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I was expecting this to be our worst unit going into the season. But I didn't expect the complete trainwreck we've seen so far.
Roye has seriously, SERIOUSLY declined over the past two seasons...no doubt in my mind this is his last season with the Browns. Sad that he never got to see us turn it around.
Washington...I don't understand how a 380 lbs man can be stood up like he has been, 39 years old or not. You're job is to basically sit in the middle and be the toilet clogger that you are.
Robaire Smith has played reasonably well but hasn't wrapped up when he's had a chance in the backfield.
The D-line in a 2 gap scheme has one job and one job only: occupy space. Basically their responsibilities are to get low and don't get pushed back, hell, bearcrawl if you have to (at least that's how I was taught).
If you're getting doubleteamed and losing, you're told to drop to a knee and make a pile. Has anyone seen this once?
Basically I'm trying to think of any way that can improve this line immediately. Perhaps Washington bearcrawling right into the center would help blow up the line, but I'm not even sure anymore.
I knew this would be our achilles heel this year but I thought bringing in the Smiths would help...so far it hasn't.
Anyone else have any ideas?
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Legend
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Quote:
If you're getting doubleteamed and losing, you're told to drop to a knee and make a pile. Has anyone seen this once?
My son was taught this too. He is in the 6th grade. I can't say that I ever saw a pro or college player do this.
I'm not saying they don't teach this, I have no idea. I just haven't ever noticed a player at that high of a level do it. I have seen them get low and drive, like a bear crawl.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I have seen them get low and drive, like a bear crawl.
Uhhh somehow I'm thinking getting low is not in Big Ted's repotoire. 
Can you picture that? 
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I have seen them get low and drive, like a bear crawl.
Uhhh somehow I'm thinking getting low is not in Big Ted's repotoire.
Can you picture that?
Are you forgetting how big I am little man?  I take it personal when you make fun of Ted since we wear the same size.
I am fat, but not that fat. I don't know hoe he gets up off the ground.  Actually I think he moves pretty good for someone who is so huge. Hopefully he will lose the weight so he can be around awhile.
#gmstrong
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I hear ya...its bad.
I'm calling for Pittman and Purcell. Theyre on the PS, and theyre young. so far I think a big knock has been that our DL looks slow. If we're not gonna take up a ton of space, why dont we use the younger guys that we have that have to be quicker. Instead of Fraser (sorry he just hasnt shown me anything) and Kelley. Why not Smith, Smith, and Purcell (or Pittman) I like Robaire, and i think Shaun is still young (cant be worse than TW right now) and some youth.
I'd like to try it, it cant get much worse than its been
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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You aren't that big! I've seen you, and if you are anywhere near his size, then either I have a really, really bad memory or just ignored it somehow. Ted is like 400 pounds.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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From just watching the play as it happens ( I usually watch it slo mo a fewtimes but haven't this season yet) I think Fraiser has been doing better than last year. Robaire seems to be better than McKinley and the rest have been no where to be seen.
It's still very early but I do not see S. Smith to be what some said he would be. I'll give you that he's big and fat, unfortunately that doesn't make him good.
#gmstrong
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KingSteve I agree, if our starters on D-line continue to be awful, why not try a PS player, or geez do something...?
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I can honestly say that he is wearing #10.
I believe the Browns would have drafted DL if they had not traded for Quinn.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Dude, we're talking about football, something you canucks no nothing about. Seriously though, if things don't turn around in a couple of games we might want to look and see if there is somebody we can bring in. The guys on the practice squad are still a little small and I wouldn't want to bring them up and use them too much where we can't put him on the PS next year.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
From just watching the play as it happens ( I usually watch it slo mo a fewtimes but haven't this season yet) I think Fraiser has been doing better than last year. Robaire seems to be better than McKinley and the rest have been no where to be seen.
It's still very early but I do not see S. Smith to be what some said he would be. I'll give you that he's big and fat, unfortunately that doesn't make him good.
I hope I'm wrong about S. Smith but as of right now he seems all talk. Kind of like how he said when we got him that he told his agent to try to get a deal done so Cincy couldn't match the deal then he says in interviews how mad he was that Cincy didn't keep him. He seems to be a talker and just that unfortunately. I hope we improves. And Roye isn't the same player probably because of age I guess. Washington is being laughed at by announcers even. Robaire is ok I guess but needs some help.
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I think I know the answer, but I'd like to hear from you guys how the Poor Dline play effects the rest of the D?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Washington...I don't understand how a 380 lbs man can be stood up like he has been, 39 years old or not. You're job is to basically sit in the middle and be the toilet clogger that you are.
Funny you mentioned Washington as a toilet clogger because I was thinking we need to flush the big turd from the team. He does nothing in my eyes to warrant even being on the field. The fact that he's playing and starting most games is a sad refelection on the lack of quality we have on the DL. I wonder why more teams don't go no huddle just to keep him on the field and take advantage of his lack of conditioning.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I would love to see Purcell brought up from the practice squad. He played in a 3-4 in college, and I thought he looked really good in pre-season. Yeah, I know he's not over 300 pounds, but you he has young legs and may actually be able to get low and tackle. Our d-line is old and slow, we need to energize it somehow.
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I was expecting this to be our worst unit going into the season. But I didn't expect the complete trainwreck we've seen so far.
I'm seeing exactly what I thought I'd see. I don't understand how anyone could be surprised by it. It's been said a million times that D Line was the one glaring need that Savage wasn't able to address in the offseason.
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even though he's a little thug, i would have liked to seen us take a crack at Tank Johnson. he was a stud for the bears.
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I think I know the answer, but I'd like to hear from you guys how the Poor Dline play effects the rest of the D?
Blockers can get to the second level on a run and can focus on our only pass rusher in Wimbley when they throw which leaves our secondary out to dry. It's just like the offense, if you don't have a d-line, you can't stop the run or the pass.
you had a good run Hank.
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Talent evaluation ? Hello Savage & RAC. .. It is where the buck stops ! " Period " ..
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Talent evaluation ? Hello Savage & RAC. .. It is where the buck stops ! " Period " ..
People don't want to hear that. If you question moves Savage makes you either get called names or given the answer "Savage is a great evaluator I trust him over someone on a message board." 
#gmstrong
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In a 3-4, having a NT that can consistantly demand a double team is key... Unfortunately, Ted isn't commanding it anymore and is getting stood up one on one by the centre.
Worse, he's barely holding the line against the centre.
I noticed that Ethan Kelley seemed to be in the rotation a little more against the Raiders but not sure if it was at NT or DE. Made a few tackles but didn't see what kind of blocking he was commanding.
One guy I haven't seen establish himself has been Shaun Smith. Roye and Robaire seem to be rotating mainly with Fraser. Haven;t seen SS do much of anything.... he needs to step in at NT and establish a physical presence that Big Ted just doesn;t anymore.
For those calling for Pittman and Purcell... Pittman..Maybe....very slight maybe... But Purcell is just too small and would get absolutely mauled.
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Sometimes I wonder if it is the change to the 3-4 defense that is the problem. It has been difficult for Phil to acquire the proper personnel. The "tweener" LBs are on the squad, i.e. Wimbley, Peek and Willie( Mr. IR) McG. But the two gap D-linemen are either too old, too small or just not all that spectacular.
Consider this, What if the 4-3 defense was not scrapped and the defense was built with players that were more easily obtained? I can't help but think it may not have taken more than 3 years to accomplish. Next year will be 4 years IIRC!
Also, What if the team switched to the 4-3 next year, could most or all of our best DL and LBs fit into that scheme and would finding FAs and esp. drafting be easier?
So what do you think is the best option, go back to the 4-3 or ride it out? Food for thought.
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Can't do it unfortunately... we don't have the right personale anymore.
We'd have a log jam at DT...as it would be Roye, both Smiths, Washington, Kelley. Fraser is quick enough that he could probably stick as a big 4-3 end.
Peek wouldn;t be able to play DE..he was brutal as a 4-3 end in Houston...and he's not quick enough to play OLB in the 4-3, so he's out.
Wimbley is athletic enough to do just about anything....
Andra, Leon and Dqwell as the starting 3 linebackers I'd guess. Andra in the middle as he's not real fast. But he'd need better reactions... you need a STUD middle backer to make the 4-3 work.
We're a good NT away from having much better success at the 3-4. If Shaun Smith ain;t it, let's find who is.
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Tank is more of a 1gap player...he's more of a get to the QB DT than an occupy 2 blockers kinda DT.
Hes a great fit for a team using a 4-3. Dallas picked him up and they run the 3-4 though...so who knows.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Quote:
Sometimes I wonder if it is the change to the 3-4 defense that is the problem. It has been difficult for Phil to acquire the proper personnel. The "tweener" LBs are on the squad, i.e. Wimbley, Peek and Willie( Mr. IR) McG. But the two gap D-linemen are either too old, too small or just not all that spectacular.
Consider this, What if the 4-3 defense was not scrapped and the defense was built with players that were more easily obtained? I can't help but think it may not have taken more than 3 years to accomplish. Next year will be 4 years IIRC!
Also, What if the team switched to the 4-3 next year, could most or all of our best DL and LBs fit into that scheme and would finding FAs and esp. drafting be easier?
So what do you think is the best option, go back to the 4-3 or ride it out? Food for thought.
A properly run 3-4 will be very effective against the run. In order to run it properly, the right personnel are needed. As of right now, I think that there is only 1 of the 7 front players that would make a dent in other teams 3-4 rosters, and that would be Wembley.
A couple of comments, Jackson is really too small to be a MLB in the 3-4, one of the key components of the 3-4 is to be able to fire any of the 4 LB's at the QB' while others play the pass, Jackson does not have a pass rush presence, so he is the default defender. This can work, SD did it will Donnie Edwards, but it removes one element of consideration for the other team.
I am not seeing a lot out of Ted, He is generally removed on passing downs and/or is only occupied by one blocker. I guess that is why Kelly was seeing more playing time.
So far R. Smith looks a bit better then S. Smith, but this is an area that needs to be addressed with a major talent upgrade. Dropping a 1st or 2nd rounder on DL is common for 3-4 teams, and we just don't have talent at the positions.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Dropping a 1st or 2nd rounder on DL is common for 3-4 teams, and we just don't have talent at the positions.
We don't have a first rounder to drop right now..... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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