Care to share what that would be, mac? Better talent yielded inferior results! Heads will roll...
32...it's just simple math...
With Depodesta and Sashi 2016 = 1 win 2017 = 0 wins
With Dorsey as GM 2018 = 7 wins 2019 = 6 wins
I understand that none of us are happy with the results of this season...but think about this..
When Kyle Shanahan took over the HC job in San Fran, his first season in 2017, the team won 6 games...
...in Shanahan's second season as HC the 49ers only won 4 games...did the 49ers GM fire Shanahan?...NO.
...in 2019, Shanahans 3rd season as HC, the 9ers won 12 games.
I'm not saying that Freddie is capable of that kind success here in Cleveland, but you really don't know how the future will play out.
My concern with Freddie...I think the team quit on him.
fyi Depodesta was here with dorsey too...
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
The big complaint was Dorsey spending assets frivolously ... well, that’s kinda the case here too at the moment. Not much production.
Now, maybe it’s due to his HC decision ... but its gotta be corrected
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Depodesta is maneuvering himself into a President of the Browns type of role. Sadly, Dorsey has made this easy for him by simply not listening to him on key issues.
Depodesta now goes to Haslam and says:
Remember, I was on record we should have hired McDermot Remember, I was also on record stating we should have hired Stephanski, not Kitchens.
Dorsey has just made this too easy for Depodesta to just side step him and take control and its going to happen.
Before next season, Depodesta will be Dorsey's boss if Dorsey is still here,
Fair enough, but I think Haslam realizes he has been hoodwinked.
He suffered though 1-15 and then 0-16
In comes Dorsey promising him, "Let me take control and let me spend some money and i'll fix this"
So Haslam let him make all sorts of trades, give up draft picks, and even hire his own coach while taking on millions in contracts and this is the garbage he gets in return?
Honestly, We should have just stuck with Sashi Brown if this was going to be the results. Sure, it was rough, but Brown actually had a plan to build out of the draft, and had a lot of assets to work with. Browns plan was simple:
"the more picks you have, the more choices you cna make. The more choices you cna make, the greater your chances of striking gold"
It was a sound strategy, far more sound than any plan Dorsey has so far...hell I don't even think Dorsey has a plan, he is just picking what he thinks is talented, there is no plan.
John Dorsey was "gifted" the best GM position in history with a boatload of extra picks and all kinds of cap money and "this" is what we get?
He most certainly should be fired tommorow right along with Kitchens.
I have not read a lot of this thread but the just is where we place blame for this season.
Not saying Dorsey will or even should be fired, but should the Browns replace him tomorrow, do you think one of the first comments from the new GM will be "WE got to get these players some real coaches"?
Depodesta is maneuvering himself into a President of the Browns type of role. Sadly, Dorsey has made this easy for him by simply not listening to him on key issues.
Depodesta now goes to Haslam and says:
Remember, I was on record we should have hired McDermot Remember, I was also on record stating we should have hired Stephanski, not Kitchens.
Dorsey has just made this too easy for Depodesta to just side step him and take control and its going to happen.
Before next season, Depodesta will be Dorsey's boss if Dorsey is still here,
I invite you or anyone to look up AND POST Depodesta's football history and experience.
Depodesta is maneuvering himself into a President of the Browns type of role. Sadly, Dorsey has made this easy for him by simply not listening to him on key issues.
Depodesta now goes to Haslam and says:
Remember, I was on record we should have hired McDermot Remember, I was also on record stating we should have hired Stephanski, not Kitchens.
Dorsey has just made this too easy for Depodesta to just side step him and take control and its going to happen.
Before next season, Depodesta will be Dorsey's boss if Dorsey is still here,
I invite you or anyone to look up AND POST Depodesta's football history and experience.
Dorsey was fired twice for the same things he's done here...power/ego trip, not trusting advisors and spending like there's not a salary cap. There needs to be a president in place above Dorsey to be quorum between the FO coach and GM. Let Dorsey do his thing as far as scouting. Let a president and Depo do the cap and contracts
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
I think you are giving up on him too soon. Not sure you were ever in his corner. Next year tells the tale.
What does giving up on him means? Put him above the team, then no, you shouldn't do it with anyone.
All my reservations about him showed to be true. I don't think he is a bad QB, but never saw him has elite, and truly believe that he should have sit last year, and should have been benched this year.
People just get to involved in this, I think what we did with Kizer, Weeden and others was the good thing to do. Just move one, the risk you take is just not worth it.
The risk we are going to take with Baker can be minimized, just sign a viable backup QB, and if Baker starts playing like this next year just move him.
If he needs more time to mature and learn the game, just bench him and develop him.
No need to make a big Drama. Don't do like the Bucks did
Depodesta is maneuvering himself into a President of the Browns type of role. Sadly, Dorsey has made this easy for him by simply not listening to him on key issues.
Depodesta now goes to Haslam and says:
Remember, I was on record we should have hired McDermot Remember, I was also on record stating we should have hired Stephanski, not Kitchens.
Dorsey has just made this too easy for Depodesta to just side step him and take control and its going to happen.
Before next season, Depodesta will be Dorsey's boss if Dorsey is still here,
I invite you or anyone to look up AND POST Depodesta's football history and experience.
He has none. That doesn't disqualify you from being a team executive.
Running a team is more than being a "football guy".
Everybody has a role. Some are operational, such as scouting, some are executive level....you know, the lawyer and accounting stuff.
It takes both, Mac.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Freddie Yes I don't see Dorsey going anywhere … JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Fair enough, but I think Haslam realizes he has been hoodwinked.
He suffered though 1-15 and then 0-16
In comes Dorsey promising him, "Let me take control and let me spend some money and i'll fix this"
So Haslam let him make all sorts of trades, give up draft picks, and even hire his own coach while taking on millions in contracts and this is the garbage he gets in return?
Honestly, We should have just stuck with Sashi Brown if this was going to be the results. Sure, it was rough, but Brown actually had a plan to build out of the draft, and had a lot of assets to work with. Browns plan was simple:
"the more picks you have, the more choices you cna make. The more choices you cna make, the greater your chances of striking gold"
It was a sound strategy, far more sound than any plan Dorsey has so far...hell I don't even think Dorsey has a plan, he is just picking what he thinks is talented, there is no plan.
John Dorsey was "gifted" the best GM position in history with a boatload of extra picks and all kinds of cap money and "this" is what we get?
He most certainly should be fired tommorow right along with Kitchens.
I am trying hard to get on board with Dorsey or at least stay neutral, but he hasn't yet passed this test...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
I think it's a pretty good bet that Freddie will be gone. Not sure about Dorsey. I would have thought it was pretty clear he would be back until recently; now I'm not so sure. Haslam may have been working the back channels recently, seeing if there is anyone who he might want to get in here instead.
On the surface if a new structure is established, it doesn't bode well for Dorsey regarding, at a minimum, the HC search as he flexed those muscles for Kitchens.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Yep, Dorsey shouldn't have any input at all in the coaching search.. I believe Depo will be made president and Dorsey will report to him
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
The Browns have been through all this multiple times, and the result has pretty much been the same.
I don't give a rip who they hire as head coach (whoever it is damn well better win next year, or get fired) I don't give a flip who they draft, I don't give a flip about anything until they start winning games.
And i'm pretty sure firing head coaches every 2 years on average, isn't the way to do it.
I don't support the Browns financially like several on here do, but I'm tired as hell with the 're boot' every 2 years.
I have not read a lot of this thread but the just is where we place blame for this season.
Not saying Dorsey will or even should be fired, but should the Browns replace him tomorrow, do you think one of the first comments from the new GM will be "WE got to get these players some real coaches"?
While I think we should retain Dorsey, for those of you calling people "insane" for wanting him gone, then WHERE do you place the blame for us woefully underachieving this season? Was it Baker Mayfield? Dorsey is the one who had first choice and picked him over all other QBs of that draft. Was it the O-line? Dorsey traded away a Pro-Bowl guard in Zeitler, because he thought his guy Corbett could do the job himself. He then also ignored the Tackle spots, sticking with the low budget finds that he had brought in. Was in Freddie Kitchens and the coaching? Dorsey is the one who flexed his muscles and picked him over the consensus guy, then basically let him scrap the coaching structure that we had built up from previous years. And then if reports are true, he adamantly insisted that we stick with the hire, despite the team crashing and burning to a 6 win record.
So while he's earned himself a lot of cachet for last year's draft, he certainly blew through most of that house money with this year's results. For those that support Dorsey, then my second question is this, who has he brought in to establish himself as a talent finding genius? While there are a number of players that I think that would qualify, why did we have such a poor year? If your answer is the coaching staff ... then why was Dorsey standing by them?
I invite you or anyone to look up AND POST Depodesta's football history and experience.
He has none. That doesn't disqualify you from being a team executive.
Running a team is more than being a "football guy".
Everybody has a role. Some are operational, such as scouting, some are executive level....you know, the lawyer and accounting stuff.
It takes both, Mac.
peen is the winner with the correct answer...Depodesta is not qualified to hold a GM position for the Browns.
If Depodesta stays in his lane and does what he is best at...and I still don't know what Depodesta does for the Browns...but the Browns must have a football guy assisting the new HC, helping him find the type of players the new HC needs.
Depodesta's job with the Browns has been on a part time basis as he and the family reside in San Diago, CA.
In 2016, Depo and his wife started a business named Sports Mind Institute.
Best way to learn about Depo is listen to his interviews...
It was interesting to listen to Depo talk about his first draft, based on analytics...the Cory Coleman pick.
Cory Coleman, who was traded to the Bills (on 8-5-18) for a 7th round draft pick. Coleman did not survive the Bills final cut... ...picked up by the Patriots but was cut after 7 days. ...picked up by the Giants on 10-19-18. Spent time on their practice squad and active roster...was signed by the Giants for 2019. ...Coleman tore his ACL on the first day of training camp (2019) and missed the 2019 season.
Just one example of how far off analytics can be and how it might have helped the Browns..Ohio State WR, Michael Thomas (6-3, 212) was available to the Browns in the first and second rounds and they passed on him.
There is no way in hell that Dorsey should answer to Depodesta.
Haslam is creating this disfunctional management set up..it's up to Jimmy to define Depodesta's job and where he stands in the decision making process.
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