DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey

Not gonna lie. I'm surprised at the support of Dorsey around here.

The guy failed.

I don't know if it's true or not either, but the few tidbits of actual information out there do support this theory. There was an article that summed up the leadup and exit from KC. It painted him as a master of his craft, but also abrasive and tough to work with. Very 'my way or the highway'. Any coaches like Reid, or a McDaniels or others that have to have some control of things beyond the field won't work well with Dorsey (I think we can safely conclude that).

I really want to keep Dorsey. I think, despite his misses (which everyone has) he has done much more good, and still has more good to do. The guy has shown he can own his mistakes (Corbett, Calloway, and now Freddie), and he can swing deals and think outside the box to get players in the building.

I'm not on the McCarthy hype train, but now I am wondering if he might be our best bet to get a decent coach in here that will also allow us to retain Dorsey and everyone can be happy. Depends on how real all these rumblings are about FO shakeup accompanying the coaching search.

I'll say one more thing. If Haslam/Depo are changing the org structure, and Dorsey loses some power/influence to the coach, it will be all the more important that that coach can work well with Dorsey (like McCarthy), but is also a more experienced/stronger guy (again, like McCarthy). A super green college coach brought in because of his flashy, flavor-of-the-month offense is going to (intentionally or unintentionally) cause chaos in Berea clanging heads with Dorsey.

Nice summary by Pluto. Really hope we hire a game coach. If we want to expand his duties, mandate that cannot happen until year two. Such a lousy end to the season with FK, I am still trying to get that stench out. Somebody needs to crank BM's work and development aggressively. Year-end stats from last season to this one say a lot about where he is at this moment. Limit his interviews. Focus him. He needs to achieve more and radically cut picks. Spare me the "1-0" and the "going forward" lectures. Shut up and win.

I like your analysis and take on McCarthy. He did not interview before last year if I recall. Let's not drag this out forever. If not Rivera, lets get done and begin transition. I do not want a coach with no HC experience in the Bigs.

Wishful, perhaps, but McCarthy and Dorsey at 90% are huge advantage over the sludge we saw this year. Maybe Dorsey can be dialed back some as well.

I'm still saying Dorsey gets miffed at someone they bring in or want and gives an ultimatum. These guys all run in their cliques. Especially anyone established.

J/C

We have enough to talent win some games alone. We lost plenty of games squarely on Freddie's plan, and his game time decisions.

I believe with a coach that can simply manage timeouts and understand basic gameday situational football, we make the playoffs, easily.

With a coach that can get more out of his players as a leader, and get guys to run through a brick wall for him, we are in the SB.

It's not factual - it is 100% speculation.

j/c...

Oh boy.

Oh boy, indeed...

Dorsey needs a lesser role or to be gone.

When we were set up as well as we were and then two years later we are firing his 3rd coach after a 6-10 record, he doesn't get it.

Follow-up....

Don't forget he hired Haley to be the heir apparent to Hue, how did that turn out?

Too many scenarios at play. Actual meetings? Wolf/DePodesta takeover? The New England connection coming? Something entirely different?

Not really. OBJ injured. Vernon injured. 2 young 'stud' CB's injured for long stretch. MG suspended. . . . . Everyone is entitled to an opinion - but I'll wait for a stretch of games when some of these key parts that were acquired this year can actually contribute before passing final judgement.

I didn’t say u wanted him gone ... i said your one of many that has made him the new lighting rod ...

Only way i said u wanted him gone is if u miss Sashi and i know your not a (I’ll be nice here cause bbrowns is a good dude) sashiette and u don't miss him ...

Next..... *L* ...

He hired Haley as OC.
How did Haley's offense work out last year once the internal in fighting was squashed? I'd say pretty damn well.

What i don’t get is posters like Peen ... everything good that happens is Depo .... everything bad that happens is KJ ... i don’t get that even a little bit ...

About the only thing we know about depo is he thought Wentz was not a franchise QB and analytics said Corey Coleman was a way way better pick than one M. Thomas ... so all we know about him is hes 0 - 2 ... Maybe analytics says he’s due to get one right .... *L* ...

I wouldn't call me a sashi hater, or a Dorsey lover.

I think Sashi had a job to do, and executed it. I don't think the Haslams believed he was the man to acquire the type of talent they wanted on the team, and John has been able to acquire that talent.

I do see where though that John has failed (Freddie, getting me guys, and not putting talent above every other intangible), but I still think he deserves his job. But he needs to realize that he has made some BIG mistakes.

Im ok with guys making mistakes, no one is perfect. I was ok with cutting guys like Nassib and trading Ogbah, but hindsight, those were mistakes. Not big deal though.

Hiring Freddie - HUGE mistake. This was a big deal.

If John stays (and he should), if misses again on the next coach, he will be fired.

That really doenst matter does it? Haley HIMSELF, was a disaster. You don't get to rewrite history. Haley was a jerkoff and a mistake to hire. FYI, all reports are that Zampese and company ALTERED Haleys offense. So it exactly wasn't Haleys offense either. But hey, you got a post in.

I was a guy that wanted Freddie. Ill take that L, however I am not paid millions of dollars to make that decision, so me being right or wrong is really not important is it?

Dorsey however, IS getting paid millions to make that decision, and he failed. What I, peen, or anyone on this board thinks or thought rather, doesn't matter.

It literally was reported that Dorsey "flexed his muscles" and got Freddit hired. The other side of the team (analytics" wanted others. Dorsey wanted to keep Freddie. You don't get to change the facts after they happened.

Now let's not bring facts in front of a lynch mob. You know yourself a baseball guy and now an NBA pencil pusher would be the answer.

I wanted Freddie to be the HC as well. Unfortunately, it didn't work out.

I don't pretend to be a Dorsey-ite (see how that works, Diam), but I am trying to be at least neutral. I do admit, however, that I liked the plan Sashi had and really would have liked to see how it would have played out to this point in time...

Hogwash.

Depo wanted Stefanski and I believe florres. Stefanski is still up in air as hes not a HC, but I would wager he does better than Freddie.

Florres has done magic with the talent he had. Hell, they had worse talent in MIA than Hue had here, and he won 4 games his first year, beating the Pats.

46 Football guys passed on M. Thomas as well. To try and paint either way as perfect in draft success, is well - painting with a broad brush.

Also, EVERY football guy, uses Analytics to a degree when drafting. Its here, its not going anywhere.

You did.

This is how it played out.

Year 5 forthcoming.

Now a senior VP; I say he has done very well for himself...

Literally every outlet has stated Depo and anylytics pushed Stefanski and Florres over Freddie, so yes. Yes we do.

Nobody is saying not to use analytics. They're saying you don't make analytics the boss.

No. They didn’t ’but add the title’ of HC, they gave him the actual responsibility of HC. I’d also be willing to be that within that pipeline in order to advance, candidate would have to demonstrate on some level the ability to advance to the next level. It’s how most normal jobs work.

I don't recall anyone saying that you it should be the boss. But to not use it a heavy tool when looking at players - is not smart.

And to try to paint it as a failure as some have, is also disingenuous.

Did you forget to use purple? I don't believe for one minute that where we are now, is anything like must have been Sashi's vision...

Interesting cause all i remember was everyone saying they were all on board with the Freddie hire ... it was a unanimous decision about a year ago ...

Now FOR THE FIRST TIME were hearing about who Depo wanted ...

Hogwash is correct dawg .... u can also slide REVISIONIST history in there ...

Brian Flores being a good analytics choice ... .... based off what ... the success all of the other D-coordinators BB has turned into great HC’s ... how long was Brian the DC in NE? ... look it up and get back to me ...

Flores being an analytical pick ... ...

What we do know is how depo felt about Wentz and how he felt about CC ...

And your argument about others passing on M. Thomas is COMPLETE and UTTER BS (or hogwash .. *L*) ...

How many of those other teams had NO WRS going into the draft ... how many of those other teams drafted 3, 4 or 5 WRs in the WORST WR DRAFT IN THE LAST 20 YEARS ...

How many of those other teams took a WR before M. Thomas was drafted ... u have a point if u narrowed it down to those teams but lumping the entire league in with Sashi on that one ... HOGWASH ... like i said ... COMPLETE AND UTTER BS ...

U best stick with the low hangin fruit with your BS bro ... I’ll call it out ...

its a real shame we’ll never find out ... ...

Sashi most certainly transcended the sport ... he transcended it so well his job in football was done so he moved on to hoops ...

A lot of guys were, I was. Ill admit that. I was wrong.

We heard about this last year. It was reported John went around and "flexed his muslces" and got the coach he wanted. That's not new.

I am literally listening to the radio right now and they JUST talked about how Depo wanted Florres and and Stefanski last year. These are beat reporters with sources, not your opinion on what is an analytical pick or not.

We do. And literally fans in Philly are P'off they kept Wentz and not Foles. When Wentz wins a big game, or stays healthy - we can see if he was the worth #2. I don't think that book has been written yet.

I literally don't even know what your talking about here

Name one GM that doesn't use analytics. Ill wait.

J/C

Lets get back to John, as its his thread.

No a good sign for buddy boy his PC was cancelled today. . . ..

probably meaning... he's staying with the team and finding a new HC is way more important than talking to the media