DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns fire John Dorsey

So glad Dorsey got fired.now I don't have to hear
The CBD host Zagura and Bishop keep on saying
" the Full Dorse" everytime they gushed over him
And Kitchens

Makes you wonder what a disaster this whole team was assembled with...We got rid of the dysfunction with Hue and Haley...and went right back to dysfunction with Freddie/Monken...this team is clueless on creating an inviting environment.

Is Monken still employed by the Browns?

Someone needs to test the water in Berea. I used to say it as a joke, but I'm not so sure I should be joking about it any more.

Someone needs to do an historical search on the plat the is 76 Groza. Is it a node for negative energy? Is it an ancient burial site?

The only thing that functions like clockwork in CLE is dysfunction.

______________________


Back when I discovered the old board, it felt like this online representation of the Browns fan base was the coolest thing that ever happened to my fandom. Here we are, 20 years later... and we're the same folks having the exact same conversations in December and January. The only things that have changed are the number of creases in our faces and our natural hair color. We can't even reminisce about that 3-4 year period when everything was positive and hopeful.

The exact same conversations. About the exact same problems. 20 years later.

I'm so over this.

I recommend to go to Reddit sometimes for a sanity check.

Much like politics, this board tends towards extremism.

Reddit tends towards more moderate sensible opinions.

I don't think he was fired. He lost luster, was told so, and he and the ownership agreed to a separation. I think could have stayed had he agreed.


Who thinks we could have allowed that guy to pick the next coach? Raise your hands now.


Not me.

I have said multiple times in this very board that we need people running the team that are going to put the Browns first...put the Browns before themselves.

I did that just for you and magee88.

Hey listen, I've been saying since week 6 or so that this organization is rotten from the top down and that there were a bunch of people in the building that put themselves before the Browns. I even called Dorsey wanting to "win" against Depo instead of getting the best coach. All of it is playing out.

The only thing that will prevent my calls on Baker playing out is Baker.

Baker, you currently suck at playing QB. What are you going to do about it?

That’s true ... the whole Dorsey thing was getting old

In the midst of Firing Fatigue, what comes next for Cleveland Browns after John Dorsey’s departure?

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12...and-browns.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio — I’ll just say it: I would not have fired John Dorsey as general manager of the Cleveland Browns.

Dorsey made some major mistakes, especially hiring Freddie Kitchens as head coach. When Dorsey looks back at his 24 months in Cleveland, that should be his biggest regret.

We can talk about his trades, his draft picks, things that worked and things that failed.

But it was Kitchens that sunk Dorsey. It led to the ownership’s decision to ask him to take a lesser role with the front office. Dorsey didn’t believe that was fair.

There’s no reason to debate the decision. It’s done.

These are the Browns, where no top football executive has survived more than Dorsey’s 25 months since the Haslam family bought the team in 2012.

When the team has a tough season, people get fired. Or they have a “mutual parting,” as was the case with Dorsey and the Browns on the final day of 2019.

ANOTHER REBOOT

This move signals another change in how Dee and Jimmy Haslam want to run the team.

I’m told they want to do something like what happened in San Francisco, where John Lynch was hired as GM on January 30, 2017. A week later, Kyle Shanahan was named head coach.

But the two had discussed working together for a while before their new jobs were announced.

It was a risky move. A former player, Lynch had never worked in an NFL front office before. Shanahan had never been a head coach. Shanahan basically picked Lynch to be his boss.

But it paid off, as the 49ers completed a trade for QB Jimmy Garoppolo in 2017 and they had a 13-3 record this season.

I’m told the Browns want to avoid an arranged marriage such as the one they had with GM Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine. Nor do they want a situation where there is a front-office split about who should be the head coach, such the debate over Hue Jackson vs. Sean McDermott in 2017 and Kevin Stefanski vs. Kitchens in 2019.

Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta will be involved in the hiring process. He favored McDermott and Stefanski in the coaching debates.

But I’m told DePodesta will not be head of football operations.

The Browns plan to hire a GM and they want him tied to the coach.

My sense is the coach will have a strong say in picking the GM, much like Shanahan did with the 49ers.

NOW WHAT?

The new rumor is New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels becomes the head coach, and he brings in an executive such as John Carroll grads Nick Caserio or Dave Zeigler, both working for the Patriots.

The other name being mentioned is Scott Pioli, a former New England, Kansas City and Atlanta executive. Pioli worked for the Browns in the early 1990s. He resigned as Atlanta’s assistant GM in the spring, so he’s available right now.

I’m told the Browns are interested in McDaniels. But they are not wedded to the idea that he must be the coach.

Of course, you hear a lot of things.

The Browns are intrigued by the 49ers’ operation. San Francisco defensive coordinator Robert Saleh also is a candidate for head coach.

But McDaniels as coach with the hiring of someone he knows sounds like the 49ers’ model with Shanahan and Lynch.

THIS IS HARD

It’s always easier to fire someone believed to be the “wrong guy” for the job than finding the right replacement.

That’s especially true if the owners are known for being impatient. It leads coaches and GMs to make moves to win now. Dorsey did some of that in his trades with the Giants (Olivier Vernon, Odell Beckham Jr.) and signing veteran free agents.

The Browns have tried the strong CEO/GM type with Joe Banner (2012-14) and Dorsey. They tried analytics/total rebuild with Sashi Brown (2016-17). There was the arranged marriage of Farmer and Pettine (2014-15).

The Haslams have never stuck with much of anything for very long.

I confess to having Firing Fatigue as I write this story.

But most of all, I feel for the fans who have to endure this, decade-after-decade. I don’t even know what to say to them, other than they are the ones who have really paid the emotional price for the mistakes of ownership since the team returned in 1999.

j/c:

But wait, we were told Sashi was doing all the talent evaluation!

This guy is the X factor for me. Haslam seems to love him. Football people seem to be high in him. I dont see what any of the candidates have in common with him. (history wise) When I consider he could be the GM then my mind goes to Stefanski who I believe would be the one guy to work with nearly anyone.

I'm very interested in the possibility of an Andrew Berry return. I agree...I believe he is highly respected in the NFL, his role here was so underrated by people on this board, and believes in analytics.

There was a follow up tweet from P. Smith saying he and DePodesta worked extremely well together so take that for what it is worth.

Well then,he also would have been part of the group that drafted Corey Coleman.

True. But those posters were living in some alternate universe...

He was. He was also part of the group that selected Garrett & Schobert and accumulated several additional 1st and 2nd round picks to rebuild the team.

....where Hue Jackson would still be the coach because all of his failures were due to not having better players.

Andrew Berry was most likely part of the "general manager" position since we technically didn't have one when Sashi was here.

Sashi got a lot of stink for "having final say" on the roster, although when you work with a bunch of selfless guys with the same goal and mindset it doesn't really matter, does it?

Why did we even hire Dorsey again?

Because Haslam was told he needed a football guy. I'm not sure Haslam doesn't seek and listen to soooooo many opinions that he gets mired in the decision process.

I'd welcome Berry back with open arms. I always thought he was a sharp guy.

That's what I have been trying to get across to a few people, Sashi was GM in name only. He left the Coaches do their job and he left the Scouting department do their job and he only stepped in when there was a dispute between the two on a player. All the QBs we drafted before Baker were done by the scouting department with Hue's approval.

I'm not certain on the Hue approval part.

Personally, I'm fine with Schobert testing FA. I think he is a solid LB, but he still has me yearning for more. The entire Baltimore game, I'm waiting for Schow to step up and make it a Lamar vs. Schow story, but never got that. You think of the greats like Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Seau... Other guys like Kuechly, Patrick Willis.. Bruschi... They were a QB's arch nemesis... Joe has not shown he can be that.

He gets the tackles.. and he has made plays.. I just don't think he's worth any big money.

Good because Joe is the leader of the D and David has talent that we need to keep. Both have the potential of getting better. It seems to me that while initially John Dorsey was a good hire and made a lot of positive moves in his 1st year his moves and judgement weren't as good in the past year. Maybe the power went to his head maybe it was ego but something was wrong with his decision making in the 2nd year.

Or... Haslam said it knowing it would drive Dorsey out allowing him to NOT look like a doofus with another firing.

I cant connect a guy who doesn't even care to live in the state yet wanting full control over the FO in Ohio with Depodesta.

He's got it made!!! Fiddle with your slide rule or whatever, stay home AND get paid by the Haslams!

j/c

I've read several posts in this thread detailing the many failures of Dorsey...or apparent failures...from those who I would say are not-necessarily-upset-he's-gone. Lots of details on drafts and free agency spending.

On the other hand, all I'm reading from those who apparently are upset that he is gone is that "he brought in all this talent". Yet there are precious little details about who exactly represents "all this talent" (other than what I list below).

If all you have to prove your point of great talent acquisition is two, very-high 1st Rd picks (Mayfield & Ward), one very-high 2nd Rd pick (Chubb), a trade (Landry...not OBJ) and a chance (Hunt)...I'd say that level of "success" should be a given...not an accomplishment. Even allowing for an even-higher 2nd Rd bust of a pick (Corbett).

The Zeitler trade and Corbett talent evaluation is a particularly damning example of poor judgement. Yes...2nd Rd picks sometimes bust...that's not my issue...it's the combined bust pick with awful talent evaluation that maddeningly concluded that Corbett could play RG good-enough to trade a top 10 G in the league...with a 6' sophomore QB under center. That's ego folks...simple as that...coupled with a massive miss in talent eval.

Talent acquisition includes keeping and/or cultivating what you started with. In that regard, Zeitler/Corbett isn't the only booger on his shirt. Reiter is a very good C for the Chiefs...Dorsey cut him. Nassib is a Team Captain in Tampa Bay...Dorsey cut him. Perriman had another good year doing exactly what he did here in 2018...Dorsey released him. Fells was allowed to walk and was replaced with Harris (a Dorsey favorite who was just better than awful this year). Ogbah played well as a backup until he got hurt...we did get Murray in return and he "might" be as equally serviceable. Avery was traded for a 4th Rd pick in 2021...not 2020...2021...a pick Dorsey won't get to make.

I won't even get into the dismal OTs and the virtual-nothing behind Chubb until Hunt was active.

Going deeper on the draft. 3rd and 4th Rd picks should be promising players who contribute and hopefully develop...maybe even some 5th Rd guys. What did Dorsey accomplish there?

Chad Thomas - Might someday contribute as much as Ogbah;
Callaway - Worth a shot;
Avery - inexplicably traded for a pick after the next draft;
Takitaki - Who? Looks more like 5th Rd pick to me;
Redwine - I actually think he could work out eventually;
Wilson - At least a decent STer after we get some real football players in here at LB;
A kicker - ok.

I won't bag on any 6th or 7th Rders...shots in the dark. But none of the guys listed above appear to be anything even close to 'special'...the most 'special' guy in that group IMO was traded.

I am not happy that Dorsey is gone. I am rather indifferent. He did 'some' good but with such a great hand dealt to him it should have been much better...he did some bad drafting and cap squandering. We got worse at OL, TE, RB-until-game-10 and DL at a minimum. I won't bash or cheer the OBJ trade...not yet anyway.

I suppose others may see the overall talent acquisition as being better than I do...but I don't think I'll see a detailed breakdown supporting his work vs what you can see above.

Dorsey is going to have a hard time getting another NFL job.

I feel the same about Njoku, but opposite about Schobert.

I think Schobert's offseason (and maybe some others) will be a strong indicator whether we're headed for the dreaded rebuild or not. Schobert may not always blow your socks off with plays like the tip top LBs, but he's the leader of the D, and a glue guy that also makes lots of plays. He's also durable. Many of those attributes get deprioritized when you're about to blow up the roster.

I'm torn on Joe based on what he/we may think he's worth on his next deal...15 mil? No way. 7-8 mil...sure. If he's not re-signed it won't be because he isn't a priority as much as it'll be because the $$$ simply doesn't make sense.

No, he won't. He is in the "Good Ole' Boys Club".

#TheCocoon

If he had been watching, I bet he would have said the same thing about Drew Brees his first few seasons. That's what happens when people live in a Microwave society. If it doesn't happen in three minutes or less it isn't going to.

Instead we have Haslam picking the next coach. That's worse than Dorsey.

This is coming from the guy that made fun of posters for liking Baker Mayfield pre-draft

You know how this works Eve. Everybody swears that MKC sucks. Until of course she says something they want to hear. Then she's suddenly quotable and validated.

Except it wasn't MKC that wrote the article and your reaction is to an auto-generated sales piece at the bottom of an article on Cleveland.com.

Well done, both of you.

PitDawg didn't even look at the article. Derpity Derp.

I agree with you there Peen. I think the parting of the ways was mutual as well. While it's pure speculation on my part, I think Haslam decided that when it came to coaching decisions at the very least, Dorsey would no longer have full control. That would be a new part of the structure moving forward.

I simply don't think they could come to an agreement on what that new structure would be.