DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns plan to retain Freddie Kitchens 'barring a horrific collapse'

j/c:

I'm guessing Freddie's done here in Cleveland. Only two more games.

I do think Wilks needs to go. His defense has been run over most of the season.

that's a huge endorsement for a DC

Lose to the Rats would be one thing but if hit the trifecta and the Cards and Kitties are 2/3 of it he's history.

Bruce Arians
Oh wait that was last year.
He isn't available this year.

Is it sad I miss the days of Mike Pettine and Jim O'Neil

Heck I was on board for bringing him back after the 0-16 .... probably one of the reason's I'm less inclined to give Freddie a chance "just because" or "continuation is good" ... Looking at the way the team comes to each game this year, their level of preparedness, the lack of scheme, cohesion, identity, play calling and game management .... I don't believe he will ever get it. He DID improve discipline - woop woop. But that's it.

Does this qualify as a horrific collapse? I hope so...

Then list the players that have improved compared to those that have regressed under his watch.

Some of the teams most improving players last year can't even see the field.

How much do we lose to Ravens by? 30 too conservative?

This loss is horrific.

Well, that didn't happen (again) today. This team soooo lacks passion...

Two teams going in opposite directions. We can only hope they take pity on us...

Freddie Kitchens: “I don’t care about my future as Browns coach”. Says Dorsey and Haslam want him to do his job

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1206370424403030017

Yet another misleading quote. While the quote may be accurate, I can guarantee the context is not.

We live in a 'get clicks' situation as far as news. get the clicks, money will follow.

Horrific collapse has commenced. Thankfully. Goodbye Fat Freddie. Don't forget Wilks on your way out the door.

If Freddie goes, they all go.

This defense as played has really gotten hammered and can't get off the field well. I just think it is a lame setup. We do not zone well, and backups have killed us.

Tired of the drubbing a lousy tackling D treats us to. Weaker opponents are rolling us, and we sure got out worked today. But this O can't get us enough scores and this D rarely gets stops, seldom turnovers and scoring is a memory.

The Rats are coming.

Can we define horrific collapses

Today felt horrific

He took three or four questions in a row sabout his job security... I get they have to ask but come on...

I agree with that. Whoever said that had some criteria in mind. Not sure we could look more incompetent and inept than today, but wait until next week!

Always something to look forward to.

More leash seldom gives you a better dog. FK has failed to improve some serious issues. Not sure how you measure "horrific" (or merely "horrific-ish") but we have to get closer I guess before it is suddenly actionable.

I used to root for these guys. Saw a bunch of quit and going through the motions today.

Pretty sure we saw a horrific collapse today in Arizona when the team completely fell apart with no consistency and giving up in the second half. The coach is the issue, not the players. Any other coach with some experience could take this crew far. Too bad a losing culture pushes players away. I wouldn't want to see special players like Chubb suffer through ineptitude anyway. That dude is special!

I'm sure by 2021 this whole thing will be blown up and we are back to a talent-less squad like we were 3 years ago. Can't wait to field another team like the Kizer squad!

Does it matter? Does this feel any better?

In a lot of ways this feels worse. Questions that you thought were answered are now unsettled. GM, coach, and QB all took a step back this year. Now we don't know what is real and what is a one off.

Soooo, DePo's stock must be trending up now?

Last Year, I wanted Williams or Arians, and keep Freddie as the OC. Didn't happen. Dorsey ( notice I did not say KING JOHN ) gave the job to Freddie. Why ?? I have no idea, though it had been cited that Freddie and Baker had a "special" relationship.

I think the special relationship is gone now. Baker went from setting rookie records to flunking out his sophomore year. Depending on what happens elsewhere, the worst starting QB in the league. Everyone expected so much more. Dorsey brought in talent, Beckham, Hunt, as well as a decent draft. The team responded with what appears to be a worse record than last year, when all the bad stuff was blamed on Hue and Haley.

Where is the fire and desire that we saw a year ago ? Where is the push to win ? Clearly Freddie was not ready. I want a proven Head Coach. No more first timers, or one year wonders. Maybe Chuck Pagano, maybe Jason Garret, maybe Joe Philbin, or Mike McCarthy. All I know is that I'm tired of giving a coach his first head coaching job.

I have read most of this thread and am amazed at the lack of Dorsey speak. Anyone care to really examine his off season TEAM building moves last year .
Anyone really think an air raid OC like Moken was a fit ? The more I looked at the Wilks hire , the more I scratch my head.

Hind site is always 20/20. You can pick apart a bunch of his off season player moves for sure . What really bothered me more than anything was moves or lack 0f on both O and D lines .

Can count on the off season to be long and arduous .

If we get rid of Freddie who do we hire? Here are some thoughts:

My top 2 choices:
Dan Campbell Ass't HC/TE coach N.O. Saints
Robert Saleh DC San Francisco

Both these guys have the fire and enthusiasm, yet hard guy discapline I like to see in a HC. Campbell also has some prior HC experience.

Other considerations:
Ron Rivera
Chuck Pagano - are his health issues completely resolved?

Not going to happen:
Bill Cowher
Urban Meyer
Lincoln Riley

No Way!
Jason Garret
Joe Philbin
Hue Jackson

Anybody have anyone else they are high on that I failed to mention?

To your question(s)....

**Speculation Alert**

Dorsey was scarred by what happened to him in KC with a strong HC in which he lost the battle to and was ultimately fired from his job.

GW was never a realistic candidate for a couple reasons, 1) Bountygate, and 2) Too strong of a personality for Dorsey. This is likely the reason he never bothered to interview guys like Ariens or McCarthy. Dorsey wanted someone he could control. Hence, him "flexing his muscle" to get Freddie and the organizational structure (which I agree with) he wanted.

This gave Dorsey full control. Something he never had before. A coach with too much clout means Dorsey may find himself in the same situation he was in in KC where he ultimately lost out. He wants the control and not to be controlled.

**Speculation Over**

That was kind of my thought... so Kitchens is benefitting from the fact that the team looked absolutely dreadful at the beginning of the season... then showed some progress... but unless they return to dreadful, he gets to keep his job?

Given the body language of the team, the frustration shown by Landry, OBJ, others on the sidelines... the question isn't does Freddie have what it takes to be an NFL coach, it's has he lost this team? I don't know what they were frustrated about but "losing" isn't a good enough answer... they were frustrated about SOMETHING that was leading to losing...

McCarthy and Rivera top my list. Byron Leftwich is a rising star as an OC under Arians. I'd also consider Kevin Stefanski. He would have a lot of fun with Hunt and Chubb.

Jim Tressel.

Yep, the season as a whole has been a disastrous failure.

I believe the frustration w/the players towards the coach(es) has been brewing for quite sometime and it's starting to boil over.

You can see it everywhere from:

- Landry yelling at Freddie
- OBJ yelling at Freddie/the sideline
- Landry shouting at Lindley to the point Landry had to be separated
- The Curious Case of Hollywood Higgins
- Njoku's odd return from injury
- Damarious Randall being benched and not traveling with the team
- Giving Callaway the starting role, fresh off suspension and his costly bobble turned INT

The list goes on.

And some of these are things happening while we are actually winning games.

On a side note, I never see the coaches discussing w/the players or the players getting together on the sidelines either coaching them up or rallying each other. Everyone seems to kind of do their own thing. There does not appear to be a lot of team camaraderie.

I never see Baker going over to Landry and OBJ on the sideline to discussing previous drives, etc... To me, Baker is intimidated by Landy and OBJ together.

I feel, as if, Mayfield, awkwardly throwing the medical staff under the bus last week, in support of OBJ, was akin to the school kid saying whatever he can in an attempt to get in with the cool kids. I could be wrong, obviously, but that was one of my initial thoughts.

I am not a McCarthy fan
Leftwich is an interesting add
Forgot about Stefanski.
I don't see Tressel happening but he would bring discipline

Arians is who they should of hired.

The guy WANTED the job. He would of been the perfect mentor to Fred.

I get the feeling Dorsey didn't/doesn't want a strong head coach. That doesn't mean he doesn't want a good head coach, he just doesn't want a strong coach. Dorsey likes to be the man.

Just a name from the college ranks, Gus Malzahn of Auburn. I think he would be super.

J/c

If the embarrassing loss to Tennessee, the play calling against the Rams, the collapse against Seattle, the horrible loss in Denver, the loss to Pittsburgh’s backups, or yesterday’s debacle aren’t grounds for dismissal ... then I’m not sure what would be

This actually makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Baker's being told he needs to be more of a leader so he does things like this and then they confe back and tell him not to do things like this.

This is true. This is Dorsey's team thru and thru. Someone needs to start holding him accountable.

Tressel is never leaving Youngstown State.

I've been wondering about that since GW was canned...