DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey

j/c..

I wonder if Dorsey met with OBJ and asked that he put this story to bed if he truly wants to be here. If so, good on Dorsey. Those conversations need to be had. Eliminates one distraction for the time being.

I think more of it has to do with the "come get me" comments than anything. The media, and of course the spurned fan base following closely behind, thinks the only thing that could possibly mean is they want out of Cleveland.

I understand it stems from the "come get me" comment. OBJ also had a chance to put it to bed before and he made ambiguous statements such as, "I have no idea what the future holds" or "who knows where I'll be next year" which only added fuel to the fire.

OBJ was not scheduled to meet with media and felt the need to address this today instead of waiting until tomorrow at his regular media session, hence my comment/speculation on whether or not Dorsey may have met with him.

I suppose it could be perceived that way. Yet in actuality no player knows where they're going to be next year. A team can trade or cut a player any time they wish. Now we know OBJ isn't going to be cut. But none of us or him knows where he will be next year.

For a player to say he "knows" where he'll be next year is nothing more than a hypothesis.

The part I've found funny this entire time is the fact that I have NEVER heard "come get me" taken to mean "hey, I'd like to be where you are" except when a kid needs a ride from his mom.

USUALLY (in my times hearing guys say that), when a dude that is fired up is saying that to another guy, it's a challenge... you're calling that guy out and telling him to step up.

“I’ll fire Freddie if you sta. . .”

“Deal!”

Anyone who can't see that the offensive scheme, the coaching, the chemistry and Odells injury have all played a role to varying degrees to the regression of Baker Mayfield are trying to frame a narrative.

If I had to rank the issues with Mayfield I would list them.

1. Scheme/route concepts
2. coaching
3. chemistry
4. Mayfield struggles
4. Odell/Njoku injuries

1, 2, 3, are on John Dorsey.

An argument could be made for 4 and 5 as well.

Chemistry would be due to him and the coaching staff putting more emphasis on talent than players. Example would be AC starting over Higgins when he came back from suspension. This organization is drunk on talent, and don't really care about the TEAM building process as a whole. Also, its up to John to bring in talent yes, but its also up to John to bring in guys that have talent AND are willing to play and win as a team. Personality goes into the eval process of players for a reason. Dorsey lacks that part, or overlooks it for talent.

Mayfield struggles - I believe an feel it has to do a lot with John basically handing him the keys and wanting to make him the face of this team. He has been given too much slack for one, as well as given bad coaching (lindley and kitchens). Who hired those coaches?

Odell and Njoku Injuries...ehhhhhhhh, If your on the field your on the field. Njokue is healed and cleared, but cant get on the field, like Higgins. That's on FK, which in turn is on JD>

Baker's regression is Baker's to own. It's on him and nobody else. Scheme, OBJ's groin, Freddie's whatever-it-is that causes him to take a false start so he can go for it on 4th-16 can't explain Bakers tendency to miss high and behind. His accuracy has been suspect more often than not. He also did this last year, but not nearly as much. WRs have to reach back, down and jump up to catch his passes. Very rarely does Baker put a pass right on the hands so the receiver can turn and gain yac.
He's been more off than on in the accuracy department. He's also shown he can improve.

Vers called it earlier this year that most of Baker's issues can't be solved during the season. They will require at least 1 offseason of intense training to work through. I also don't think he can cure all of his ills in 1 off-season, but even if he can address 1 or 2, that's enough for me to continue building around him (while highlighting the running game... but for real this time).

You realize coaching matters right?

Bakers main attribute coming out of college was his accuracy. He could throw the ball on a dime. That doesn't change, unless your mechanics change, typically.

I would love someone like Bone or EO or Vers to break down some film from Baker last year to this year with his throwing mechanics this year. But I believe the change from last years QB coach to Lindley, has made a VERY big impact on his throwing and accuracy.

Coaching Matters. BIG TIME. To suggest it doesn't, is well.....wrong.

So who we getting this offseason?

Now you're trying to bring an ounce of common sense into the conversation. What are you thinking!?

Ya ... ok .... if Bake can’t read D’s thats on Freddie ... .. All of a sudden Bake is inaccurate as heck must be Freddies fault ....

Gimme a break bro ... U have FDS ... ....

Freddie’s stunk to high heavens but BAKE HAS HIS OWN ISSUES ... not everything’s Freddie’s fault ...

For GM, HC or QB ... *L* ...

Coaching does matter. But you can't coach a guy to put in the time in the off-season. I think it's pretty safe to say that Baker didn't work on the right things in the off-season. Vers brought up the "broom sweeper" comments regarding coaches helping him break down and improve his mechanics.

I have faith that he won't take the same approach this coming off-season. I think the humble pie he's had to eat this season will go a long way to him addressing his weaknesses once this season ends.

Coaching does matter, but I don't think a team of all the very best QB coaches would've been able to help him not sail passes in games this year. The things Baker has been struggling with are either out of his hands (scheme/playcall and/or offensive disorganization) or couldn't be remedied while the season is going on.

I'm guessing that the demand for his commercial endorsements has dwindled greatly.

The one thing I’veheard all year that really stuck out to me ... Bake said at some point ... “he didn’t think it would be this hard” .... that really stuck in my head ... hopefully he knows how hard it is now ...

He ends to learn to read D’s or were gonna be back in the same spot were used too ... needing a QB ...

GOOD LUCK BAKE!!!

Lord I hope so - and I also hope that when the endorsements come calling again, he says "no thanks"

Why? Players have free time (and should make as much money as possible). It's not like he's skipping practice to film commercials.

I think this year / season we've seen that maybe to be the best you can be as an NFL QB - doing the other stuff simply restricts or reduces your efforts at being QB. If Baker can't live a ridiculously lavish life on what he makes as a QB - then I'll happily be his financial advisor and show him how to make more $$$$ than these commercials are making him.

I honestly don't think the three or four days they took to film a batch of short commercials during the long offseason is what hampered his progress.

Hell, even if that was all he did during those days, it is the sort of thing that still fits very well into that June/July dead time and still leaves well more than enough time to study and work on things.

I think that it is far more likely that while it is his livelihood, it isn't his Life - it's still a day job - and he needs to figure out how to make it be THE important thing and still give the other things in life the time they deserve.

You and Cfrs might be 100% right - probably are .... I still prefer him to not do any commercials.

It's really a shame that these guys at the top of their sport can't put their ego aside and stay in their lane..

Dorsey seems to be a great guy for finding talent and getting deals done..

Reid is an exceptional coach..

Why guys like that can't just be happy doing what they do well is beyond me. It's happened here a few times, it's happened other places... guys who could be good coaches fail because they envision themselves as GMs as well.. and guys would could be good GMs fail because they try to exercise control over the coach..

Just do YOUR job.

My guess is that you don't want him to make commercials because when they come on and the team is terrible it makes you feel bad.

You are 100% right on that side affect - but I'm more concerned about the impact it might have on his preparedness as a QB. They do have down time - I'd prefer it was just that, down time. Chilling, relaxing, hanging with the wife.

That is kind of "tin hat" my friend.

You hire who is available in any given year. I seriously doubt we hired Freddie intending to fire him to hire someone who will be available this year.

It was Dorseys job to hire a coach. Jimmy and wife stayed out of matters. They were involved only to be informed. If they had any real say, I think it was as a no veto.

I agree the decisions are to be made by the front office and team executives, not the media or fans. I haven't totally given up the idea of Freddie as our coach next season. Six weeks ago I thought there was no chance we would move on as some of the knee jerk crowd was hoping for. Now that it has gone deeper, it might happen. Might could possibly be probably.

As to the Ridnor thoughts, my attitude is the coach talks during the season. That is his platform. The GM talks in the off season. That is his platform.

I agree with the commercial thing.. Yes it's his choice and right.. Yes he makes money from them.

Let's look at it from another point of view.Take out the money factor.. Does making commercials give a person a feeling of self worth ?

Baker was a successful rookie..But success comes from winning on the field and winning big games and Championships... Baker done none of that.

Commercials blow up egos and make people believe they are greater than they are.. Just like all the hype..It did nothing for the team to be successful...

The commercials he made were stupid as hell..and his performance on the field since has been under desirable.

Put in the hard work like Lamar Jackson has been doing..The Ravens have gone 10-0 since the loss to the Browns.. The Browns have gone 4-6.

Baker isn't a super star stud QB.. He is mediocre at best..Work to win..do commercials when you deserve to be recognized as a winner.

I agree he didn't put in the time.

On numerous occasions I have pointed out why. I will again.

For a player entering the draft, they have a college season that starts in maybe late June and runs through bowl games. Then it is right in to the draft process. Training for the combine, the combine, private workouts, the draft, camps, more camps, the season. Those guys go basically 2 years with little time away from football.

Add in the guy got married last off season. Sorry, that takes time, especially if you have some money and have a large guest list. It just does. Lot's of time goes in to that. You don't just go down to the courthouse and get hitched. You have discussions about venues, invitations, rings, guest lists, catering, beverages, bridal/groom party gifts, cakes, fittings, more fittings, rehearsals, the day, the honeymoon, and all of those usually include some sort of meal to celebrate the occasion.

No doubt Baker gained some weight last off season. My hope is he gets back to a more chiseled look and look a little less like married man.

This off season will tell the tale on him.

Sorry my friend, you take it when you can. He is no different than you or in that regard. If some company wants to toss you $50,000 to pitch their A/C service, you or I, or him take it every time.

Agents also work for exposure and endorsements for their clients. They make more money doing that. It doesn't end with contract negotiations, see you in 4 years.

I know you are still bummed since the Titans loss, but you aren't thinking clearly my friend. You take the money when you can. Only a fool doesn't.

Filming a few commercials isn't like acting in a play over 6 months. It's a few hours here, a few hours there.

Come on man....chin up. Don't make me come up there to counsel you, or slap you around a bit. I expect to see you at games next year.

If you don't renew, I always have a ticket or two with your name attached my friend.

Plus these commercials are filmed in the offseason

I know they are filmed then. Does anybody think they aren't?

Just adding my voice ...... I think the whole commercial thing is ridiculous. It's not like he's skipping out on practices to film them.

I wasn't inferring that you thought this. It was a statement to those who believe they are being done in season and distracting him. And I've seen comments by some who clearly think that's the situation.

Go ahead point out my name..It's Billy or DeisleDawg as most know..I don't know or care when the commercials are being done.. You want to know what i give more a [censored] about then a [censored] commercial.. It's the fact that Baker is over throwing..he's missing receivers and the team is losing..

Concentrate on winning football games.. But hey go make a commercial..maybe this team will keep having parades for totally sucking ...

King John was just waiting for Mike McCarthy or Ron Rivera to become available.

Psssst

Mike McCarthy was available last year.

Psssst

Mike McCarthy was on vacation last year.

Huh?

I don't know that your response jives with what I said. I didn't really bring up Feddie (although I know it was a Freddie thread).

To answer your question, yes, I think Kitchens was Dorsey's top pick for HC. And he obviously wasn't the only choice being considered.

I'll admit I felt the same as many others and after last season I didn't want Kitchens to go anywhere. He and Mayfield seemed magical together. The only way you can assure Kitchens doesn't go anywhere is make him the HC.

I loved the idea. But I also assumed Dorsey knew Kitchens was ready to be a HC. He interviewed the candidates, I did not. Watching this season unfold, I'd say Kitchens was not ready, and Dorsey has made a fair amount of mistakes. Your thoughts?

He criticized the players when he got here. From his first draft he has traded away a 2nd rd selection and his 5th rd selection. He's released a 4th rd selection who was taken with risk and that pick failed. Now unless you tell me the players he actually wanted were not there so he drafted Corbett and Avery, did he actually draft real players and trade them away?

I love how the narrative changes with Dorsey and somehow he's invincible. He had the pick of the draft, most likely a quarterback and chose Baker. A lot of fans didn't want him. And still even more fans have soured on Baker and some want him gone. Ward and Chubb have become pro bowlers. A lot of people were disappointed in Ward this year. Chubb looks like a homerun. Corbett is gone. Chad Thomas seems to be a question mark, but he's had a couple nice games. Callaway is gone. Avery is gone.

King John, as some call him, traded for Jarvis Landry. People want to hitch their wagon to that acquisition, ok. He traded for Randall who was benched for a game because he sat out practice due to lack of heaters. Randall is also rumored to be on his way out. He traded for OBJ who many seem disappointed in. Many seem disappointed with Olivier Vernon as well. I know these aren't all his transactions, but he also hired a HC who obviously wasn't ready.

I may not know what I'm talking about, but where in all this do you see a plan? What has Dorsey done that you can say he has instilled confidence that he knows what he's doing and is not failing at his job?

It's actually fascinating the amount of people who are still saying in John they trust. I'm not trying to get him ousted, but there are definitely things here that need to be monitored. I enjoyed last season's turn around and was excited to have Dorsey here, but this season has been an unmitigated disaster. If you feel otherwise I'd love an explanation.