DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Short-List of Head Coaching Candidates

Not to lose to inferior talent: Denver, Pittsburgh or Arizona. Right there that pushes us into the expected wild card race.

Forget LA and Sea losses....they were potential wins too, but I forgive that, but the above teams we shouldn't have lost to.

I will also add that we shouldn't have been blown out by TN or SF. Those were embarrassments. But again, the above three inferior teams we shouldn't have lost to.

Ya ... lets just forget the teams we fielded rnd. 2 vs Pitt and against Zona ... did we really have more talent than those teams by the time we played them? ...

I suspect the Haslam's have been doing that since Dorsey's presser during the bye week.

Ummmmmmm...on offense......YES!

I have yet to see this as he makes the same mistakes, often worse, 15 weeks deep into the season. Players beginning to speak out also doesn't help. I think he has lost the locker room.

The Mets made the World Series in Paul DePodesta's last year with the team.

DePodesta was with the Dodgers for two seasons. The first one he made the playoffs. After the second season he was fired because a new owner was in charge. The two biggest columnists in LA (Bill Plaschke and TJ Simers) were against DePodesta immediately after his hire:



"Moneyball" (or finding market inefficiencies) has been an inarguable success in MLB. Literally every team is analytically driven. (This is not to say that it would work in the NFL.)

There's a difference between using analytics in the NFL and DePodesta being the right person for the job of using analytics in the NFL.

That seems to be a running theme here. That if you don't support Depodesta you must think that analytics are bad. That's not the case. The fact is, using analytics is now a part of the NFL. That certainly can't be denied. Now whether a guy coming from MLB to the NFL being the right guy for that job with the Browns isn't such an open and shut case.

Nor is it the same debate.

Following up on the momentum from last season? Seeing some improvement as the season progressed? Not repeatedly making the same mistakes? Winning games we're supposed to? Not looking like a total train wreck in the last half of the season?

Depodesta has been in role for 4 years now.

I count one misstep - when they got him on tape about Wentz (I actually agree with the assessment but thought it was a mistake).

This thread is about coaches and I understand how Depodesta comes into the conversation (he provided data on what the Browns should be looking for in a coach and Freddie was not a match).

"DePodesta is tasked with implementing systems and processes to strengthen the Browns organization and decision making. In this role, he works closely with General Manager John Dorsey, Head Coach Freddie Kitchens and members of the player development, high performance and analytics departments to maximize efforts."

I think Depodesta does this well and without ego (him and Dorsey both know you are right sometimes and wrong sometimes … better to just keep grinding).

If Depodesta has machinations to run the whole show - be careful what you wish for …. but again I am glad he is a voice in the room (who knows - he may be the one telling haslem to slow down on some shiny new hire that would refuse to work with Dorsey or telling him a couple year of continuity is required) …

I really hope we haven't devolved into any "I told you so" stuff because I would lose respect for all parties.

I don't know what the Browns are supposed to do.

Obviously, we know Freddie isn't cut out to be a head coach. He's just not. I think he can be an OC in this league for a long time, but handling the whole thing is just too much for him.

I love this narrative that nobody wants to coach the Browns because they fire guys every few years (or sooner), but really, we fire coaches because they can't get out of their own way. Because their players are constantly not playing smart football. We're not asking that a coach take us to the super bowl within two years, but would it kill you to have this team play to their potential? That's literally all we ask.

The only guy in the last decade to do that was Mike Pettine. I wanted him gone just like most of us did, but looking back, he got everything he could out of the roster, and he had to deal with the entire Manziel fiasco. I was on the Johnny train like some of us, but I am a fan, and am allowed to be.

I'm not saying bring Mike Pettine back, but we need a coach who can have his guys buy in and play much smarter football. You are what your record is, there is no doubt about that, but there are so many other reasons to fire Kitchens aside from W/L. Let's be honest, if the Browns win today, 7-9 in your first year isn't the end of the world.

But it's when you unravel the story of this whole season, and you see all the missed opportunities, the dumb mistakes, the laundry list of penalties every single week. The head scratching playcalls.

There was a graphic going around twitter on what every single team's record would be if they flipped all their 1 score games' results, and the Browns would be 9-6 heading into Cincinnati today. It's a cheap way to look at things, but it is pretty interesting.

.. I was with ya until the " Roster full of talent " comment .. Yes we have picked up a few nice pieces to the puzzle over the last two seasons , wait for it ; BUT the roster is still full of holes .. The revolving door of players is part of the problem. Dorsey has brought in his share of not real, REAL players.
.. Dam sure not a Haslam fan , but pulling the trigger is going to be a tough call..

J/C ......

What I find *amusing* is that fans complain that we don't give players the time to develop ...... and that we switch up coaches/schemes so often that we keep dumping useful players who weren't drafted by the (then) current front office ...... but are perfectly willing to write off a coach in less than a year.

If we are waiting to see if he beats the 1-14 Bengals (I dont think that’s the case) then our leadership would be totally ignorant

Ironic isn't it?

I don't care what Lombardi reports … I don't think it is a Depodesta v Dorsey thing

all of a sudden some clown posts something and folks are picking sides and degrading our staff on rumors - same as it ever was.


Depodesta has a dream job (I would argue it's better than GM if you don't have an ego, way less risk)

if his opinion carried more weight during the Sashi days (that's a comment on Sashi not depo)

all the clowns want to jump on Freddie because the results have sucked - I trust Dorsey to decide - but the next step for these clowns is to go after Dorsey (and the reality is if you are looking for a new coach - unfortunately it sometimes requires to change the GM)

I think it would be a mistake to move on from Dorsey - again I trust Dorsey to decide on Freddie

but for fans to suddenly start tearing down Depodesta because he had a different opinion on Freddie is about as stupid as any one who believed the "come get me" stuff with our receivers.

The franchise is an embarrassment.

Missed XP

First it was Sashi to blame for 1-31, now it's Depodesta? And now that Dorsey is here and we've won 13 games the past two years all of a sudden Depodesta is trying to ride his coattails for a better gig?


Where in the heck do you people come up with this crap?

They are clueless. They don’t understand at all what PD does. They act like he was the gm. Sashi accumulates assets. That’s what they were doing

Jc

Well, I tried to give some positive energy. But Freddie is toast after today. Bye bye.

Yeah pretty much, I hope this next coach is better. I get that hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but the Browns made a huge mistake in hiring Kitchens in the first place, and not doing a thorough search. Whether that is because they actually believed in him, or, like some think, Dorsey wanted a guy he could control, is something that will always be debated, but either way they failed miserably at a time when this team could have been a playoff team. It was set up for them. They were eliminated in the second last week. They had so many opportunities to make the playoffs and they didn't want any of them

We just lost to the one win BUNGLES! Kitchens must go. We have far too much talent on this team to allow him to produce seasons like this.

This was the most undisciplined team we have had in many years. It all started with Kitchens insisting that "we don't practice penalties" over and over again. Well, that didn't work out so well. Seemed like no one on the team knew what is and isn't legal.

There are many things coaches get blamed for that are out of their control. Discipline isn't one of them. An undisciplined team is a direct result of coaching or a lack thereof.

Yes, Kitchens and this entire staff must go. We need a REAL head coach that has EXPERIENCE.

See here is the problem though,

We are not going to get an "experienced Head Coach" like McCarthy or Rivera as long as John Dorsey is in the picture. He is gun shy from losing a power struggle with Reid, and frankly they are not going to come here if they are forced to report to Dorsey how the current power structure is set up.

Guys like Rivera and McCarthy have EARNED the right to report directly to the owner. they have served their time, came up the ranks and shovled poo so they wouldn't have to report to someone like Dorsey.

So that simply isn't going to work.

The way I look at, this goes two ways:

1. We move on from both Dorsey and Kitchens and then hire McCarthy or Rivera and get a different GM they can work with while still reporting directly to the owner.

2. We keep Dorsey and hire another assistant that will report to Dorsey

I'd say if Haslam is smart he goes with number 1, but I won't be one bit surprised with number 2...after all we are the Browns, its what we do.

Reminder: Our entire front office and most of our coaching staff are buddies with John Dorsey.

Spooky , yes ..lol

He'll be gone tonight.

I'll assume this counts as a disaster. If not, what would?

I remember thinking after Hue Jackson's second season that he would surely be fired. It was the only choice to make. He was retained. We can't afford to waste another season with a coach on the hot seat starting week one.

Yeah, anyone that says Kitchens isn't gone is a lunatic.

If we are going to stay with a downfield passing game, we need to invest in the OL. This OL is an OK run OL ..... but they fall apart in pass pro far too often, and usually at key moments.

Looked at the Box score of the game . Baker got sack 6 times ?

Atleast 2 of those was on him standing back there unable to read coverages.

J/c...