DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey

So because he missed on Corey Coleman he shouldnt be consulted. What about the two years worth of drafts outside of Chubb Dorsey has missed on?
2018
Mayfield- Awesome rookie season, historically bad second year...jury still out
Ward- One concussion away from a career, very mediocre to bad this year..
corbett Sucked and traded
chubb Stud, best pick of either draft
C.Thomas God awful, guys off street more impactful
Callaway- cut
Avery Mishandled and given up on
Ratley he's no higgins
S.Thomas cut

traded a 3rd for 2.5 games of Tyrod Taylor
Gave hubbard 36 million dollars to be the worst RT in football
TJ Carrie won lottery given how average he's been..

11 picks basically 3 contributors

2019
Traded for Odell and vernon giving up a 1st and Peppers and the top RG. Created more holes than helped
Signed a bunch of meh role players that contributed very little outside of Richardson
Failed to fix the tackle position
Did a good thing taking a chance on Hunt
Ogbah was better for the Chiefs than Murray (who he was traded for) was for us
Trading picks for McCray and Taylor...ugh
I'm still not convinced Gillan is a better punter, but he's younger and cheaper..so i'm good with that
Siebert..horrible but still rookie, I give him a couple more years, but def. bring in competition
Greedy Williams- Horrible, can't tackle or cover..just not strong enough to play alone
Mack Wilson- Raw, has no business starting
Takitaki and redwine- big reaches with poor results
Forbes- jury still out, gets alot of love from some preseason games

For all of the talk about culture since Dorsey arrived, it seems like it's actually worse than when he got here.
Undoubtedly, the mess of a head coaching decision led to some of this, but Dorsey has always approached this in terms of adding talent.
It's never felt like someone actually building a team. And they often played like a collection of talent rather than a team.
He tries to take shortcuts and its actually set us back. They have to get the HC hire right

I'm agreement on the coach...it has to be right this time. But PD was here during those 13 wins as well. I don't think anyone thinks PD should be a GM, but II think the issue is Dorsey seems to disregard anything the analytics say and goes against based on whatever he feels, which is his right, but the last two coaches PD recommended would have been the correct call opposed to Dorsey's picks. I think Dorsey and his ego are his own worst enemy, I think he needs a check and balance. Someone that can look at the data and say yeah its good/bad/marginal. That guy would be PD. Not saying everything PD's data says is correct but should atleast be considered and in the case of coaching where the overwhelming data point one way and he goes another..That looks bad. Last year the two analytic pics were Flores and Stefanski. From day one I didn't think FK was the right pick and actually I made a post how I wasn't sure if he could handle a team with this talent and expectations. If the average fan felt like this, not sure how a guy like dorsey couldn't see it. I feel there is more to how it came about and I believe it has to do with baker

j/c --

Sounds to me like Jimmuh is somewhat regretting giving up on the Sashi Brown approach too soon. Dorsey has squandered almost all the good Sashi did and now it's almost all for naught.

Only in Cleveland.

Harsh words.

Truth can be harsh.

I agree - with the exception of the fact that the person responsible for the hiring of Freddie was also responsible for talent acquisition, and he's done a better job of that than any other GM we've had since '99. Dorsey absolutely owns the Freddie mistake, he doesn't get fired because he's shown that his other areas of responsibility have been successful. . . . before anyone starts questioning that statement, please note that I did NOY say Dorsey has been perfect or not made mistakes. As for the OBJ / Vernon / Peppers / Zeitler trades ... I think it's impossible to judge based on this year. If history judges that we lost out on those, I think Dorsey's grade gets altered quite a bit.

Amen !

Agreed 100%

I'm largely repeating, but I think it's worth it. You don't pass up bluechip, proven NFL talent that aren't over the hill (Vernon, OBJ). Giving up Zeitler was rough, but he thought he had Corbett ready to go. That's a draft miss right there.

You mean the NBA guy?

You still don't get it.

Oh I got it. 1-31 worth of got it.

While he's got some serious misses on his ledger (Kitchens and Corbett), Dorsey still has done more good than harm. Far more, IMO. That should keep his job safe, for now.

The problem is, at least for the upcoming HC hire, he's lost leverage and will have to work more with others going forward. That opens up the possibility that Dorsey might be forced out once the new coaching staff begins to be assembled.

I don't want this to happen, but I'm emotionally preparing myself.

13-18-1 over 1-31 Dorsey has a lot more good than bad ...

Dorsey was let go from KC because he refused to work well with others. Its been written and posted about on the board. I don't think this ends well for John. Especially if he tries to "flex his muscles" again at Jimmy.

AS much as we hate it, this is, was, and will be Jimmy's team until HE decides to sell it. Whomever they decide to hire, and the power that is given to the HC, John either likes it or leaves.

The coach doesn't choose his GM. Some of the things this fan base buys into is amazing.

You are correct, but Dorsey has lost leverage within the FO, and a head coach has to be hired. A guy coming in that doesn't work well with Dorsey will have a longer leash than JD.

Coaches choose the GM all the time.

And the organization that wants JMc will need to allow that most likely. I dont mind it so much as long as he doesn't try to take it on himself. Too much!!!

Normally, no.
But didn't we hire Hue before we hired a GM?

Also, its jimmy man - I fully expect this to be done half arse backwards

Pete Carroll chose John Schneider
Kyle Shanahan chose John Lynch
Andy Reid chose John Dorsey (then fired him and chose Brett Veach)
Sean McDermott chose Brandon Beane
Bill O'Brien chose himself
Jon Gruden chose Mike Mayock

The order doesn't matter. Everyone just has to be on the same page.

All the time? Are you using hyperbole here?

All the time meaning it is not unusual.

Well you named six instances out of thirty two teams that covered quite a bit of time. If you look at all of the HC hires over that amount of time I would say it's more unusual than you indicate.

Nope. I indicated the right amount of usual.

It's not freakishly rare.

It's not uncommon.

If we got the right HC - and the price was him choosing his own GM, I don't have a problem at all. . . If we don't get our top choice, I'm a lot less flexible with regard to getting the next guy on the list, or the guy after him or the guy after .... etc

Your list goes back to January of 2010. This will be the 10th coaching cycle since that time and you only listed six. So 40 or more HC's have been hired and you call the conditions under which six of them have been hired isn't unusual.

Alrighty then.

j/c

I think a lot depends on how much Jimmy was or is committed to the system DePo put in place. One could assume fairly committed if DePo was retained after Sashi was let go and Dorsey brought in. I think between Dorsey's comments about the nerds and flexing his muscle, clearly he hadn't bought in fully to what DePo was doing. I'd hazard to guess that Dorsey was able to persuade Jimmy to move away from that plan. If DePo put forth HC candidates backed up with data that turned out to do well AND are being considered again, maybe Jimmy's learned a huge lesson about straying from the plan.

Now, I wouldn't want DePo in charge of deciding who the next HC should be. But I also don't think he would necessarily want to be the guy to do that anyway. I think DePo's function is to put forth candidates, data if possible, and assess the pros and cons of any other suggestions (i.e. from Dorsey). I do however feel there is great value in taking DePo's recommendations seriously because they are much more likely to be objective, dispassionate, and have a clearer place in the over all organizational mission. You are less likely to have to deal with GM egos, and him wanting a coach he can" control". That kind of pettiness has no place in a professional organization.

j/c...

Putting this in Dorsey thread as it's related to the FO.

He is the best we have at evaluating talent imo. I would be sorry to see him leave for Miami.

I get the feeling that Dorsey is twisting in the wind while Haslam considers McDaniel. If he's only willing to come here with veto power over who is GM, then I'd say stay home, Josh.

Dorsey is scheduled to address the media tomorrow. I'm guessing we'll leave that press conference with more questions than answers.

But your snotty dig at the fanbase indicated it never happens and it's "amazing" anybody would think so. 'member this?

"The coach doesn't choose his GM. Some of the things this fan base buys into is amazing."

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't be surprised if Highsmith was the main force behind drafting Chad Thomas and Sheldrick Redwine.

Indeed. Hard to say they aren't true. Hard to say John's first hire as a coach wasn't a total flop.

I don't think we fire the guy, but he is going to be checked.

He was given the keys to the vault with draft picks which didn't produce much in comparison the the number of picks he had at his disposal and his choice of a head coach was historically bad.

I think John didn't want a strong head coach. He has lost power struggles in the past. He didn't want it that way here. Freddie was under his thumb.

Our "real players" didn't play all that well. John's thumb print is all over that.

Now he gets to take a reduced role. I'd let John scout, then see how his evaluations compare to Depo's. I think that has already happened. Depo is very organized and smart. I am sure he has provided Jimmy his big board as compared to John's. A year or two later, it would be telling to compare the boards

Apparently the next coach will have input in deciding Dorsey's future. Sounds like the next coach will not be answering to Dorsey, Dorsey will be answering to the next coach. If I were Dorsey I would resign!

So Dorsey is going to be more of a scout now than a GM? Then don't blame Dorsey if things go bad again next year. The power struggle continues!!!

I've never heard that, but I know that he was instrumental in Drafting Chubb, and not only that, but I think that he is very knowledgeable at his trade.

And The guy (Berry) who wanted Chad Thomas is no longer here.

Redwine had two good weeks followed by two nots so good weeks ... he is a rookie.

That all depends on how long Dorsey’s contract is. You get fired, you get paid. You quit, Haslem get’s paid by keeping that cash for himself.