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I agree. Vernon was a waste.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm not sure about that., Doesn't he use the 3-4 and might that not need to have Vernon and Garrett switch to LB's? No. Also, I won't be surprised if Vernon is released. $15.5M in cap savings and $0 dead cap. The guy has now been injured three years in a row. I expect him to be the first to go. Why does cap room have anything to do with it? ... Do we have a cap problem I’m not aware of ... Vernon did a much better job than about 98% of the posters give him credit for ... The injuries are a concern ... performance vs cap # would be a much bigger factor if we needed the cap space but i do not believe we need to free any up ... IF we want to win next year ... unless we bring in someone with his ability no way should he be cut ...
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I agree. Vernon was a waste. I don't mind the move, but yeah... it didn't work out. Vernon was coming on just as he got injured. Wasn't the original trade him for Zeitler straight up? That's not so good.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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No, we don't have a cap issue at the moment, I would just rather use that money pay someone else...maybe Hunt?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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articles posted that his D is based on a 4-3 over or under. it's a 4-3 base just that one of the DE's is standing up. Add to that the argument about how often D's are in their base formation .... I'd love an experienced and credible guy that could manage one side of the ball by himself ... Well, then I'm glad I'm wrong....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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You and me and a few on the board all thought it was a 3-4 system.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I'm not sure about that., Doesn't he use the 3-4 and might that not need to have Vernon and Garrett switch to LB's? No. Also, I won't be surprised if Vernon is released. $15.5M in cap savings and $0 dead cap. The guy has now been injured three years in a row. I expect him to be the first to go. Hubbard Carrie Kirksey Harris
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I'm not sure about that., Doesn't he use the 3-4 and might that not need to have Vernon and Garrett switch to LB's? No. Also, I won't be surprised if Vernon is released. $15.5M in cap savings and $0 dead cap. The guy has now been injured three years in a row. I expect him to be the first to go. Why does cap room have anything to do with it? ... Do we have a cap problem I’m not aware of ... Vernon did a much better job than about 98% of the posters give him credit for ... The injuries are a concern ... performance vs cap # would be a much bigger factor if we needed the cap space but i do not believe we need to free any up ... IF we want to win next year ... unless we bring in someone with his ability no way should he be cut ... Vernon played like crap until about the game before he got hurt. Even the announcer at the time had said something to the effect off "man, that's tough, as he was just starting to play decent" He had 3 sacks in 10 games playing opposite of Myles Garrett. That's not good. Especially for a guy making 15 million a year. I don't care how much cap space you have 1 million or 50 million, you cant pay guys that are not performing. sooner or later it will catch up to you.
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I'm not sure about that., Doesn't he use the 3-4 and might that not need to have Vernon and Garrett switch to LB's? No. Also, I won't be surprised if Vernon is released. $15.5M in cap savings and $0 dead cap. The guy has now been injured three years in a row. I expect him to be the first to go. Hubbard Carrie Kirksey Harris Those would be 1b, c, d, e if I had to guess. with Randall as F.
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I'm not sure about that., Doesn't he use the 3-4 and might that not need to have Vernon and Garrett switch to LB's? No. Also, I won't be surprised if Vernon is released. $15.5M in cap savings and $0 dead cap. The guy has now been injured three years in a row. I expect him to be the first to go. Hubbard Carrie Kirksey Harris There could be a lot of changes (whether outright cuts or restructurings) as a result of these stupid contracts we took on. I do think Kirksey's status might change now that Dorsey is gone and who knows what is going to happen now that Schobert wasn't extended last season.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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There could be a lot of changes (whether outright cuts or restructurings) as a result of these stupid contracts we took on. I do think Kirksey's status might change now that Dorsey is gone and who knows what is going to happen now that Schobert wasn't extended last season. Very true. I don't think Kirksey stays though. too many injuries, not enough production for his contract. JMO
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[/quote]Those would be 1b, c, d, e if I had to guess. with Randall as F. Randall is an unrestricted free agent.
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I do think Kirksey's status might change now that Dorsey is gone and who knows what is going to happen now that Schobert wasn't extended last season. Kirksey could ceratinly be a guy they try and get to restructure his deal.
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Those would be 1b, c, d, e if I had to guess. with Randall as F. Randall is an unrestricted free agent. [/quote]understood, I don't see the team trying to resign him. hence, he would be let go.
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I do think Kirksey's status might change now that Dorsey is gone and who knows what is going to happen now that Schobert wasn't extended last season. Kirksey could ceratinly be a guy they try and get to restructure his deal. I would tend to agree...Its odd, despite being on IR basically all year (again) This guy (Kirksey) was still a leader for us (was a captain multiple times, leading players out of the tunnels, and I noticed he seemed to be around our coaches often as well) Anyways, providing he takes a huge pay cut, I would keep him...However I think its likely he"ll be released, Another regime change at helm...and another year on IR, factored with a near $10.5 cap number...doesn't look good. Shame at one point he was probably our best backer, past two years have been injury ridden for him (and he not look at the start of 2018 season as well, I know he was injured as well...then was shelved later) His energy and leadership will be missed. Carrie...Simply is just way over paid...However I think he is a solid corner to have. He is however a little underrated on the board, as he was the one to make the position change and play both FS and SS while being a corner his entire career (not an easy adjustment) But probably a cut as well. Hubbard...easiest cut, turn-stile RT...the day he inked his deal, I was noted to saying he shined as sub swing guy for Pitt and mainly at RG...Did pretty horrible as our RT the past two years while being paid handsomely. Vernon...I grew up a U guy, and thought this guy fell off after leaving the Dolphins. He always has an attitude problem, and it showed itself in NY. So who knows what went down this year with him. Thought he would turn his career around playing opposite Myles...Unfortunately guy gets over powered too easily once hands are on him. Though not for certain, I know he isn't worth 15 mill.
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise.
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise. Correct. And the same thing would be applicable to someone like Hubbard as well. However, I think the priority would be to identify someone at RT and, perhaps, DE would also something to look at either in FA or the draft.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise. Correct. And the same thing would be applicable to someone like Hubbard as well. However, I think the priority would be to identify someone at RT and, perhaps, DE would also something to look at either in FA or the draft. Hubbard is worse than replacement level. Replacing him should not be hard. Vernon is a quality player.
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We have too much invested in Vernon to just release him. Get him healthy and see if he can regain the form that made you want him in the first place.
I see Hubbard as a backup / John Greco type of OL. He's versatile, and played a utility OL role with the Steelers. I don't think he's starter-quality at RT. Maybe RG?
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise. I didn't say to cut him, only noted he wasn't worth 15 mill a year.
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If we can't bring in people to bump Hubbard off the starting 5, then the person(s) running or draft/FA should be fired. I'm exaggerating, but still.
Vernon has talent, at least. I'd look for savings/cuts elsewhere before we have tough talks with him. Give him another year to try to prove his worth. We're not in any sort of danger regarding the cap, and there are others have had the time and are more dispensable.
Randall is the guy I want to keep. Here has talent and there's nobody in the same zip code, in terms of talent, that can step into his spot. We have him and a bunch of SSs.
Kirksey, I'm torn. He's not worth his contract, but we're already thin at LB. We'd be making an already weak unit weaker.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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We'd be making an already weak unit weaker. It would be no weaker than it already is. A guy that isn't on the field isn't making the unit stronger. Just saying... Overall, with Dorsey out, I think we have a shot at retaining a lot of the talent coming up for new contracts while fixing some of his egregious mistakes (Hubbard).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise. Chad Thomas played about as well as he did, and there is an entire FA and draft. Its not hard to replace 3.5 sacks, especially when you have 15 million to do so with 
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise. Correct. And the same thing would be applicable to someone like Hubbard as well. However, I think the priority would be to identify someone at RT and, perhaps, DE would also something to look at either in FA or the draft. Hubbard is a backup getting starter money. There a lot of backups on the team and in FA. WE need to be looking for a starter quality RT.
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We'd be making an already weak unit weaker. It would be no weaker than it already is. A guy that isn't on the field isn't making the unit stronger. Just saying... Overall, with Dorsey out, I think we have a shot at retaining a lot of the talent coming up for new contracts while fixing some of his egregious mistakes (Hubbard). 100% agree with this. I hope we talk finally with schobert, cut Hubbard. I don't thin Vernon is that good, but wont be upset if we keep him to see if he can stay healthy and turn it around.
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Is there an express lane of some sort for Hubbard? Kirksey has been a part-time guy. We need some youngboods at LB perhaps. What can we salvage from Wilkes? We just need to be badder at the LOS with the run and getting pressure. Some folks not named 'Myles' need to be effective. Vanilla Crunch.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I actually think Hubbard is pretty decent... at RG. Unfortunately we have been playing him at RT where he is horrible.
Depending upon his salary cap number, i wouldn't hate it if we brought in a new RT and moved Hubbard inside.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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I would love it if we brought someone in at LT that would force Robinson to compete for (and win) the RT spot. One acquisition improving up to 3 spots
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Hmmm... I wonder what that's all about, and does Stefanski have any sort of working relationship with this guy?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Hmmm... I wonder what that's all about, and does Stefanski have any sort of working relationship with this guy? Don't know, but he worked wonders on their defense - even with losing a guy like K. Mack. Might be worth exploring for KS. ill add, a think I liked about him, he SOUNDS like he is open to anyone and not just people he is familiar with #goodoleboysclub
Last edited by willitevachange; 01/14/20 04:13 PM.
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Hmmm... I wonder what that's all about, and does Stefanski have any sort of working relationship with this guy? Don't know, but he worked wonders on their defense - even with losing a guy like K. Mack. Might be worth exploring for KS. ill add, a think I liked about him, he SOUNDS like he is open to anyone and not just people he is familiar with #goodoleboysclub well, I guess part of the question is "DID he really work wonders?".. how much of that improvement is him and how much is changes in scheme or whatever. I find it hard to believe that just changing DLine coach accounts for that much of an impact. Actually, it defies belief.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It all depends. If he gets the DC job here it will all be to his credit. If he gets overlooked for the job people will agree with you that it defies belief.
Details at 11:00.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hmmm... I wonder what that's all about, and does Stefanski have any sort of working relationship with this guy? Don't know, but he worked wonders on their defense - even with losing a guy like K. Mack. Might be worth exploring for KS. ill add, a think I liked about him, he SOUNDS like he is open to anyone and not just people he is familiar with #goodoleboysclub well, I guess part of the question is "DID he really work wonders?".. how much of that improvement is him and how much is changes in scheme or whatever. I find it hard to believe that just changing DLine coach accounts for that much of an impact. Actually, it defies belief. I would suspect it has a big change in the way the D stops the run. Which is what we need here drastically. We have good players, that were poorly coached if you ask me.
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I do think Kirksey's status might change now that Dorsey is gone and who knows what is going to happen now that Schobert wasn't extended last season. Kirksey could ceratinly be a guy they try and get to restructure his deal. Why? 2018: 7 games played 2019: 2 games played I don't believe that he is an impact player. He is a decent enough leader, but it's hard to lead, as a player, from the sidelines.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I do think Kirksey's status might change now that Dorsey is gone and who knows what is going to happen now that Schobert wasn't extended last season. Kirksey could ceratinly be a guy they try and get to restructure his deal. Why? 2018: 7 games played 2019: 2 games played I don't believe that he is an impact player. He is a decent enough leader, but it's hard to lead, as a player, from the sidelines. Schobert YES Kirksey NO ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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If we pass on Wade Phillips for an unknown at DC, that would be pure idiocy.
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I want Schobert here, and get him some solid proven help not named Kirksey, maybe Avery.
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I like Joe Schobert, but he's a tweener. His football intelligence is very high, and he makes a good MLB with his ability to read the offense and make on-field adjustments. But he lacks elite speed and impact. He's good hash to hash but only fair sideline to sideline, and his tackles often end up 2-3 yards past the point of impact. I'm all for keeping him, but not at elite MLB pay.
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Who replaces Vernon? Cutting guys that don't have replacements doesn't seem wise. Chad Thomas played about as well as he did, and there is an entire FA and draft. Its not hard to replace 3.5 sacks, especially when you have 15 million to do so with Sacks is all that matters ... thanks cause i thought there was more to it than that ... 
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