DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Organizational Structure

Welcome to the board! Thank you for the response.

I appreciate your opinion on the topic, and I agree in theory it sounds great, that all three are on the same page. And if we win it wont be an issue.

The problem with this structure that is see, is if we struggle. Do you feel, if we struggle and say go 0-4 and Haslam pulls the new GM aside and says "whats going on", do you think hes going to say "well Jim, I stink at drafting and signing free agent - and I haven't given Kevin the pieces he needs. Depo is giving us this great info, and we just cant see to do the right thing?"

Or do you think hes going to say "well jim, the information we are receiving from Depo has not panned out the way we feel it should, and KS is not developing the talented players we have drafted and signed, and the scheme is not putting them in a place to succeed?"

My isuse is that this structure is setup to fail when the going gets tough and losses start to mount. We all know what happens when losses start to mount. Jimmy gets mad. When Jimmy gets mad, people lose jobs.

You still haven't made any sense bro. On game day it all comes down to what Stefanski and his crew do. The data guy on the headset? All he's doing on Game Day is looking for trends to exploit (or trends we need to fix). Why is that so scary? EVERYONE OF US does that! Most of us screamed this past year "We need to run Chubb more!" Guess what? That's barebones, its unrefined, but its poor man, lay man's analytics! When we say X RB needs so many carries before he gets "warmed up", we've identified a trend. Our recommendation is to run the dude.


I really don't understand the freak out.

Jimmy sitting in a meeting on Monday? So what? I'd agree he shouldn't be interjecting with what he thinks should be run or who should be played. But if all he's doing is asking questions and providing that level of accountability? Sounds to me like he's learning.

It's about time he finally settles and trusts what he hired DePo to do. We keep being critical of Jimmy for being involved, but twice now he's attempted to step back and trust other "football" people to run things and it failed. Recently with Dorsey, but right from the jump with Lombardi/Banner.

See, I don't think Jimmy wants to be the one making these types of decisions. But what is the guy supposed to do when the "best" people keep failing him?

I think everyone that's seen the Haslam's as owners is going to be concerned that the wheels are going to fall of and that no matter what the plan is or what's said in public - that behind the sceenes there will be knee jerk reactions and interference from a guy who basically knows nothing about football. That's what we have seen so far.

That said - I understand Chud being let go. Haslam ruined the Farmer/Pettine set up himself. Hue had to be let go. Freddie had to be let go. . . . so while it's been a train wreck - at least with Dorsey we saw Haslam step completely away from football decisions and let Dorsey do what he wanted ... that was improvement. Unfortunately JD tied his wagon to Freddie who was almost impossible to believe but worse than Hue.

I'm choosing to wait and see, even if I have fairly low expectations ... I wanted JD to stay. Stefanski was about 5th on my list. So this isn't what I want and I am not blindly saying to trust the Haslams. But when I see people twisting so many things about KS and Depo and the structure.... I'm tired of the over reaction and want to provide a different perspective.

I said, McDaniels has had 10 years to evaluate himself and learn. He has not been given an opportunity yet to show if he has learned, and think he deserves that opportunity. That is all.

Your completely ignoring the fact that Jimmy has had how many years to learn form his mistake, and is not doing so though. How has Jimmy improved as owner since he has taken over? Please give one example? The most recent statistic we have on this, is that he went from 7-8-1 in 18 to 6-10 in 19. Is that improving as an owner? Your point would offer even a little merit if we didn't have VERY recent results to conflict it. He has tried this not once, but twice before. IF he was learning, he wouldn't try it again.

No one said it didn't. But because you can learn and market how to sell fuel, doesn't mean you can learn to run an NFL franchise. One does not equate the other. Being a billionaire doesn't automatically make you able to do it. You keep pointing to Pilot as a success completeing ignoring that is has 0 bearing on being a success in any other aspect outside of the pilot flying j business.

You also are forgetting that to part of becoming that success, included Jimmy cheating and stealing for people, lying and breaking the law.

It’s human nature to pass the buck, absolutely. But when, in the past 20 years, have we ever truly been on the same page? This is honestly the closest I think I’ve seen. I doubt Haslam won’t meddle, but with DePo happy, it could lessen the overwhelming desire to micromanage. Haslam is friggin a poor mans Jerry Jones.

All I want is for Stephanski to be the next McVey, Tomlin, etc. Not another Kitchens.

I was the biggest voice against Hue on this board.

I wanted Freddie fired as well.

I don't understand Chud being let go. that was a mistake. As well as firing Pettine and shanny.

I give Haslam credit, he will try to correct his mistakes. But a good owner should have learned by now, that he keeps making these mistakes and over and over, he needs to let someone else make that decision then. That's learning. Understanding the process he is using right now has failed twice before, has not worked. That's learning.

You see, Jimmy is an egomaniac. to an extent, all billionaires are. Its all they have left to accomplish really. Being the best at what they do. But his ego wont let him understand, that hes not good at this part. IF he wants to be best, instead of doing it himself, all he simply needs to do is look at the teams that do it well, and mimic that.

The NFL is SETUP for teams to have parady. Its setup for teams to get better. It literally is not as hard as one would think. To be as bad as Jimmy has - there is absolutely 0 excuse other than Jimmy.

We have been on the same page, until we start losing. Then Jimmy fires everyone and says - "those guys were not on the same page".

The issue is not those guys being on different pages, the issue is that Jimmy pits them against each other.

I actually don't want everyone on the same page. I want different opinions. I want people challenging others. But we need someone that knows what they are doing to take all those challenges and different opinions and then make a decision. THATS the issue I have. We have 3 guys giving the same decision, that are going to throw each other under the bus as soon as the tough gets going. THEN, Jimmy has to decide who was the problem. He cant, because the structure is the problem, so he just fires everyone. lol

But what structure IS setup for success when the the going gets tough and the losses start to mount?

Let's say we go with a traditional football FO: The GM hires the HC, even has his own preferences what schemes we run.

Don't those guys have to be in sync philosophically as well? When the going gets tough, how do you decide who's at fault?

BTW, if Freddie was receiving plays from the data guys... was it because he was forced to? Or were they trying to prop up the guy with the limited game plan????

Thank you for the response.

In those structures, you have the GM typically as the head of the team, with the HC under him.

Then you have the owner who decides where the blame is.

For instance, in Carolina. They have talent. They have good players, the owner felt that the coach was the issue, and fired him.

Lets then look at Tampa, last year. They had good players, and they fired the coach and brought in Ariens. You instantly saw a turn around. Wasnt the GM failing, it was the previously coaching staff.

Now, look at us. Lets take a look at Pettine. We know, with Hindsight - that Pettine did a pretty dang good job with little talent. He should have been kept and a new GM brought in.

Green Bay. The issue wasn't the GM, it was MM going stale to the players. They replaced that coach, and are playing in what game?

Different structures can work - HC reports to GM, GM reports to HC, etc. But the in the structures that work, all have 1 leader and 1 person that makes the final decisions so that YOU KNOW where the success or failures are at.

As far as Freddie with the plays and the guys in his ear - that was just what I heard, I don't know if that was true or not. But we do know that there was a BIG disconnect after our scripted plays. Was Freddie gong against the data guys, or was Freddie listening to the data guys and that was causing the issue. We don't know, and probably never will. I don't think having the numbers of or percentages of how successful a play has been is bad. I like that. My problem is that should be presented BEFORE a game, not during. But that's JMO, I am not saying its right or wrong. I can just see issues with it taking up valuable time. We saw not having a time being an issue last year.

You clearly are uninformed and don't understand. That isn't what that person will do. There are a few article posted on this board that you need to read if you want to be informed rather than just making things up.

I see your points.

I still feel like you may be giving too much credit or weight to the data guys though.

Let's take the Freddie rumor for example. Even if not true, I think it makes for a good hypothetical. If the data guy calls down and says "Freddie! Hold on a sec, the Bat Computer is still spitting out the punch card... ok there it is! Run this EXACT play".. then I agree with you that isn't a recipe for success and would be data over reaching.

But...

What if the data guy simply says "Freddie... the trends suggest that the would be succeptible to a deep shot, maybe over the middle"... then Freddie is left to pick from his "Deep Shot" plays... I don't think that's a bad role for the data guy to play. The problem in that scenario is the HC/OC who is not intimately familiar enough with a) his own playbook and b) able to recognize that opportunity to begin with.

My sense of it is, that DePo's biggest contribution is going to be in that early week planning. Turning in the game plan on Friday gives them an opportunity to input THAT data and make a comparison AFTER the game. The more familiar with his playbook and experiences our play caller is, the less input that data guy in the booth will have to contribute. Then it might be the play caller recognizes the deep shot opportunity, and the data guy points out the left side CB has been biting on the play action more often than not.

I get the concern over the 3 Headed Stooge set up. But if you look at it, each one will take the lead at different points in the year. In the off season the GM will be looking at acquiring talent, with input from the data guys... the GM and HC will be determining scheme and philosophy... and the HC and Data will be putting the game plans together.

ASSUMING Jimmy isn't dictating in the weekly meetings, his presence during the process should give him a better idea of where god forbid the weak link is should the season crap out.

I agree, that is exactly how it should work - or what they are attempting to build and process for it to work.

I just don't see Jimmy letting it happen that way. Not a single thing has shown he will allow it function - as his personality as it has been reported is to whisper in ears, get guys to come to him, and then turn them against each other.

Jimmy is not good at picking the right people. We have seen that in his picks in the NFL, and his picks in Flying J. WE can all say he's a great business man in that aspect of his life, but he picked bad people to run it - there are 90+ million stats to back that up.

There is absolutely nothing we can do about - and all we can do is hope for the best. But nothing says he has learned and nothing says this will be different than the last few times. JMO

Browns organizational structure is a mess. For instance, the new GM is going to have to work with a HC he didn't hire. How is that going to work out? Mind as well make Depo the new GM. He seems to be the one making all the decisions.

Data will also help with making adjustments, half time and in game. It can also signal what changes the other team has made.

If that is what you derived from my comments, then we have a simple communication problem. Haslam is very good at what he does do and not very good at what he doesn't do. For everyone that seems so intent on dismissing my comments let's look at the evidence rather than bluster.

What he has done;

As of this year the uniforms will have been changed yet once again. The NFL rules dictate you can only change the uniforms once every five years. It will have been five years since the last uniform change. Fans get excited and look forward to the new uniforms. All you have to do is look at the threads on the board regarding the uniforms to see that.

"The fan experience"



Now both of these things aren't what I consider to be bad things. In the case of the fan experience it takes a lot of investment and is designed to make your experience at the stadium better for all fans.

But these are marketing. They are ideas to help draw fans to the stadium and build excitement among the fan base. This is something he is very good at.

What he hasn't done;

Managed to put a quality football team on the field since purchasing the team in 2012.

So people can sit here and carry on with excuses, their own validation for feeling the way they do, but the facts are as they are presented here.

Pilot Flying J is nothing but a great success story. If I have given people any reason to think I feel otherwise that was certainly not my intent. My intent is only to show that it takes an entirely different skill set to build an NFL franchise.

Thus far, going into his eighth year as owner, he hasn't shown that skill set.

Making things up....no, it has been reported, and they were talking about it on the radio yesterday - which I posted.



I stated I do not know if they are just saying "hey theres a 30% chance this play works" or if they are saying, don't run that, its not going to be successful" etc. IDK where you think I was "making something up".

The only thing being made up is the fact you said "that isn't what that person will do". That is made up, because you do not know what they will be doing in the headset, because it is not known. So you cannot deny or confirm either way.

WE do know someone will be in the headset. That we know.

What they are saying, or the input they are having we do not know.

I find it funny you say I am "misinformed" then put out a statement that cannot be confirmed as a fact. That sir, is being misinformed.

Once again, NOBODY has said that.

I agree with just about all you said except this:



It is in fact, a great success to the Haslams and their family. I don't think the people they stole millions off of would consider it that though. That's a different topic, however it does tie in to my argument that Haslam is not good at hiring people or setting up structures. If he was, he would have known what was going on in those regards.

That would be under the assumption that we have been totally ignoring the data to this point. Do you actually believe that since DePodesta was hired in Jan. of 2016, Haslam has been paying a guy "not to use" the skill set he hired him for?

We do know that Depodesta didn't get the HC he felt was right for the job last year. But I feel it would be a rather far fetched notion to believe that Haslam would keep what many feel is a top analytics guy on the payroll and simply ignore the talent he's being paid for.

The huge turnover in employees at Pilot flying J is well documented. On that we agree.

What I feel is beyond debate is that Pilot Flying J was a huge business success well before any of the "cheating on fuel rewards" ever started.

J/C

She went on to say she feels that player would have said the same thing last year as well.

It's an opponent/rival.

read the tweet after I posted. They believe it was Mr. Roman, not a player.

No, Daryl is speculating that is was Roman. Did you listen to the interview?

What part of "they believe it was greg roman" did you mistake me for saying it was in fact Greg Roman. I literally just posted that Daryl THINKS it was Roman. Sheesh.

They is plural.

Daryl is singular.

Your wrong again, but nice try.

"They" can certainly be used in the singular form.

https://medium.com/@bronnwyn/yes-they-can-be-used-as-a- Link to They

You are implying multiple people. Nice try.

Heres a link to the AP allowing "THEY" be used in the singular, for more reference.

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editin...-limited-cases/

Right.

You meant Daryl as they. Not to imply multiple people think it was Roman to come across as a more credible assumption.

Got it.

I'd go listed to the interview. That part and more is rather interesting.

Really, so know you know I am implying multiple people, when I QUOTED a tweet form a SINGULAR person, and described him as "they".

Sorry bud, you are trying to save yourself here. You then said they was plural to refute me, its not. You were wrong twice.

Take this L

No, it's that you have to go backtracking and are now going this route. So be it.

I listened. The Dangerous One is attempting to draw conclusions to make the Browns look foolish.

Daryl has been jerked since Dorsey was fired and has been upset about all things DePo related since.

He's become a younger version of Tony Grossi, disgruntled fan with a platform and press pass.

I do like Daryl more than Grossi, to be clear.

You're right. They is better than Grossi.

Let's just start beating the hell out of everyone and one by one all these goofy people will shut up...

On the field that is...

Just curios. Since Haslam bought this team in 2012, since when has somebody had to draw conclusions to make the Browns look foolish? Hasn't that been a self inflicted wound?

Precisely. That's exactly why Daryl shouldn't feel the need to speculate in an attempt to make the Browns look foolish. Just let it play out. Either it succeeds or it fails.

The part when you started talking about getting plays in slower and jibber jabbering in the coaches ear.

The play caller might not even be hooked in to that conversation. Possibly just someone else who can give the coach a heads up. Not only that, my feeling is that input will happen when we are on D. I don't see Depos person saying, no, don't call that! LOL

The key is we have a strong D coordinator who Stefanski can just turn it over to them. His only real defensive role will be to send out the punt team or throw red flags. That way he can be with the people in the booth and talk about any adjustments once we get the ball back. That is where analytics can help. Again, it just giving us the best information possible to aid in making the calls that give us the best chance from a statistical standpoint. That doesn't mean coach can't go with his gut and call a shovel pass to Landry.

It's all good man. I just see all types of comments about Depo being in charge, taking over play calling, making the calls in the draft, and that just isn't so.

Depo has one job. To provide his coach and GM the best analytical data possible to possibly aid in making better decisions. That's it. What they do with it is up to them.

It's nothing scary or sinister. It's just one arm of the organization supporting the others.

It's not fool proof. If it was then a computer would call plays and do all the drafting. It can't measure heart and desire. It can't measure technique. That takes boots on the ground scouting...talking to players, talking to coaches, following the kid around to see where he hangs, what his friends look like, talking to the waiters at places he hangs...is he a pretty good guy or is he a Richard?

I don't believe he's been ignoring it. But I do believe he hasn't been disciplined enough to stay in his lane and has periodically tried to short cut the process.