DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns now have clear shot at hiring Josh McDaniels as next HC

Daboll was horrible when he was here. I am not a fan. If we must hire a guy that has never been a HC before like some of you want then go for a guy that seems capable. Greg Roman. His offense took the Niners to a SB and just won our division handily. He's been a coordinator for quite a while under a number of different coaches so of all the coordinators I think he stands the best chance. I really hate hiring a guy that has never been a HC but that seems to be where we are headed. Again. An added bonus is we take him away from a divisional rival.

I wonder if Mike Shanahan could be coaxed out of retirement?

Has he ever been a head coach on any level?

Kubiak, now there's a name... Let's interview him.

Can you list all the starting quarterbacks in the league and who or what coaches they work with in the off-season?


Thanks in advance.

During OTAs in Baker's rookie season it was reported that he was terrible under center...awful. By the time training camp rolled around, he had improved tremendously...it was never spoken-of again. He demonstrated that he is capable of improving on his own. He likely did similarly throughout his walk-on statuses.

I don't see what would be bad about working with a guru, but I'm an accountant and not a NFL QB.

FWIW, you hit the nail on the head with the bolded part above. I'd be willing to bet that Baker's biggest critics on this board are butt-hurt Buckeye fans who still can't get over him beating the Bucks and the flag planting fail.

I put into quotation marks what his comments were. The rest is 100% true as well. It's only misleading to someone who doesn't understand how to read.

I already gave examples of many with links to back it up. Not going through it again.

You believe whatever you want. Stefanski has been a position coach since 2006. Assistant QB Coach, Tight Ends Coach, QB Coach, and finally OC last year. He also spent one year at Penn State as an Assistant Director of Football.

Do you realize Kitchens is more experienced than him? Kitchens started in 1999, and came up under guys like Bill Parcells, Ken Wisenhunt, and Bruce Arians...two of those coaches have been too or won Super Bowls.

Why in God's name would you fire Kitchens and then replace him with an EVEN MORE inexperienced guy like Stefanski?

That makes no sense at all, i'd rather have kept Kitchens then hire this guy.

This guy is NOT an NFL Head Coach...maybe a few years down the road he will be, but not right now...anyone who hires this guy he will crash and burn hard...This guy is another Pat Shurmur..a guy with 2-3 years as a position coach, and one year as OC...he isn't ready...

He would be the absolute worst hire we could make, even worse than a college coach like Meyer...Cleveland will chew this guy up and spit him out quickly, and with how fast the Haslam's pull the trigger on firing guys....if we hire Stepanski...he is a 3-4 year project minimum...you really think the Haslams will give him that long?

Just get Caldwell or Pagano on the phone already and actually interview someone who knows WTH they are doing besides McCarthy and McDaniels...

Here's what you put in your post:

"What he has said is that he doesn't need the same help and guidance as many great NFL QB's at the present time and in the past have used to help them."

That's what you typed. You paraphrased there and either lied to fit your agenda or you wrote that like a child. You can decide.

I think Baker is a hard worker. I'll believe that until I see it reported otherwise.

That said, he's still sounding really arrogant. He should have someone in his ear helping him. I have no doubt that he's critical of his game and will work to improve it, but somebody else looking at the same thing can offer a different perspective. Baker rejects outside help, but not the need to improve. Big difference.

I'm reaching a bit here, but perhaps the things he's looking to work on don't necessarily require more outside help. Baker is still a wet lump of clay. Brady is largely a finished product that has to put in much more effort to improve than a 2nd year guy.


If Baker commits only to improving just his pre and post snap reads in this offseason (and does it), that will be sufficient improvement for me heading into next season.

Here's a sample to throw you a bone.

When you say you don't need to work with the same people other great NFL QB's have worked with, that's the jest of what you're saying. You do understand what quotation marks are don't you?

Enough of your BS. I'm done with you.

Kitchen had never been an offensive coordinator, had never been the guy in charge, until he was moved into an interim position when Haley was fired. He has never had an offense, or an offensive philosophy that was "his". Stefanski has.

The point is you can't.

Baker is also going to work on his technique in the off-season. Heaven forbid you don't like how he's going about it...

You obviously overlooked my last post where I did just that.

But good job of trying to make excuses for your boy.

I'll make it simple for you by re-posting it here.



He worked on it during the last off season by refusing to do it the same way other QB's have done it too. How did that work out for him and us?

It drives me crazy when I read things like so and so needs to work with so and so in order to improve his craft or he's stupid and doesn't get it...

You have no idea what he needs to do.


Let me ask you, are there quarterbacks in the league that work with "such people" that still suck? Or does working with "such people" automatically make you a great quarterback? Can I go work with House and become a great NFL quarterback?

Agree, in this biz longevity like that is pretty rare. DePo liked last year and I doubt he lost any credibility to him since last year.

Probably not with your arm...

He did not say what you claimed. Period. You should change your user name to Adam Schiff. Talk about BS. These are YOUR words...yet you claim them to be Baker's:

What he has said is that he doesn't need the same help and guidance as many great NFL QB's at the present time and in the past have used to help them.

He did NOT say that.

now that the Giants are hiring Judge to be their HC...

I expect McDaniels to drop out as a candidate.

I know enough from watching over the years that Bakers mechanics weren't the best this past season. But I admit I do't know the minutae as much as you other Dawgs.

Baker says he doesn't need someone to teach him a 3 step drop. For those who are capable of assessing such a thing, how was his 3 step drop this year?

He may or may not need an offseason coach. I don't know. But here's the part that I found a tad disconcerting about his tone Eo... saying he's not going to seek that off season help because he doesn't need anyone to teach him a 3 step drop sounds like he's minimizing what such a thing actually offers. It has the same flavor of Freddie's comments about "not teaching penalties".

Like, no kidding. The issues were much larger than what they were trying to present them as.

In the end, I like Baker and I think he has the ability and opportunity to be what we've been waiting for. I love the swagger and confidence we got out of him in his rookie campaign and I hope we get to see that again. But I also think that unless he is subjected to a coach or mentor who can instill a sense of discipline and show him what professionalism truly is, he stands a greater chance of being another QB ruined in Cleveland.

For me it boils down to this - we love the confidence when things are going well. 'We' question everything and call him arrogant when things are bad and that same Type A personality type snaps back at media questions that are designed to make him react .... wasn't it a Tony Grossi loaded question that made he make that statement that is being used by people who don't like Baker to indicate what a lazy/arrogant/ignorant/bad QB he is that won't get better or take instruction?? ....

I think he's got the talent, he's got the work ethic, I think he has the motivation and has been humbled/humiliated this year ... but he doesn't say all the things some folks want to hear. Depending on the offensive scheme and what happens in the off season with the F.O. - I believe we will see a Baker performance that's closer to year 1 than year 2 next year. And what he says in interviews or elsewhere won't change that opinion - it will only be his performance on Sundays that will change that. If he's closer to this year's Baker next year - then he will be out of a job, or out of a starting job and be a back up.

I completely get what you are saying. But for me there's a difference between getting on the podium and saying "I woke up feeling dangerous" and minimizing what an off season QB coach can bring to the table. Now in the age of Donald Trump, I usually don't care so much about style points when people speak to or in front of the media, so I'm not going to take his 3 step drop comment as a "tell all" when it comes to Bakers personality and work ethic. But like I mentioned earlier, for me that kind of comment has that Freddie flavor and THAT is where my concern about Baker, or more accurately for Baker comes from.

I have zero doubt about Bakers effort. I have zero doubt about his work ethic. I don't blame him for spending a couple days filming commercials, for getting married and all that. He only did what most other new NFL players do.

But Baker isn't a walk on anymore. He doesn't have to do it by himself anymore. I think his biggest nightmare would be to become a journeyman QB. Baker is like some of the younger officers I've trained: no doubt about their ability, their effort, their desire... but if you don't aim them in the right direction it becomes a waste. Right now I don't see anyone who's getting Baker aimed in the right direction. Hopefully that is resolved here with the new HC.

I wish Baker could spend a week studying and watching game film with Kosar. He could learn a hell of a lot about how to read a defense both pre, and post snap.

Thats fine, you think whatever you want.

I believe Stepanski IS the guy they are going to hire because Haslam always ***** things up. The Vikings are a middle of the pack O this year ranked 16th overall and 23rd passing, but hey he is the next up and coming coordinator right?

He won't last 3 years here, he will be lucky to even last two.

I expect McDaniels will flatout refuse barring a contract similar to what Gruden got with the Raiders (100 million over 10 years guaranteed even if he is fired)

Stepanski will be the only guy willing to even take the job with this ownership and he will flame out HARD...midseason it will become apparent the guy has no clue.

If your going to hire Stepanski, then you better pair him with a strong expereinced guy like Wade Phillips to even have an inkling of a chance it works out.

But what are his leadership qualities? I keep hearing that. Is he running the offense or leading Cleveland Browns.

yes, nothing say continuity and keeping a coach around like hiring a 75 year old HC. . . . .

Look, I apologize for being so flippant about guys like Stepanski.

However, I am FURIOUS that qualified guys are NOT being interviewed.

Jim Caldwell has a 60-52 Reg Season record as a head coach, has 6 playoff appearences, and has taken two different teams(Colts & Lions) to the playoffs.

Chuck Pagano has 53-43 Reg season record as a head coach with 6 playoff appearances, has advanced as far as the AFC Title game, and has a .500 record in the postseason.

BOTH of these guys are more qualified then ANYONE we have interviewed except McCarthy.

This tells me Haslam is NOT serious about winning, if he was, he would be hiring the most qualified people. Out of all the people available going by experience and track record, the only people available this year that were ahead of Pagano and Caldwell were Rivera and McCarthy.

Browns fans deserve better than this, we deserve a shot at a coach that knows what he is doing and knows how to win, and Haslam is short changing all of us by not even interviewing candidates that are far more qualified than anyone outside of McCarthy they have interviewed so far.

I could "maybe" accept McDaniels, but the rest of these guys are just more of the same. There is no reason we shouldn't be brining in Pagano and Caldwell for interviews, those guys have proven track records and can fix this mess, the lockeroom will respect these guys day one, they are well liked around the league.

It makes no sense at all they are not being interviewed unless Haslam simply doesn't want to win.

Jim Caldwell has health issues, you have no idea if he even WANTS to be interviewed.

Pagano runs a complete different defense, and we would have to completely turn our player roster over again for him. That's not going to happen.

There are "reasons" guys like Caldwell and Pagano are not on the short list

but … I do think there is some hubris from leadership in Cleveland

I do think a part of Jimmy wants to be able to say HE found that diamond, HE was able to recognize a talented up and comer …

/ I am more than happy with Josh
// Cautiously optimistic about Stepanski
/// Big Kudos to Jerry Jones recognizing he didn't need to be the biggest voice in the locker-room

Fair enough.

I will say "If" we are going to go down the coordinator route. Then to me my top guy is Eric Bieniemy. The guy is a former player and a coach. He started coaching at Colorado back in 2001. He had 4 years with the Vikings as RB Coach, and has been in KC with Reid since 2013.

Look at the Andy Reid coaching tree:

Brad Childress
John Harbaugh
Ron Rivera
Todd Bowles
Doug Peterson
Sean McDermont
Matt Nagy

Now thats a pretty impressive. Coaches from the Andy Reid coaching tree seem to be successful elsewhere. Reid is like a mentor and he teaches these guys well. I like Bieniemy because he knows the NFL both as a player and a coach and he has been taught by a great one in Andy Reid.

I'd actually be very happy if we hired Bieniemy, and he is the only coordinator candidate i'd even consider.

It's funny how I've shown you that almost every NFL QB, even some of the greats have followed this path, but of course you stand by the fact that Baker doesn't need to do the same. I would think as a Browns fan you would want Baker to take every possible measure to make improvements in any way he can. But when you place Baker above the team, we can see the type of responses you give as excuses.

Not only did Baker say he didn't need it, he pretty much mocked the very process that most NFL QB's use to help improve themselves. We saw what happened over the past off season when he did things "Baker's way". So you just keep sticking up for him.

First you acted like it wasn't a common thing for QB's to go through this process. Then after giving you the evidence that it is, it still isn't enough for you.

It's why there are certain people on this board I don't bother with taking the time to discuss things with. You can give them all of the evidence in the world and it doesn't make any difference to them. If you actually looked at Baker from the second half of the 2018 season to how he played in the 2019 season, it would be painfully obvious to you that Baker is the last person you would listen to on what Baker needs to do.

Does it automatically make you a great QB? No, but it's helped a lot of QB's get better. So let's see.... Since it's not a guarantee of great success, Baker shouldn't do it? And you expect anyone to take you seriously?

And last year when asked about working with an off season coach he called them "broom sweepers". Mocking the very process most QB's use as a tool to improve isn't a good sign coming from someone who could certainly use help.

The whole article is worth reading:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...87-f34d1c93fc22

I mean, does this sound a little crazy. I don't think it's a secret that Josh was the Broncos HC... I also think it's safe to say that everyone knows his boss was John Elway..

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/gm-report/why-mcdaniels-actually-ditched-colts

These seem like things he should have thought about before he accepted the job.