DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker or Lamar

No one's trying to run Baker out of town. I actually think that would be stupid. He's the best we've had since the return although that bar is low.

I think what's happening is the realization that Baker can't put a team on his back. That's ok for Andy Dalton types drafted in the 2nd round. It's a letdown with the number one overall pick. Baker missed a ton of reads and throws yesterday. I've heard from people who were at the game that OBJ was running open all day and Baker didn't/couldn't/wouldn't throw him the ball. He's about to wrap up his second season. We still don't know if he's a complete QB. He's the last rated QB in the NFL.

I keep saying he's a loser. That's my way of saying he's not going to carry the team to victory. Doesn't mean he cant play well when the surroundings are ideal. Unfortunately I find that disappointing but it's not the end of the world. Plenty of teams can win with guys like that.

But when I'm watching and we need a game winning drive to win, I have no confidence Baker will get it done.

We never had such easy seasons before, he's good against bad teams.

Baker is holding us back, we have probably one of the best running backs and receivers group in the league.

9 of our 13 games thus far have been against top 11 scoring defenses.

The other 2 were against (scoring defenses) 18th ranked Jets, 22nd Seattle, the 23rd ranked Bengals, and last place Dolphins.

You may not be, but some would love nothing more than for Baker to go.

And I don't agree. I think he's 100% capable of putting the team on his back and winning games. I would day he actually did it in his first ever game in the NFL.

I have complete confidence that Baker can win games. I'm not going to overreact after one season.

It's too early to make any final determination on Baker. From either direction.

I think we have enough to have a good idea. Baker is by all means not a bad QB, but he is also not elite.

Only question I have is if he can cope not being the star of the team.

Agree with the first statement.

The answer to the second one is he can. He's already doing it.

And I will put this as a notch in his good column...the guy can throw 4 picks and if the team wins he seems genuinely happy. He's not a stat chaser or looking for the spotlight. It's all organic with Baker. I think he wants to win above all else.

I am a baker fan. I will say this at first.

But I have concerns, and winning games is one of them. Baker has lost more games on final drives than he has won. He has ended a few on INT (Pittsburgh and Balt last year come to mind right away).

He had other games basically end on INT on key drives like Tenn - we were still in the game in the 3rd Q, he threw a pick and then they just took off on us.

Baker so far, acts like he has that Killer Instinct that Tom, Ben, Manning, etc have - but he has not really played like it yet mins really the Jets game.

Does anyone have any insight into how serious Lamar's leg injury is?

Kind of a "mystery metric" for Baker. Purely me.

His interviews are ahead of his win production. Seen lots of commercials, read and seen interviews and stories, some of which he could just avoid. Plenty of talking, some distracting and media-driven.

Do more talking on the field. Then have your sideshows. It is a fine line, I understand. Unless it isn't.

I don't mind the commercials... capitalize on your fame.... but dude needs to learn how to do a pressed... talk too much

Dawg, I was raised "Old School."

We lived in a smallish town (60K folks at is largest), and My Pops was a true public figure during most of my 'Wonder Years.' Every time I'd leave the house, Momz would call out from the living room:

"HEY!!! -remember your last name while you're out there!"

When you're 16, and just want to go to the Fri night football game with your budz, it's a #painintheazz. When you're 22, and being interviewed on the local news as a representative of the leading local Arts Institution, that mindset comes in handy.

There is a reason why so many interviewees sound a bit 'canned'... they understand that more is at stake than just their personal profile when they speak in public as members/representatives of a group.

My training as Momz and Pops' kid when I was 13-18 prepared me for being in front of groups/cameras. I was OK being interviewed at WLIO, I was OK speaking in public before a crowd of 500+ at a fund raiser for my current job, and I was OK being interviewed backstage at Carnegie Hall on a national NPR/international internet simulcast when I was 55 years old.

Class, polish, and a sense of propriety are never out-of-fashion. I've been publicly questioned dozens of times, and have always managed to be myself, exercise candor, and never bring controversy to My Fam or my craft/profession.

Draw a line that sets your limits.
Walk right up to that line.
NEVER CROSS THAT LINE.

You can be a public figure without being a source of public controversy.
It takes a bit of personal discipline and cognitive rigor in the moment, but it can be done. I was 4 years out of HS, and managed to pull it off

Up to this point, Baker has cut himself from a different bolt of cloth than what wove me into the family tapestry. He's gotta find his own way in all this.

But speaking from experience: he could have learned a few things from growing up in Lima- next door to RLC One, and Juanita Clemens.


.02,
RLC Two.

Dang Clem, my daddy grew up in Cridersville. "Hamburg, pickle on top, makes your heart go flippity-flop."

Not to negate the pertinent points you made throughout the body of your post. I feel like Baker can't decide when to be brutally honest or politically correct. As a fan, I want to hear him dish, but from an organizational perspective he might need a shock collar.

Yeah, Dawg....
Y'all know what's what, yo-

-I worked at Kewpee West (Allentown Rd, across from KMart) for 2 years. I prob served Your Pops back in the day-

Heck yes, Clem. It's been a long time, but I remember two Kewpee's. One was big and one was little. Like so little you could barely park. I could swear my pops telling me they had a rotating thing in the parking lot so you could drive directly into your spot. Of course this is the same man who always says, "Oh you like that, I made it myself." Whenever anyone compliments anything in his home. Did Dave Thomas really base Wendy's off of Kewpee? I could actually believe that one.

the Browns need to either:

1. go after Teddy Bridgewater hard in FA
2. Trade some picks to get into the Top 3 of the NFL draft

If the Browns can do either 1 or 2, you trade Baker Mayfield away while he still has value. He is the Trent Richardson of QB's. He had a great rookie year (So did Richardson) but he isn't a very good player.

Some other team will give us a 1st or a 2nd and a player for Mayfield as they believe foolishly they can fix him, in fact Gruden out in Oakland would be the perfect trade partner.

We need to move on from Mayfield, it was a mistake. it was a big risk drafting him, it didn't work out.

Look Mayfield threw below 50% completion and a QBR of 38.9 and 2 INT against one of the WORST defenses in the NFL with the Bengals ranked at 31. Your not a even an average QB if your posting those kinda numbers against garbage teams like the Bengals.

Look the NFL hasn't figured it out yet, we can snooker someone like Banner snokered the Colts with Riachardson. Im telling Oakland and Gruden is the perfect fit, we get a decent draft pick, and they get a fools gold QB with Mayfield, its a win-win

We need to move on, if we can get Bridgewater, we can take a flier on a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rd and develop the guy for a few years with little fan fare, Bridgewater is still young at 27 years old, he has quite a few years left. This makes sense, if the Browns stick with Mayfield he will be a backup or out of the league in two years and we won't get anything for him...you don't post crappy 38 ratings against terrible D like the Bengals if your a viable starter in this league. Its time to move on.

Lol Yea.. Lets dump Baker now BEFORE he gets past his 2nd year and start over.. Dump Freddie too just in case Bakers problems are on the head coach and play calling. Dorsey made mistakes by Drafting Baker and picking Kitchens so we should show him the door too and start over..

Give me a friggen break..

His post was liked by Clown Hunter....

No, just no.

I had to check who liked your post and of course it is "Clown Hunter". smh.

Baker came into a bad situation. The team was 1-31 the two season before his arrival and he was saddled with the worst coach of all time for the first half of his rookie season. Throw in coaching changes (twice) and we're now essentially on his third coaching staff in his second season.

Add in some of the other drama (including at the WR position) and he has performed well enough. There may be a time to reevaluate and get someone else in here but that time is not now, and it won't be this off-season either.

Get some more O-line talent (especially at tackle), prioritize timing, reliability and team-first mentality at wide receiver, tweak the coaching staff as needed and let's let this thing develop.

Sometimes Brown fans amazine me. Bakerhas shown he can do the job. He just needs to stop trying to force the ball to Odell and maybe some good coaching.

I thought we were getting Tom Brady?

Yep. Your dad was not lying. The QP downtown was so small only 50 people could eat in the dining room. There was one way in and one way out off of North McDonald Street, and there was a big turntable in the back of the parking area. Your car would spin around and go back out the way you came in.

Rumor has it that Dave Thomas was a manager at the the small Kewpee for a year or two before he moved to Columbus and started up Wendy's. same format same fresh beef everyday same fries same malts (they call him frosties). No guess as to how true that rumor is but it has persisted for decades. Dang man now I want a Kewpee! (btw- Kewpee isn't just the males doll lover the entrance... it also is "QP: quarter pound of need in each Patty)

The Tom Brady thread is more toungue in cheek, not gonna happen, but I’ll own it. I’m good for that.

I really think folks loyalty to Mayfield is a mistake a big one. Im 99% certain he isn’t the guy. He doesn’t pass the look test. He isn’t an NFL starting QB. I didn’t think he was an NFL QB last year either. I was not fooled. Most of his passes last year was quick one read throws against man coverage. Last year the Raiders and Chargers played Zone and Mayfield had awful games. He has also had awful games this year against zone where that first read isn’t open right away. Most D Coordinators will play man coverage and blitz rookie QB early on when there is lack of film. Once they had the offseason to watch Mayfield struggles against zone coverage against the Rams and Chargers they adjusted and Mayfield has yet to prove he can adapt and learn to read it.

The book is out on Mayfield, you play zone coverage with delayed Blitzes and the kid folds like an accordion. The 49ers played the Chargers game plan to a tee against Mayfield this season and he posted a wonderful 13 QBR.

He is another Scott Mitchell, Don Majkowsi, Derek Anderson we need to trade him while he still has value. He isn’t the answer here no matter how much people want him to be. He is backup quality QB in this league. Jackson and Allen are so far ahead of him, Allen can actually read zone coverage and so can Jackson. Manning was able to read zone year two, so was Rothlisberger, Mayfield is lost, pats the ball and either throws an int or is sacked.

I honestly think Mayfield would have worked out if we would have stuck with plan of sitting him last year. Winning those couple of games wasn’t worth rushing Mayfield who wasn’t ready, we had career 90s rated passer and two time Pro Bower in Taylor who was willing to help
Mayfield in that first year. To prepared him to be an NFL QB, we rushed the process. We should have gave Mayfield a taste against the Jets then went ack to Taylor, just small doses the first year

Our QB picks fail because we can never stick to a plan and develop anyone.

A company doesnt fire the retiring CTO during the 6 month period he is training the replacement. Time is given to help the person learn, learn the ropes, how things work, etc.

Taylor outplayed Mayfield in camp last year by a mile and it wasn’t even close. There was no competition not because Jackson said so, it was because Taylor was so far ahead of him and so much better it wasn’t even close. This was one thing Haley and Jackson.actually agreed on. Haley coached both Rothlisberger and Kurt Warner at high levels I’ll take his opinion over any media pundits.

We rushed Mayfield too soon without making him earn the job. He never beat out Taylor so how could he be ready to play when Taylor was an average QB at best. The early success last year was the worse thing that could have happened to Mayfield and the Browns.

We kneejerked. Taylor would have won 7 games too we should have stayed the course last year sat Mayfield for a year like the Bengals sat Carson Palmer behind god awful Jon Kitna, and how the Chargers sat Rivers. QB must be brought along slowly, even Brady sat year one.

Manning and Rothlisberger are EXCEPTIONS for early sustained success not the norm. Rothlisberger has Betttis, and a great D his first few years. Mayfield may not have liked sitting year one, but we screwed him out of valuable learning that would have increased his chances of success immensely.

Now we have a kid frustrated as all can be, can’t handle how D have adjusted, all the drama, no real vet to lean on. Taylor has a Super Bowl ring.

We done the same thing with Mayfield we done with Couch. The Browns just never learn. Sometimes ya gotta bide you’re time and get kicked in the face before you wait for the right moment to strike with a one hit KO. All we had to do was let Taylor play out last year and were not in this mess right now. Such a simple thing and the Browns just can’t do it. Can’t develop anyone.

Lamar Jackson now has 3 games this season with 5 TDs passing.

He now has 33 TDs, 6 INT, 1100 yards rushing, 7 TDs rushing.

The true definition of a dual threat.

Lamrar + OC + (Ingram) >>>>

And we beat them.

This is what happens when you have good coaching (Lamar).

Yup. He's a very unique player and very difficult to defend. The Ravens have also built a nice offense that utilizes his skill set. It kind of makes you think back to all the people who said spread/college offenses with mobile QBs would never work in the NFL... ya, right.

Anyway, I'm kind of surprised nobody has tried what the Chargers did to beat the Ravens last year in the playoffs. Use 7 DBs on the field. Have speed everywhere to counter Jackson and those fast receivers.

I don't believe any team has tried that this season for any significant length of time. Maybe even go to base dime (6 DBs) as a compromise.

edit: There's a good chance the Ravens and Patriots will see each other again in the playoffs. The Ravens already destroyed the Patriots so I'm curious to see how the Hoodie responds from an Xs and Os perspective.

The problem is that what the Ravens are doing on offense isn't a gimmick. Read-option runs and RPOs are very efficient plays, moving him around opens up throwing lanes all over the field, etc. As Pete Carroll said, it's a nightmare to defend. Take away one thing and another opens up.

We didn't use 7 DBs, I don't think. But we used more than most and that's partly how we beat them the first time.

We blitz quite a bit based on the rest of the NFL. I'd be curious to see how much we blitzed in the first meeting. And to see how well Lamar does vs the blitz. I'd imagine he's pretty good.

If I recall we did well against him for most the game.

Another idea. So normally, comments left on an online article leave something to be desired (putting it mildly...), but this is actually a pretty good idea: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nyone/#comments



Just have the edge defender hit Lamar on any shotgun run. NFL rules are actually quite lenient on this. As long as there is some reasonable confusion, as there will be when a zone-read using team runs the ball from shotgun, the QB is fair game. The Ravens used to abuse this fact constantly when these schemes started appearing regularly in the NFL 6-7 years ago.

"When you run the read-option, you have to know the rules" - Terrell Suggs, in a post-game interview where he hit Sam Bradford on an obvious handoff to the running back. Chip Kelly was the head coach of the Eagles at the time and he was famous for building his offense around the zone-read, even though he didn't use it with non-mobile QBs like Bradford.

The issue is that he’s putting edge rushers on ice skates.

You HAVE to blitz Lamar with a DB, because the lineman and LBs don’t have a chance.

He struggles with DB blitzes off the edge. That’s one key. The other key is you have to cover his TEs Andrews, Boyle, and hurts. Snead and brown are good receivers, but he doesn’t throw to them often. That create problems though because DBs all year have struggled to cover the TEs.

But what do you do when they just decide to run the rock? This is the issue. They average 200 yards rushing a game on the ground this season. Ingram and Edwards are a great combo, and their o line is one of the top units in the game.

That’s the problem with what we’re trying to figure out: yea, some teams found a way to slow Lamar down, but when one side of the ball is just flat out more talented than the defense, whatever the defense schemes up still doesn’t matter.

If defenses don’t have the appropriate speed to keep up.....well, speed kills.

I guess that's one area I can give Dorsey credit. His defense was built with speed, which seems to be his plan. This is another reason we beat them the first time.

Losing Garrett doesn't help, but we can still beat them.

Look you 4-1 with hunt in the line up.
You beat Pittsburgh and Baltimore
Let’s cut him

I have never seen more stupid comments on a thread than this one.
And I wonder why I stay away so much.
Jeeeshhh. Maybe I'm the stupid one for continuing to read this junk.

You obviously have not read the Gameday threads for the past 4 or 5 weeks then .......

It's driven good football posters away. Can't say I blame them. If I weren't so stubborn I would have left the asylum to the inmates some time ago.