his damn name?! Theres a word for that ya know?

And yes, running wrong routes has been reported, and discussed. Pointing that out does not mean that baker still doesn't need work. But DO NOT try to sit there TROLLING as you do, saying that its all on baker, when obviously this mess STARTS at the top with Haslam/Dorsey/Kitchens and works it way down.

Your a joke.

Knight_Of_Brown #1702133 12/03/19 11:15 AM
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If we ever want Mayfield to amount to anything we need to humble this kid, and we do it by showing him that NOTHING is just handed to you in the world.
Yeah, the kid who walked on a team to win the FREAKING HEISMAN has had it alllll handed to him. lol. Your another joke.

bonefish #1702135 12/03/19 11:18 AM
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We were a team on the move ( up ) the second half of last season . Reasonable men would state " if it ain't broke don't fix it "

Dorsey decides to fix it ! Unfortunately William was a way to strong Coach for John ( as some of us pointed out ) We ended up moving all the major Coaching positions .. See we Fixed it but good !

many times Porsche parts will not work in Fords .. ( OBJ )

In the old days we would need to reset the timing ..lol

willitevachange #1702136 12/03/19 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Manage your team right and you can win a championship.

And here we are.



Only if you can hold your team together long enough to get it going in the right direction while hopefully putting out the correct fires and not jettisoning perfectly good players & coaches.



OBJ has had problems.
Baker has had problems.
The OLine has had a ton of problems.
Higgins has had problems.
Freddie & Whatshisname have had problems.

The 'O', in general, is like an old flathead with bad points. It could run like a champ, but at best it just sputters here and there right now.


Haven't seen any problems with OBJ, honestly
OL is playing well the run game

When Baker is not dink donking he is a turnover machine. And dink donking is a waste of the best WR's in the league.
No? The big time drops of balls hitting him right in the hands is not a problem? Running wrong routes has not been a problem?


When? Ohh running wrong routes, I see where you want to go..

Which big time drops are you referring? The ones that were never thrown?

I don't think its a very good idea to try to excuse Baker blaming Landry and OBJ...
Do you watch he games? He's dropped MULTIPLE 3rd down passes right in his hands.

Where did I excuse baker? it was replied there were not problems with OBJ, I pointed out he has had SEVERAL drops.

Hes also caused unneeded distractions over shoes and visors, and had to be taken out of a game on a key drive in the RedZone over said visor.

YOU constantly bash baker on this board, and then not give any blame to ANYONE but Baker, yet your going to try to call me out for baking baker when I never even said his damn name?! Theres a word for that ya know?

And yes, running wrong routes has been reported, and discussed. Pointing that out does not mean that baker still doesn't need work. But DO NOT try to sit there TROLLING as you do, saying that its all on baker, when obviously this mess STARTS at the top with Haslam/Dorsey/Kitchens and works it way down.

Your a joke.


Joke is on anyone who says OBJ has problems catching balls and running routs.

OBJ has less drops than Landry last year,he also never had problems with drops even with Eli throwing.

We have 2 off the best receivers in the league, find the blame somewhere else.

waterdawg #1702137 12/03/19 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: waterdawg
We were a team on the move ( up ) the second half of last season . Reasonable men would state " if it ain't broke don't fix it "

Dorsey decides to fix it ! Unfortunately William was a way to strong Coach for John ( as some of us pointed out ) We ended up moving all the major Coaching positions .. See we Fixed it but good !

many times Porsche parts will not work in Fords .. ( OBJ )

In the old days we would need to reset the timing ..lol


Clearly we have a problem, we cannot win to good teams. Dorsey did the right thing bringing talent.

Its absurd to be criticizing the good players and the talent on this team.

And we can't win the race with the Ford, we need a racing car, so if the driver can't do it please hand the keys to someone else that can.

Last edited by rastanplan; 12/03/19 11:24 AM.
bonefish #1702142 12/03/19 11:27 AM
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Mayfield can't read a defense to save his life. This is why he only plays decent against crap secondaries like the Dolphins...if he doesn't know how to read a D by now, he is never going to learn.

Mayfield does ok against man coverage, but ANY zone..cover 2, cover 3, cover 4, etc...any zone coverage and the guy is lost completely.

The Steelers changed their D to zone and Mayfield fell apart. Mayfield is #1 reason we are 5-7 right now. No one in the Big 12 plays D, Oklahoma guys were wide open by 5 yards, most teams play man coverage. Baker has yet to show he can adjust even slightly to a zone D

Greg Willaims put out the book on Mayfield, show Man coverage pre-snap and then switch to a zone scheme and the kid is lost. Thats what Pittsburgh did in the 2nd half in all but one drive and Mayfield just stood back there holding the ball getting sacked.

Mayfield is what he is at this point. He isn't going to magically learn how to read zone overnight. Franchise QB, guys like Manning, Brees, Brady, etc...all those guys knew how to read zone D coming out of the draft, Mayfield is so far behind the curve.

Furthermore, I question if Mayfield has the will to really want it. Is he going to sit at home this offseason with nothing but a clicker and watch film 6 days a week for 4-5 hours a day after weight training and throwing? Is he going to humble himself and sit his rear end down and as Ray Lewis would say and figure out how to beat what the NFL is throwing at him?

I seriously question if he will do that. I think he is more interested in making commercials and being on Tv than he is being great at football. You don't see Brady, Rothlisberger, Brees, spending their offseason making commercials. I really hope he proves me wrong, but I doubt it.

He got outplayed by Duck Hodges for FFS a undrafted guy who was cut in training camp throwing to receivers that are castoffs and practice squad guys while Mayfield as OBJ and Landry? lol...get outta here...its obvious Mayfield wasn't willing to put in the time this offseason, and see nothing that tells me he will this offseason either.

go after Teddy Bridgewater and send a loud and clear message that the gravy train ride is over...either you focus on football or we will have a guy who will, plain and simple.

Knight_Of_Brown #1702146 12/03/19 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Mayfield can't read a defense to save his life. This is why he only plays decent against crap secondaries like the Dolphins...if he doesn't know how to read a D by now, he is never going to learn.

Mayfield does ok against man coverage, but ANY zone..cover 2, cover 3, cover 4, etc...any zone coverage and the guy is lost completely.

The Steelers changed their D to zone and Mayfield fell apart. Mayfield is #1 reason we are 5-7 right now. No one in the Big 12 plays D, Oklahoma guys were wide open by 5 yards, most teams play man coverage. Baker has yet to show he can adjust even slightly to a zone D

Greg Willaims put out the book on Mayfield, show Man coverage pre-snap and then switch to a zone scheme and the kid is lost. Thats what Pittsburgh did in the 2nd half in all but one drive and Mayfield just stood back there holding the ball getting sacked.

Mayfield is what he is at this point. He isn't going to magically learn how to read zone overnight. Franchise QB, guys like Manning, Brees, Brady, etc...all those guys knew how to read zone D coming out of the draft, Mayfield is so far behind the curve.

Furthermore, I question if Mayfield has the will to really want it. Is he going to sit at home this offseason with nothing but a clicker and watch film 6 days a week for 4-5 hours a day after weight training and throwing? Is he going to humble himself and sit his rear end down and as Ray Lewis would say and figure out how to beat what the NFL is throwing at him?

I seriously question if he will do that. I think he is more interested in making commercials and being on Tv than he is being great at football. You don't see Brady, Rothlisberger, Brees, spending their offseason making commercials. I really hope he proves me wrong, but I doubt it.

He got outplayed by Duck Hodges for FFS a undrafted guy who was cut in training camp throwing to receivers that are castoffs and practice squad guys while Mayfield as OBJ and Landry? lol...get outta here...its obvious Mayfield wasn't willing to put in the time this offseason, and see nothing that tells me he will this offseason either.

go after Teddy Bridgewater and send a loud and clear message that the gravy train ride is over...either you focus on football or we will have a guy who will, plain and simple.


Clearly Mayfield is not an elite QB, but he still is very good, we can face that fact and play to his strengths and build the O around Chubb and Hunt.

Honestly don't believe Baker is willing to take the back seat...

rastanplan #1702149 12/03/19 11:42 AM
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Baker has been so disappointing.

I think Knight is dramatic but Baker is just not screaming franchise QB. I think you build the team up around him ala Jarad Goff and see what happens. But John Dorsey has done a lot of damage to the team so I'm not even sure where you start to build it up.

We are back to normal Cleveland Browns football. Meaningless December and no excitement for next year.

willitevachange #1702150 12/03/19 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
If we ever want Mayfield to amount to anything we need to humble this kid, and we do it by showing him that NOTHING is just handed to you in the world.
Yeah, the kid who walked on a team to win the FREAKING HEISMAN has had it alllll handed to him. lol. Your another joke.


I don't care what he walked on to in college it means ZERO

Kyler Murray won the Heisman too, whats you point? Oklahoma is good with any bum at QB. Jalen Hurts looks pretty good right now with 31 TD 7 INTs, 71% completion percentage.

Mayfield is a 80's rated passer for his career. I expect that to fall into the 70's by the end of the year. 70's rated passers are backups at the NFL level. You keep riding the Mayfield hype train because thats all it is is hype.

A guy who can't even get his QBR in the mid 90's with both Landry and OBJ at WR with a ridiculous running game from Chubb and Hunt is NOT a franchise QB...Mayfield will be a backup in two years.

rastanplan #1702151 12/03/19 11:43 AM
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Joke is on anyone who says OBJ has problems catching balls and running routs.

OBJ has less drops than Landry last year,he also never had problems with drops even with Eli throwing.

We have 2 off the best receivers in the league, find the blame somewhere else.


hahaa you do realize you can run a good route and its still the WRONG route right? your comprehension is pooh.

I never said he couldn't run a route, I said he was running WRONG routes, which has been reported to be the case - yet you twist things to TROLL as you do.

FYI, Odell has more drops this year so far than he had ALL last year. DROPS meaning balls that should have been caught. Which means those are not on Baker.

Your right, he never had a problem dropping with Eli, maybe that's because HE PRACTICED and SHOWED up to camp in NY? lol which was the entire point on the post. banghead banghead banghead

We don't have the two best receivers in the league. We have two of the most TALENTED yes, but not the best. The best produce.

OBJ has not.

Oh and back to that, last year - he was top 3 in drops since 2016

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/...y-not-proud-of/

Knight_Of_Brown #1702153 12/03/19 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
If we ever want Mayfield to amount to anything we need to humble this kid, and we do it by showing him that NOTHING is just handed to you in the world.
Yeah, the kid who walked on a team to win the FREAKING HEISMAN has had it alllll handed to him. lol. Your another joke.


I don't care what he walked on to in college it means ZERO

Kyler Murray won the Heisman too, whats you point? Oklahoma is good with any bum at QB. Jalen Hurts looks pretty good right now with 31 TD 7 INTs, 71% completion percentage.

Mayfield is a 80's rated passer for his career. I expect that to fall into the 70's by the end of the year. 70's rated passers are backups at the NFL level. You keep riding the Mayfield hype train because thats all it is is hype.

A guy who can't even get his QBR in the mid 90's with both Landry and OBJ at WR with a ridiculous running game from Chubb and Hunt is NOT a franchise QB...Mayfield will be a backup in two years.
Yep, an entire new offense, and 0 oline has nothing to do with it. . . . . .

bonefish #1702158 12/03/19 11:49 AM
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I know i get pretty fired up about Mayfield and I apologize but the kid has so much potential and he is just peeing it away.

Todd Haley was right, Mayfield was too immature and wasn't ready for success in the NFL. He broke those records last year and he thought he had the NFL figured out, he thought "how hard can it be" no realizing that unlike college NFL d coordinators adjust.

The NFL has a way of humbling guys, and the only guys as QB who end up truly great are the guys who study, study, study, study...look at Tom Brady he isn't some gym rate..he spends 20% training and 80% watching film and studying.

it takes a lot of boring time to become a great QB like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rothlisberger...I question if Mayfield and his lifestyle is going to allow him to do that.

There are a lot of talented guys in the NFL, lots of talented guys come out of the draft every year...what separates the great players from the average and busts are the ones who spend the most time studying film and honing their craft...Mayfield has some real soul searching to do this offseason...if comes even remotely next year like this year, the NFL will swallow him its just how it is.

willitevachange #1702163 12/03/19 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
If we ever want Mayfield to amount to anything we need to humble this kid, and we do it by showing him that NOTHING is just handed to you in the world.
Yeah, the kid who walked on a team to win the FREAKING HEISMAN has had it alllll handed to him. lol. Your another joke.


I don't care what he walked on to in college it means ZERO

Kyler Murray won the Heisman too, whats you point? Oklahoma is good with any bum at QB. Jalen Hurts looks pretty good right now with 31 TD 7 INTs, 71% completion percentage.

Mayfield is a 80's rated passer for his career. I expect that to fall into the 70's by the end of the year. 70's rated passers are backups at the NFL level. You keep riding the Mayfield hype train because thats all it is is hype.

A guy who can't even get his QBR in the mid 90's with both Landry and OBJ at WR with a ridiculous running game from Chubb and Hunt is NOT a franchise QB...Mayfield will be a backup in two years.
Yep, an entire new offense, and 0 oline has nothing to do with it. . . . . .


Thats an excuse. If that makes you feel better about it, I am not going to say anymore.

Knight_Of_Brown #1702170 12/03/19 12:22 PM
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yeah, sure - that has no bearing on the Qb success saywhat

I also find it telling you keep bringing up BAKER literally in a thread titled ODELL. SMH. Keep you agenda to yourself

bonefish #1702188 12/03/19 12:52 PM
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I hope at some point we see the OBJ we expected to see when we traded for him. But at this point, I wouldn't be horribly upset if we moved him.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
OldColdDawg #1702193 12/03/19 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I hope at some point we see the OBJ we expected to see when we traded for him. But at this point, I wouldn't be horribly upset if we moved him.


Are we in any cap problem? Why would you trade on of the best Wr's in the league?

willitevachange #1702195 12/03/19 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
yeah, sure - that has no bearing on the Qb success saywhat

I also find it telling you keep bringing up BAKER literally in a thread titled ODELL. SMH. Keep you agenda to yourself


Because you are using everything to excuse him, including bashing OBJ

rastanplan #1702197 12/03/19 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
yeah, sure - that has no bearing on the Qb success saywhat

I also find it telling you keep bringing up BAKER literally in a thread titled ODELL. SMH. Keep you agenda to yourself


Because you are using everything to excuse him, including bashing OBJ
hahahahahaha you bash baker on every thread on this board (even when the title is ODELL) and I am the one making excuses???? Honestly, just admit your trolling at this point.

Odell has been a little above average this year as far as NFL WR go. Compared to his STANDARDS he has been pathetic.

Lets see, you want to hold Baker to the standards of Marino, Manning and Brady and are chastising him for a bad year in his second year....BUT the ALl world WR who has put up similar numbers to T. Pryor did who was a converted QB and in jail right nowj falls off a cliff, its not his fault...…

No one, NO ONE on this board said Baker was a HOF QB.

Everyone, EVERYONE on this board says Odell is a HOF talent WR. So why cant he produce like one and catch a damn ball on 3rd down?

bonefish #1702198 12/03/19 01:23 PM
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J/C

Literally VIDEO after VIDEO of Odell dropping balls on key plays....

its not something knew to him

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=odell+drops+bakers+pass&FORM=HDRSC3

Ballpeen #1702258 12/03/19 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
A part of it is Baker, but I think it stems from the OL woes. The rush is in his head. Trading Zeitler ruined the wall in front of him.

I have long felt a good guards and a good center are most important for a QB. If the QB knows his front is going to be protected, the QB can help the tackles by stepping up even a few feet.

The tackles can then just not get beat inside. Get beat wide, not a big problem with a QB who steps up, that puts the tackles back in to position.


I certainly agree that the exit of Zeitler was a mistake. I think that goes without saying. Where we disagree is that it seems you believe somehow the interior OL is more important in pass protection.

I don't have the stats, but what has stood out the most to me is the pressure allowed by both of our OT's. While I would certainly not consider or say that Robinson is a good LT, all you have to do is look at the performance of our OL in the two games Robinson was out to see the stark contrast.

There's a reason NFL OT's get paid so much more than other OL positions. I don't think opinions change the value NFL teams place on OT's.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1702355 12/03/19 09:34 PM
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Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]

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2023: The year we got a legit D.
willitevachange #1702397 12/04/19 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

Literally VIDEO after VIDEO of Odell dropping balls on key plays....

its not something knew to him

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=odell+drops+bakers+pass&FORM=HDRSC3


I see you are seriously questioning the hands of one of the all time great hands receiver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlDunVJKy0

lampdogg #1702399 12/04/19 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


Greg Robinson has 3 sacks allowed per PFF

Hubbard 5 sacks allowed per PFF

Both committed more penalties than sacks, and I think they deserve criticism for that. For not protecting the QB I think people are being unfair.

OL can improve in pass protection but they are far from being a major problem.

rastanplan #1702407 12/04/19 08:54 AM
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Quote:
And we can't win the race with the Ford, we need a racing car, so if the driver can't do it please hand the keys to someone else that can.


You need to run out and see this ASAP



I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
rastanplan #1702410 12/04/19 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


Greg Robinson has 3 sacks allowed per PFF

Hubbard 5 sacks allowed per PFF

Both committed more penalties than sacks, and I think they deserve criticism for that. For not protecting the QB I think people are being unfair.

OL can improve in pass protection but they are far from being a major problem.


To be fair though, it wouldn't matter if we had Joe Thomas clones playing both tackle positions.

Baker REFUSES to step UP into the pocket, when he slids left or right, it takes away the ability of the tackles to push guys wide and outside, our tackles are no where near as bad as Mayfield has made them look this year.

Mayfield won't step up in the pocket because he can't see over the line.

I really wished Garret Gilbert would have gotten a shot in the Steelers game, I think we would have won. Gilbert is a big boy at 6'4 223 pounds. He is a pocket passer and he will step up in the pocket and throw a ball with authority unlike Mayfield.

Just a small preview, but Gilbert looks the part of an NFL QB. Look how easily he can see over his line, look at how he doesn't panic when he has guys around him.

The best thing that could happen to the Browns this year is for Mayfield to get benched or put out of the game somehow so Gilbert can play...all of a sudden OBJ and and Landry will start tearing it...all of suddens balls won't be late no more, balls won't be thrown behind them no more, and OBJ will get those deep balls in 1v1 match ups.

Of course we won't get that lucky for Gilbert to be able to play..


rastanplan #1702417 12/04/19 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

Literally VIDEO after VIDEO of Odell dropping balls on key plays....

its not something knew to him

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=odell+drops+bakers+pass&FORM=HDRSC3


I see you are seriously questioning the hands of one of the all time great hands receiver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlDunVJKy0
Once again, reading is not your friend. I never said he couldn't catch, I said he drops balls in big moments. IDC how many 1 handers he can grab in warmups, when there are footsteps and its a big play, his lack of focus isn't there, and he drops balls. Focus and catching ability are two different things that can cause a player to drop a ball. I never said he didn't have catching ability. But keep on keeping on. Left to right, top to bottom, dictionary for the bigger words when you get stuck.

willitevachange #1702418 12/04/19 09:32 AM
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Just a thought but maybe Odell should practice catching the ball with two hands more before the games naughtydevil


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bonefish #1702419 12/04/19 09:42 AM
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Jc

I’m under the belief that our offensive guys thought we’d be able to just show up and out-talent teams and we didn’t put the time in together .. our preparation and urgency and work ethic have to improve collectively if we want different outcomes next year


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Dawgs4Life #1702421 12/04/19 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Jc

I’m under the belief that our offensive guys thought we’d be able to just show up and out-talent teams and we didn’t put the time in together .. our preparation and urgency and work ethic have to improve collectively if we want different outcomes next year


100% agree.

The problem is even if they do all that stuff it won't guarantee success or improvement. We now have huge question marks at coach and QB and we won't know the answer to those until next season starts playing out (assuming Freddie sticks around). Based on what I've seen I don't have a lot of confidence that Freddie will improve. I'm not sure about Baker. I will say this again...regardless of coaching, scheme, players around you...franchise QBs find a way to make winning plays when it matters most. Baker has had so many opportunities to make game winning plays late and fails way more than successful. He's not a winner.

We are in Jarad Goff territory with Baker...which is perfectly fine if we have good coaching, playcalling, and system. Baker can be the Jarad Goff of last year and lead this team to a Super Bowl but the other parts have to be functioning perfectly.

Does anyone expect that to happen under Freddie? I'd be nervous about that. Mark my words...you go into next year with Freddie as coach and it will be another wasted season.

Rishuz #1702458 12/04/19 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Does anyone expect that to happen under Freddie?


No.

I've seen no evidence that he's growing as a HC as the season drags along into the annual traditional of meaningless football in December.

It's the same game day mistakes, the same inane answers during pressers, he doubles down defiantly on his dumb decision making (end of half against Seattle, the t-shirt, etc.), taking a penalty to make it 4th & 16 instead of 4th & 11 because the ST unit ran out which speaks to him not being 1 or steps ahead and a lack of communication on the sideline, losing twice to 3rd string QBs, the list goes on.

Some sign of improvement in his role as a HC would give me some shred of hope, but I just do not see it right now.

Dawgs4Life #1702526 12/04/19 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Jc

I’m under the belief that our offensive guys thought we’d be able to just show up and out-talent teams and we didn’t put the time in together .. our preparation and urgency and work ethic have to improve collectively if we want different outcomes next year

This is absolutely the case. Baker even admitted as much recently.

Many Dawgs here also felt the same way. Who needs to show up for voluntary practices to learn and get your timing down in a new scheme when you can just out-talent everybody?

Heck, why bother wasting your time learning the playbook, when you can post flashy videos on Instagram instead?

lampdogg #1702550 12/04/19 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


I certainly won't disagree with that. But there are things to consider.

We have the same OT's we had when we won 5 out of our 8 games in the second half of last season.

We have the same OT's we had when Baker set the NFL rookie QB TD record.

I'm an OL guy. Always have been. I understand the importance of having good OT's

But if I'm building a team and I'm looking at the facts I stated above, the OT's may not have been my highest priority. We are in our second season under Dorsey. There's still work to do.


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PitDAWG #1702647 12/04/19 06:56 PM
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What would have been your highest priority? ,... not looking for a debate, just curious as to what u would have considered our biggest weakness ....




PitDAWG #1702703 12/05/19 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


I certainly won't disagree with that. But there are things to consider.

We have the same OT's we had when we won 5 out of our 8 games in the second half of last season.

We have the same OT's we had when Baker set the NFL rookie QB TD record.

I'm an OL guy. Always have been. I understand the importance of having good OT's

But if I'm building a team and I'm looking at the facts I stated above, the OT's may not have been my highest priority. We are in our second season under Dorsey. There's still work to do.


The OTs weren't good last year either...they are just worse this year because FK wants to run an offense that they cannot block-for.

Dorsey really screwed this up...he may have gotten away with not prioritizing the OTS had he left the interior OL intact...he did not...he chose not to. He made a gamble and lost big...that's on him. He hired FK who seems to have gone rogue after being a 'let's go with what works' kind of guy. He needs to reign that in or move on.

PitDAWG #1702710 12/05/19 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


I certainly won't disagree with that. But there are things to consider.

We have the same OT's we had when we won 5 out of our 8 games in the second half of last season.

We have the same OT's we had when Baker set the NFL rookie QB TD record.

I'm an OL guy. Always have been. I understand the importance of having good OT's

But if I'm building a team and I'm looking at the facts I stated above, the OT's may not have been my highest priority. We are in our second season under Dorsey. There's still work to do.
Hubbard was still trash when won those games, but we at least had a TE that could block and help him out. JD has completely botched that position grouping, and it has showed. Also, when you get rid of KZ, a guard who was able to hid and help out Hubbard a lot last year as he was that good, that hurts as well. If you don't think getting rid of KZ was going to expose Hubbard, then maybe JD needs a new job.

GR last year played ALOT better than he is this year. Same name, same guy, different player. Thats been the story of his career so far, hes a big letdown for his potential and draft status. Hes a backup quality OT.

For someone who I think if fairly intelligent, I don't see why you think last year has anything to consider about this year. What does their performance about last mean? Nothing. It has no bearing on this year or what they are doing now, or the fact that even though they played decently at times last year, that the GMs job is to do one thing - improve every position he can. I give you that the way he handled Robinson was the right way - give him a 1 year prove it again deal. No problems with that. But to completely negate the fact that Hubbard stinks, and not try to improve that spot - was criminal. Especially when you got rid of any TE that would have helped him a little.

PitDAWG #1702776 12/05/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Our tackles haven’t been good enough. Bottom line.


I certainly won't disagree with that. But there are things to consider.

We have the same OT's we had when we won 5 out of our 8 games in the second half of last season.

We have the same OT's we had when Baker set the NFL rookie QB TD record.

I'm an OL guy. Always have been. I understand the importance of having good OT's

But if I'm building a team and I'm looking at the facts I stated above, the OT's may not have been my highest priority. We are in our second season under Dorsey. There's still work to do.


Players should be judge for their production first. Our Tackles gave 8 sacks, which is not a bad number, so pointing at them for the main reason of our lack of production is not fair.

We also have the 10th best run offense in the league, which I tend to associate with line quality.

Our tackles have showed some indiscipline ( 8 penalties for Hubbard, and 6 for Robinson) which they must improve, but even so considering the team numbers its not that bad.

QB play and capacity to read D's play a vital role on the OL play, so does the huddle command and making sure everybody is lined up properly.

IMHO, OL has played much better than our QB, and I think that is indisputable.

Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/19 01:33 PM.
willitevachange #1702778 12/05/19 01:34 PM
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Last year we were better because we played rubbish teams and bad defenses,and Baker didn't have to take risks and win games.

I think that is quite evident now.

Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/19 01:35 PM.
DiamDawg #1702786 12/05/19 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
What would have been your highest priority? ,... not looking for a debate, just curious as to what u would have considered our biggest weakness ....


Well you're asking mine. smile

First that's not what I was addressing. As I stated, we did very well in the W/L column during the second half of the season. Baker set the single season record for TD passes for a rookie NFL QB. So from a big picture standpoint, I can understand getting OBJ. I can see where they felt the OT's were "adequate" to continued production.

We actually ranked very low on the D side of the ball so I understand the need to make major investments in the DL as well.

Now to actually state what I saw as our biggest weakness, I would say both the OT's and DL. FS was another huge weakness.

Now as to what I would have done to solve the OT problem I really can't say. The FA market was way overpriced and not a lot of viable options. Our first pick in the 2019 draft was #46 so at that juncture you most likely won't be finding a huge upgrade at LT. At that juncture it would have been a crap shoot.

So knowing what a big weakness is and having the ability to solve the problem are two different things.

I've always been a trenches guy and the OL is a huge part of the success of any O. I think you had a pretty good idea of my answer when you asked the question.

wink


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