DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Odell

keep him 2500 yards has better numbers then terryll owens and cris carter.
point 2 landry the leading reception leader ever at this stage of his career is the getting help.
3 the browns lost both games last year this year with obj they split.

Talent-starved for two decades, Browns must try to make it work with Odell Beckham Jr.

https://beaconjournal.com/sports/2019120...dell-beckham-jr

CLEVELAND — Now is not the time for the Browns to make a knee-jerk reaction and give up on the best receiver of the expansion era.

It is time to start deciding how to fix the team and organizational flaws — of which there are many — that have frustrated the best receiver of the expansion era.

Drama follows Odell Beckham Jr., whether it’s watches or visors or clown shoes or dropped passes or complaints about failing to get playmakers the ball. But he doesn’t belong in the “cancer in the locker room” category. Beckham has some valid beefs. His passion for winning is what the Browns need more of, even if it does come with a few too many “look at me” moments.

Plus, he’s 27 years old. The potential of an offense led by Baker Mayfield, Beckham and Jarvis Landry is too great to give up on Beckham after one season. Especially when he confirmed following Sunday’s 27-19 victory over the Cincinnati Bengals at FirstEnergy Stadium that he’s been playing with a sports hernia since training camp.

As misguided as Mayfield was when he criticized how the Browns training staff handled Beckham’s injury — a sentiment that should not have aired publicly and prompted Mayfield to issue an apology on Twitter — it made one thing clear: Mayfield has Beckham’s back and wants to continue playing with him. Mayfield, too, is tantalized by what the Browns’ offensive attack could become, next season and beyond.

That might require firing coach Freddie Kitchens or forcing him to make staff changes, abandon a reported game plan-by-committee approach and dramatically improve sideline operations and decision-making.

In Game 13, the Browns (6-7) showed little to no offensive progress. In the first half, the Bengals (1-12) ran a professional-looking offense before they started to implode with Browns-like personal fouls and questionable play calls. The Browns blundered about as usual, throwing when they had running backs Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt facing the league’s worst run-defense. The Browns’ best-designed play of the game didn’t come until 3:16 left, a 34-yard catch and run by Landry.

It’s no wonder Beckham, who caught two passes for 39 yards, is frustrated. And yet playing with a hernia that he said prevents him from running until Friday each week, Beckham has caught 59 passes for 844 yards and two touchdowns. Considering the injury and its limitations, it’s understandable why he’s not a primary red-zone target.

But General Manager John Dorsey has a chance to repair the relationship with Beckham. It will involve Beckham undergoing surgery if it’s necessary or getting healthy if it’s not, finding three new starters for the offensive line so Mayfield has time to look downfield, hiring a quarterbacks coach who can help Mayfield progress, not regress, and fix the previously mentioned offensive structure and play-calling issues.

Many will be tough calls. It sounds like a to-do list virtually impossible to fulfill. But any respected NFL franchise with the right leadership could make huge inroads on those in one offseason.

The Browns could take the easy way out. If after the season they decide to trade or release Beckham and they do it before March 20 (per Spotrac.com), they’ll owe him $2.75 million in guaranteed money. If Beckham is dealt, the team that acquires him will be on the hook for $60 million due in salary and bonuses from 2020-2023, which could make a trade difficult.

Neither of those options would be a smart business decision. The Browns gave up a first-round pick and safety Jabrill Peppers in the March trade with the New York Giants for Beckham. Receivers with the awe-inspiring skills of the three-time Pro Bowler aren’t that easily found. Especially by a franchise that could have drafted Ohio State product Michael Thomas, a two-time Pro Bowler for the New Orleans Saints, in the second round in 2016, but instead tabbed Emmanuel Ogbah, now a backup defensive end for the Kansas City Chiefs.

Beckham might seem like a disruptive force, but we don’t know how his teammates feel about him. He hasn’t had a Dennis Northcutt-like moment that cost the Browns a game.

Letting Beckham go seems like a quick fix. But it could cause as much friction between the players and the coaches/front office as it alleviates. Giving up on Beckham would serve more as an indictment of the continually dysfunctional Browns franchise and its ineptly run offense.

I think FK will have a short menu to swallow if kept. Yesterday should have been glorious for the run with our backs. Just lousy with passing overall instead. I think Dorsey needs to address our sidelines this offseason and add better linemen.

Hard to watch us struggle so badly. We looked lost on offense from the start. Our D is losing ground it seems.

Also am I the only who noticed our line (for the most part) provided a nice pocket for Baker...unfortunately the connections downfield and to OBJ, were still mostly off.

This is now what 3 seasons in a row where OBJ has been injured?

He got run down by a white Linebacker I've never even heard of in the open field.....frankly it's amazing that he has 800+ yards being that slow.

This year is such a mess.....the offensive scheme is a disaster, the route combo's are a hot mess. The passing game just never looks in rythym, Odell has been hurt, Callaway jettisoned, NJoku our half the year, Higgins????....Baker has like 5-7 just flat out drops that turned into INT's and that's not including that horse crap with Njoku yesterday.



All that and they are 6-7 about to play the Cardinals and Bengals again.


Say what you want to about the expectations.....7-9 and 8-8 in back to back years.....IS progress.

Dorsey.

Is anyone ready to start saying Dorsey is failing or do we still want that statue of him built?

I mean no GM seems to have been setup to succeed like he was and he's not doing so swell, is he?

tHe RoStEr TuRnOvEr, ThO.

I had a sports hernia and a torn groin. It takes a least a year to get back to normal.

I know the pain and you can tell he has the same issues that other people have from that.

I give him props for playing through it. It is extremely painful.. especially when you are making cuts.

When was the last time we had 2 1,000 yard WR's and a 1,000 yard RB?

Statistically, there is no question it will happen this year.

Chubb has 1291 yards, with 3 games to go. He is at almost 100 yards/game. That's amazing.

Hunt has played 5 games, and has 302 yards rushing. That would equate to almost 1000 yards rushing over a 16 game schedule.

Jarvis needs 5 yards for 1000. He is averaging 14.4 yards/catch ..... which is, by far, his career high.

Odell has 844 yards. He would need to average 52 yards/game to get his 1000.

Jarvis is definitely having a career year.

It's unfortunate his "strong hands" disappear when he's trying to catch passes beyond 2 yards.

This is OBJ's worst year (probably) excluding injuries.

No.

From 1-31 to possibly 15-17 yeah let's run that guy out of town.

OBJ has this year 105 targets and 844 yards, that is roughly 8 yards per target...

Why are people worried about OBJ, I don't get it.

And yet I think we all feel it could be so much better. I say we blow the top off next year. And I think we do it with Freddie.

How r the wizards doing this year ....

Your hero was so bad he couldn’t even get a job in this sport and u wanna make fun of me for KJ ... yup, that’s pretty intelligent ... *L* ...

Hey I know ... let’s do the only thing u understand about football and do some analytics on their numbers ... lets start with W/L % ... let me know what u find ..

Ummmmm, the team is winning on talent alone despite Freddie's insane play calls.

On like 16 carries all year

j/c...

Freddie's comments come on the heels of Jay Glazer's report of Odell wanting out and now here is this. Not sure how this will ultimately play out...

It's over. Finally. Get him out of here immediately. The guy is toxic and not a team player, ship him off.

Yeah, I’m already tired of the distraction he has brought ... whether intentional or not

j/c

And people wonder why we can't have nice things.

The dude in your sig or OBJ ... I thought Lerner bringing in policy was the worst thing that could happen ... this dudes making policy look competent .. *L*

J/C

And people wonder why we can't have nice things.

Chubb leads the league in rushing attempts.

Then why do so many people want the coach fired?

I'm on the fence about Freddie, as I hate cycling through coaches like underwear... but if I'm being honest Freddie has added plenty of ammo to the "fire him now" argument. He still hasn't completely solved the 3rd-and-short-empty-backfield-with-Chubb-on-the-sideline tendency, even if he's somewhat normalized his overall run-pass ratio. And when you add on the truly head-scratching individual playcalls (intentional false start to go for it on 4th and 15, draw on 4th and 9), the argument to toss out such a coach is at least somewhat believable.

We've fired coaches that have been here for a similar/same amount of time for much less.

A total lack of patience and they bought into the hype. They somehow felt an entire new coaching staff would magically come in and things would click on all cylinders with new systems on both sides of the ball.

I think Freddie has done enough to get himself fired... it has nothing to do with expectations, he just adds almost nothing.

Again, expecting a running backs coach elevated to Head Coach to not have bumps is just ignorant. I cannot imagine a scenario where a professional would elevate someone 2 or 3 levels above all of their previous experience and not expect growing pains.

I honestly fail to see anything special in Freddie, but I trust Dorsey.

There are both good reasons to fire him and good reasons to keep him, IMHO.

I dont have a problem with GROWING pains, the problem is you have to GROW after those pains. That's the entire point, right? he's not growing, each week is something new with this team, there is no discipline or structure. Freddie says one thing and does another. Hes not learning or growing. Hes getting worse each week seems.

Daryl Ruiter said on the radio yesterday that if he talked to his bosses the way he's heard players talk to Kitchens this year, he'd be fired.

Not sure there is a lot of respect there.

I said it in an earlier thread that the players don't seem to have much respect for Freddie. That's why there is no discipline and the play and effort isn't getting any better. Freddie seems like a nice guy and at this point a good positional coach but as a HC he is in over his head.

That - or maybe people watch games every Sunday and don't see a HC who gets it. They don't see a consistent offense that gives players a chance to succeed. They see the same issues that have been going on from the 1st game of the season and there is no progress. Maybe they see 2 elite RB's and we run the ball 6 times int the second half vs Pit and the warning bells ring L.O.U.D. ... maybe they see us play Cinci who have one of the worst rush defenses in the NFL and we come out throwing. They see a talented team that lost crucial games that an average other HC/play caller would have won. . . . and that's without the other discontent and disrespect issues we now hear about.

I am not saying Freddie has to go .... I am saying Freddie has to show me something each week before the end of the season. Because losing games BECAUSE of him and winning game IN-SPITE of him is very very troubling - and it's happening.

This is the problem with having a 'buddy buddy' type of coach. Lack of respect which ends up with a lack of discipline and ultimately the coach losing control of the team. It can take months, sometimes years (Rex Ryan) but it almost always ends up happening.

I heard the same thing yesterday.

He also mentioned, that since the Randall returned after allegedly getting benched for arguing over not practicing outside b/c of the cold, that since his return, all practices have been indoors and with the doors closed.

Apparently, they used to leave the doors open to bring in some cold weather.

There's a lot that's happened this season that points to a complete lack of respect for Kitchens.