DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Nick Chubb

so, i will give freddie this: even though during the game we get infuriated at the perceived lack to the run game.....technically, its not true.

Nich chubb is 1st in the nfl in rushing yards with 1408.

he's tied for 2nd with Carson and elliot with 19.3 attempts per game. only Derrick Henry has more carries a game....with 19.4.

he's again tied for 2nd with the same players for overall attempts at 270. only Henry has more...with 271

of running backs in the top 10, chubb is 1st in the nfl with a 5.2 average per rush.

chubb is 1st in the nfl with 100.6 yards a game average.

1st in the nfl with 11 runs of 20+ yards.

1st in the nfl with 4 runs of 40+ yards.

and only has 2 fumbles, both coming in the same game against the patriots.

Chubb also has 35 catches for 277 yards.

he has been the one consistent bright spot on this team, and his season #'s means we're gonna have a 1st team All-pro when the season ends, especially since we have two games left for him to get more stats.

I know we all bag on freddie, and rightfully so, but Chubb usage has been on par with the top tier running backs around the league.

We are 15th overall in rush attempts, though.

which is a problem, but also requires context. Freddie has used hunt extensively since coming off of suspension. but prior to that, who was the running back behind chubb? hilliard. he wasnt gonna get the amount of touches that hunt has. plus, we do have big name receivers, and freddie has *tried* for balance. im trying to think of a team that was top 5 in rushing attempts with two very good WR's on the roster.

the best i came up with was the 2016 falcons. they had a top 5 rushing attack...but was only 12th overall in rushing attempts as a team that year.

this year for example, you can maybe say the vikings, who are 3rd, but theilen has been injured a very huge chunk of the season. going down the list, atleast on paper, 1-15 its hard to find a team that compares talent wise to obj and landry as a duo.

Vikings, and texans are about it.

so had hunt been available at the start of the season, that ranking probably would've moved up.

Chubb is an amazing talent.

Freddie does give him the ball enough, but it's when does Freddie give him the ball. Chubb gets forgotten about in stretches of the game.

How many times have we seen the Browns run an empty set from inside the 5 yard line?

Last game the Browns had 3rd and 2 twice in critical situations and both times Chubb was on the sidelines. The Browns elected to shovel pass to Landry and throw to Landry. Neither resulted in a first down.

This past game against the Cardinals the Browns forgot Chubb was on the team until they were down 14 and ran Chubb 4 straight times and he scored.

After the late interception in the second Steelers game the Browns have the ball in Steelers territory with a chance to tie it up and how many times does Freddie give the ball to Chubb? Zero. And then Freddie says after the game, "I should have given the ball to Nick."

That same Steelers game, Chubb only had 7 carries in the second half.

Against the Bengals and their 32nd ranked rush defense Nick Chubb had 3 carries at halftime.

I could go on, but you get the point.

So I will not give Freddie credit for Chubb being an amazing talent and extremely hard worker. I'll give the credit to Nick Chubb.

Chubb doesn't even need his LT to block for him!....

At some point I actually think it would be a good idea to give more carries to Hunt. Chubb is the better runner but such a big workload tends to grind backs down over the the long haul.

Give Hunt some more touches, let's see what he can do, maybe showcase him a bit more as it might make sense to trade him at some point. Or maybe it might make more sense to keep both for the long haul. It's hard to say.

I'm certainly not sticking up for Freddie here, but I do find one thing rather odd.

When players don't seem motivated and prepared, everyone seems quick to lay the blame on Freddie. Yet you just made it obvious that if a player is motivated and a big time contributor, you certainly won't give Freddie any credit for it.

Isn't that a double standard?

Freddie has been singing this guys praise near constantly since the offseason.

If I were GM I would try to lock Nick up 2 seasons early to get a discount otherwise I'd ride him and let him walk. Paying running backs is a fools game.

thats the thing that bothers me with HOW freddie uses chubb. he uses him in chunks, not sustained series or anything like that. too many stretches that the run game disappears, then out of nowhere, all we want to do is run the rock.

i think dorsey signed hunt to keep him for the long haul.

baker's best friend in any offensive scheme will be the run game. chubb and hunt have already proven multiple times this season to be an absolute nightmare for defenses.

i think just simply due to the makeup of this city and such, we have to keep chubb. i agree we need to lock him up quickly.

There are always many unique circumstances that can't be explained by stats alone. Personally, I think your OP is spot on, and although there have been times I've been screaming "Chubb!" at the field or TV, his usage is right about where it needs to be.

This is rather interesting though, and shows how hard it is to tell the whole story with stats...

Last three games:
Browns rush attempts per game ~ 25th in the league
Rushing average per game ~ 3rd

Why? Because the run game was abandoned in two of three games... down 10 to the Steelers and 14 to the Cards. In games with decent to comfortable leads (all three of them) we have run the crap out of the ball.

Nick Chubb is the best player on a talented team. However, at the top of the league in attempts and yards it's hard to call him underutilized.

It's been discussed that when simply looking at the overall rushing attempts for Chubb, everything seems fine. It's when you look at how he comes about those carries that the conversation takes you right back to where it began... Freddie's (mis)use of Chubb.

yea its why i mention the fact that for the 1st half of the season, we didnt have anybody reliable to run the rock behind chubb.

i think the numbers would be different had hunt been available week 1.

I hope not at any time soon. We have the potential of killing teams with NC and KH in the backfield.

I think we Browns fans have been conditioned by years of this stuff to expect it. We've been trading away useful players for bags of beans since The Return. It's as baked-in to the CLE mindset as Draft Day being more exciting than reg season.

I think that under decent coaching/scheme/play-calling, we could ride these two to multiple post-season appearances for the next 3 years or so (barring cap space considerations).

Keep Hunt. Work Hunt.

.02

Hands down the best player on the team!!!!!!!

No reason for Chubb to not be on the field any time there is a big play.
ie. 3rd and short or anytime inside the 5 yard line.

I feel the last part is where we as fans might be right in our thinking that FK is not the man for the job.

No it’s not for the simple fact that Nick Chubb has been the same player each and every game since Week 1. He’s brought zero drama to this team and when he’s on the field there has been zero doubt about his effort, focus, preparedness, etc. If you could say the same thing about most of this team then yes, Freddie should get credit for that. But since these things can’t be said about more than a couple players, Nick Chubb is an aberration on a Kitchens coached team.

Precisely. Freddie has done very little to use Chubbs success or even the threat of what Chubb can do effectively on a consistent basis. Add in Hunt, there is no reason we shouldn’t be the kings of play action

Or if it's 1st and goal on the 5, we go all pass happy. If it's third and short, we go empty backfield. If we actually start using Chubb consistently, we don't bother to mix in play-action.
It's almost like we line up in obvious pass-formation or obvious run formation. It's no wonder that multiple teams have said they know what we're running before we run it.

J/C ....... It's weird ...... people complain that we are a super pass heavy team, but we are 16th in rush attempts, and 18th in pass attempts.

Also weird people complaining about the OL when we are a good running team.

It's weird when the ones making these complaints have to re-explain over and over again why they're legit complaints.

Pass happy in situations where we should run the ball, or at least have a RB in the backfield.

OL needs improved at pass-blocking, especially when we're trying to go for a pass-happy O.

I see.

Players do bad things = Freddie's fault

Players do good. = Just lucky.

I'll stick with my double standard comment.

Why do we run 5 wide near the goalline? Because the QB's reads are simplified. Freddie is actually trying to help Baker in those situations.

I think our OL needs a lot of improvement. I don't think that they are particularly good at pass or run blocking. I read something about Chubb having the most yards after contact in the NFL. I wish I could find it now.

I think it's mainly because our passing game has more examples of things going disasterously wrong, so they stick in the mind more.

But it's never one thing, it's a bunch of different random things each week in the passing game.

Hopefully our struggles this season are a series of freak aberrations. Things may have snowballed after starting that way. Lack of trust in pass catchers rooted in the early bad randomness may be a factor.

I don't think adding new people will magically instill trust.

You won't (re)develop trust by not throwing.

I think its time we start looking at it saying "the top tier running backs around the league have been on par with Nick Chubb"

he has quickly become the best RB in the league.

J/C

I also would like to point out, if it wasn't for Nick Chubb, this team would have 4 wins or less.

I agree with that bro. Regardless of our coaching situation, I think if we have Chubb and hunt next year, we could have two running backs with 1000 yards a piece. Whether that’s total with passing yards and such, oh well, but they have that kind of ability.

I think Chubb is as good as any RB in the NFL. 'Best' is a tough thing to prove or even debate when many have different skill sets, play for better/worse teams or OL ... Chubb is an elite back though and I wouldn't swap him for anyone. Not only because of his ability, but also because of his character and attitude.... Chubb is easily my second favorite Browns player since 1999 right after Joe Thomas.

Yeah, he’s been about the only bright spot ... “so shines a good deed in a weary world”

My Granddaughter trying to sly (Christmas) asked me if I bought another Browns jersey what player would I want and I said Garrett and Chubb are my favorite players but I would love a Chubb #24

In this season that has been defined by a roster of highly talented players who are underachieving, coaches who seem clueless on how to use their talent, an arrogant franchise QB who shows sign of regression, players taking plays off and sleepwalking, games lost that should have been won & drama after drama...Nick Chubb is the one consistent bright spot week after week. He is also humble and clearly works hard on every play in every game. We should count ourselves lucky he is in Orange & Brown. He is definitely my favorite player on this team and I would love to personally shake his hand and tell him thank you. A true dawg!

This may be a little off track, but one of the things I noticed in the Cards game is the respect the other team showed Chubb. They might jaw with other players, but they help him up with a pat on the shoulder.

+1

When Nick is done running the ball and being great for the team...

Hire him as HC... lol

If it feels so good to be wrong, why would you want to be right?

Freddie’s own words early on about Chubb were about how diligent of a worker he was and his level of effort from Day 1. Day 1 Chubb is no different than Week 15 Chubb.

So you want to give Freddie credit for the player Nick Chubb is and was prior to coming to Cleveland? Got it

Let’s say for arguments sake I spot you Chubb and I’ll be generous and throw in Hunt, and we’ll credit Freddie for their performance.... let’s all stand and slow clap as you give Freddie the Coach of the Year Award because he managed to get 2 whole players out of 53 to be consistent. Bravo sir, Bravooooo.

Imagine Chubb behind a good run blocking line. Imagine Chubb with a good run scheme.

I love Nick Chubb.

I wonder what Greg Roman could do with our backfield?

Or Pete Carmichael. If nothing else, the Browns would not be performing their due diligence without interviewing him. Seems like an interesting candidate given the weapons we have offense.

Probably nothing radically different. Maybe relative/minor adjustments such as more consistent usage throughout the game, less empty sets, more divvying up touches and that sort of thing.

Having a mobile QB that you're willing to use as a runner is largely what makes that offense go. The same was true in his time in San Fran with Kaepernick and Buffalo with Taylor. Runs from the zone read are just better and more efficient than 'normal' running plays, for a number of reasons. Running backs thrive in that environment. This forces adjustments which opens holes and throwing lanes in the defense, which can further be exploited by moving the QB around.

Roman has done a masterful job of building that offense and deserves a head coaching job in this league for his efforts.

I'm sure he's more than capable of building an offense around a non-mobile QB, one that has good down field accuracy with big play receivers that's really meant as more of an explosive, downfield passing attack. It's just not what he's done in the league or what he's known for.