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There's a reason Joe Thomas and Andrew Hawkins mentioned on their podcast they both believe Freddie will be gone after this year --- too much talent on this team to continue to waste on hoping a guy can learn on the job. They also cited other issues.

Freddie Kitchens is like when the Cavs had David Blatt. Can't give a kid with his temp permit a Ferrari and not expect him to crash it.

Fortunately, the Browns finally have expectations and rightfully so. Unfortunately, John Dorsey chose the wrong guy to lead the team.

Is their reason because Haslam? If so, then that would put them right up there with the talking heads that lazily report on the Browns ("Browns could do this because... Browns").

I need to start listening to that podcast.

More positive press for the Browns!

After Baker accused the Browns training staff of mishandling Odell, Jaelen Strong took to Twitter....

(There's more if anybody reads his Twitter timeline, some language not suitable for posting).

No. Relates to Kitchens. Lack of respect from players, throwing players under bus, not practicing what he preaches, etc...

Joe Thomas starts out thinking he'll get another season and changes his mind for the reasons they outline on the podcast.

ThomaHawk episode #102: Week 13 Recap, T-Shirt Fiasco

Joe Thomas is my favorite Brown since the return ... he's got to be close to top for everyone right? Class guy - articulate and engaging. There's NOTHING I've seen or heard to suggest the dude is into rumors or the "it's being reported by other reporters that ..." thing. I hadn't heard him say this - but I think you can probably book it.

Oobernoober .... I think this sort of speculation on the Haslams is uncalled for and the sort of thing that gets repeated when there's no basis for it. I was down on the Haslam's but since the appointment of Dorsey they have been "model" owners and kept the heck away from Football decisions.

I tried to make it clear I didn't know. I did NOT intend to suggest that I knew anything, or was asserting anything. My apologies if I wasn't clear.

That said, it is TOTALLY called for to speculate on Haslam in this way. If there's anything he's established in his short time as owner, it's his itchy trigger finger and tendency to meddle.

For clarification, I do not mean to imply Joe Thomas has any inside info. This was just the conclusion he and Hawkins came to after discussing the season as it has played out, the state of the team and all that has gone into it.

If true, that is a total joke and lends itself to send both Randall and Kitchens packing (among other reasons.)

I'd almost say it's hard to believe, but you never know with this team.

Practicing in the cold, and especially the elements is crucial this time of year. Ever notice when the Patriots play in the cold/elements, they are almost always much more prepared for it than their opponent? Browns vs Patriots earlier this year is an excellent example. Belichick is notorious for practicing in those conditions, whenever the opportunity presents itself, and it shows up whenever they play a game in inclement weather.

Also, I didn't mean to gloss over the lack of respect for Freddie that sequence implies. That's an even bigger issue here.

The Browns brought too many personalities into the fray without the leadership to get them to buy in.

I think it doesn’t take a professional to see that our players crap on Kitchens. They don’t respect him as a coach and it’s a ship without a captain.

Sure, they might “like” him, but they know he’s got no clout

Randall's first tweet after returning to practice following his suspension. Seems happy about that indoor practice...

Also, here is Daryl Ruiter on his podcast discussing the change to close the doors to the practice field house and the Randall situation. Begins at the 24:55 mark through the 26:15 mark ( if interested in listening). P.S. To your point, they mention the Patriots and their practice habits.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/cleveland-browns-podcast-about-odell-beckham-jr

New Year's housecleaning again. Not sure I would have interest trying to "happy on up" some of these guys. Do your job. Lost track of the thread here, but suddenly we are awash in imagined drama. Football, please. And better ball at that.

Can't wait to see the new and improved game plan this week.

Yes, you do.
EVERY Browns fan needs to subscribe.

I think your last sentence has more meaning than most understand.

Baker has clout with the FO/fans.
Odell has clout with the FO/fans.

and etc. etc.

The team I believe likes Freddie, he is a good dude. By all accounts. But the fact is, the players know the score. They know he was a RB coach a little more than a year ago. They know he has a short leash, and they know things are not going well. They know he is in over his head.

He has no clout (Freddie) because well - hes never really earned any now has he?

That was an interesting and enlightening listen.

I see it as there being two issues here:

1) Discipline and having control over the team
2) Adapting to inclement weather. Cold adaptation is important this time of year in football, and even other sports (thinking October baseball here.) Teams that are used to practicing and playing in it have a distinct advantage in the cold over teams that are used to warm weather or dome stadiums.

I think Freddie isn't Readdie to be head coach.... I'm not knocking the guy.. He seems like the kinda guy you'd like to sit down and have a beer with.

The question I have is this, Can he improve and learn from the mistakes? And if Dorsey keeps him and it doesn't work out, will we have lost the edge with the talent?

Talent is fleeting.. You get a window and that's it.

A year ago, Freddie was RB coach and also Associate head coach.

Prior to that, he was QB coach, RB coach, and TE coach for the Cardinals. Bruce Arians was the Head Coach in Arizona, and he was his own OC, but Freddie was ... according to Arians .... a coordinator in waiting.

Bruce Arians preparing Freddie Kitchens to be offensive coordinator
https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/3...ve-coordinator/

Freddie is not some guy who was a RB coach for a year and then became OC .... as many seem to imply.

Freddie has a long history of coaching ... but he has still taken a meteoric ascent from RB coach last year to HC this season. He's never been a full time OC - and never a HC before. Position coach to HC .... enormous gulf.

He literally was a RB coach, who became an OC for half a year, then a HC. That's a fact. To imply otherwise is well, just not true.

You can try to say whatever it is you want, or list all his other position titles - but the fact is, in 20 years, not a single person or team thought FK was good enough to be a OC other than Dorsey. And in 20 years, not a single person or team thought he was good enough to be a HC other than Dorsey.

Some people are not meant to be leaders. That's not a negative, and that's not say he is not a good RB, TE, or other position coach. Heck, he might very well be a great OC! But even then, there are guys that are just not HC material because they simply cannot LEAD the way it is needed.

Romeo Crennel, great DC. Wade Phillips, Great DC. Both pretty bad HC.

Bud Carson too. What I would like to add to your post is a decision has to be made about Freddie after the season. We can't waste another season to determine if Freddie will be a good HC. If the FO decides he will grow into the HC job and be good fine but if not we have to look elsewhere. The talent is here now and we will be adding to it in the offseason with the draft and FA. Remember how we wasted a season by keeping Eric Mangini one more year? We can't do that again. Prudent decisions will have to be made.

I was ok with giving Hue a second year - we really didn't have much talent, and I wanted to see what he could do to improve the guys we had. he didn't improve anyone.

FK is in a different boat. We don't need to improve right now, we need to win. I completely agree, that we shoudlnt be wasting years on FK learning the position of his duties, especially when we have no idea if he CAN learn them.

With this team and roster, we need(ed) a guy that could come in and get it done, not learn on the fly. Not waste a year. This entire year has been a waste, because not only did we not win enough, we literally have taken steps BACKWARDS. Guys getting suspended for seasons, guys threatening to kill reporters, guys fighting with media, guys getting threatened to get tossed out of games for their shoes, guys getting ejected for late hits and not showing up to practices, etc. etc.

There has not been a single positive thing outside of Nick Chubb about this football team. Frankly, I find it hard to even root for this year. We were the bad guys ladies and gents. We were the cheap shot artist and dirty players. That's what people want to continue?

Couldn't agree with you more Will. If a change is made I like McCarthy or Ron Rivera.

Bill Belichick went 5-11 in his 1st season in New England. They got worse on both offense and defense than the prior season in his 1st season. They committed 99 penalties. (compared to 101 committed by the Browns in the same season, our 2nd season back)

Sometimes it takes a coach (and staff) a season to get acclimated. We can give up after every head coach suffers difficulties .... and we have done so many times in the past .... or we can see what this team (and coach) becomes if we have a small amount of patience.

I often wonder if the worst thing that could have happened is for this team to have had some success, because it created unreasonable expectations.

I am willing to bet that Freddie will evaluate himself after this season, and will see things he needs to improve on. I suspect that he and Dorsey will go over areas he needs to address together. I also suspect that he will reach out to some of his mentors for advice. (Arians, Parcells, etc)

Man, people have him fired in his 1st season before it has ended. Of course, Browns fans wanted Belichick fired every season he was in Cleveland as well.

Will he, though? Based on what we're seeing and hearing from him, it seems he has difficulty in learning from mistakes.

I forgot he was a running backs coach. How the hell can you explain last weeks game from a former running backs coach. "We made adjustments at half time"

Nick Chubb only had 3 carries at halftime against the league's 32nd ranked rush defense.

Last week, after Nick Chubb ran for 57 yards down to the Bengals 3 yard line, Freddie goes empty set with Chubb and OBJ on the sideline, seemingly forgetting we just gashed the Bengals and have Kareem Hunt. Instead he calls a fade to Njoku, whom he had deemed 'not ready to play' the previous two weeks.

Light bulb finally comes on and Freddie calls a run to Hunt who runs it in for the score on the following play.

He seems to make things unnecessarily difficult.

After running the ball 6 times the whole of the 2nd half vs Pittsburgh. This (after 14 weeks) is a prime example of why I don't believe Freddie is improving or 'getting it' ... jmo

Maybe because he's a former QB....

j/c...

Nate Ulrich
@ByNateUlrich
#Browns QB Baker Mayfield said he can't answer for WR Odell Beckham Jr. whether OBJ wants to be back in Cleveland next year: "There's all the rumors going around, but I have my conversations with him, and I know what we talk about. So I trust him wholeheartedly."

But Chubb leads the NFL in rushing attempts with 253 (Derrick Henry has 250). Could it have been Cincy was expecting us to run and the gameplan was to throw to keep them off balance and save Chubb? Sure, didn't work all that well, but he adjusted at half and we won. Isn't that all we ask of a head coach?

I'm not bashing anyone's opinion, but if we ran Chubb as often as people on this board would prefer, Chubb would have 350+ carries.

Once again, no one is complaining about the number of touches Chubb has on the year, its WHEN he is touching the ball.

7 carries in 3Q (second half of pitt, and 1Q of Cincy) for the leading rusher in the NFL, in a one score game and the 1st Q against he worst rush def in the NFL, is inexcusable....I would not try to defend that if I were you.

3rd and short and Freddie insists on going empty backfield. Not only are we not running the ball when it's a good time to run it, but we're also simplifying things for the offense, telling them we're not going to run it.

EXACTLY!

I don't mind throwing in on the 5 yard line, but have Chubb or Hunt in the backfield so AT LEAST to say "hey, we may run the ball"

Maybe it's because he is trying to develop the offense, and not just a running game.

As far as empty ... it gives the QB much easier reads.

Gives the D much easier reads too

MAJOR IMPROVEMENT here bro ... earlier in the year he’d of went empty all 3 or 4 plays ...

Wooooohooo ... FREDDIES GETTING READY ...

Well, you can really only do one of two things with the ball - run or pass. Seems silly to tell them exactly which one you are doing in a goal line situation.

If you like something out of an empty backfield, how 'bout getting to the line early with BOTH backs and splitting them out wide? Both guys are veritable threats and now you have the luxury of pre-snap reads before your QB decides.

In these empty situations, you can get the defense to declare what they are bringing. It makes for easier reads.

Heck, people were saying impeach President Trump the day he was elected.

It's just the narrow minded people in this twitter world.

I think that's probably part of it ... ALL season Kitchens has looked like he is calling plays that are too cute and trying to hard to outsmart the other team. . . gadgets and gimmicks and trying to score twice before half time when leading by more than 14 pts with 5 minutes on the clock .... calling draw plays on 4th and 9 ... when we had run 2 draw plays that same half already .... maybe that's what some want the HC to do? I prefer to make the other team stop what we do well - and if they show any ability to take away something THEN exploit the field / game where that leaves them weaker.

We adjusted to beat the 1 for 13 Cinci Bengals? I don't know that I put a lot of credit for that. Sorry. Adjusting to beat the Pats, Ravens, Seahawks ... mad props if that was the case. Not for beating teams like Miami and Cinci.