DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Football guys did half the job, now it's up to numbers boys to finish the job...

I would think Stefanski does have a specific vision of what he wishes to implement. It's purely conjecture on my part, but one would think that would be an important part of the interview process. He has commented about the coaches he is impressed by and the systems they run.

My hope is that his plan isn't etched in stone. Having a HC who would be flexible enough to adjust and tweak his scheme to fit your current roster would be a wonderful thing. So my guess is he certainly has a system which he will want to stay very close to with possible variables based on the current roster.

In regards to the OL, we have needs already there. We need upgrades at both OT's positions at a minimum. RG may be workable. Since those upgrades are already needs, there would be no reason at all not to fill those needs with the type of players Stefanski desires to best run his preferred zone blocking scheme.

The Patriots are heavy in analytics, when was the last time they were in tear down mode ? The Vikings use it, they have an analytics hub in their practice facility. Are they in tear down mode ? The Steelers use analytics, they say they try to find an advantage in what they do with it. You have to figure out what the numbers tell you and use it to your advantage. It is not all about tear down for future years.

Of course there will. That happens on every team, every year. Even more when you have a coaching and GM change. But that doesn't mean we are tearing it up and starting over like we did several years ago. We knew we were going to lose games then.

It isn't the same today. I don't think there is any expectation that we are going to be looking at 3-4 wins The process is different now than it was then.

That doesn't mean we won't do some of the same things. We could trade back at #10 depending how the board is shaping up. All of that is still a part of the plan. I am not saying I want to do that, but it could make sense.

It appears Haslas certainly thinks this team is capable of making the playoffs. Others, not so much.

Browns ownership made it clear to candidates throughout the lengthy interviewing process that they believe they have a roster talented enough to do big things in 2020, despite all of the issues of locker room culture that have dogged them for years.

"They think they are really close, seriously," said one person who has intimate knowledge of the search. "They think they are right on the cusp of greatness. I really couldn't believe it."

Another source with direct knowledge of the search said he believed that ownership was "delusional" in terms of the team's actual standing and the breadth of the task at hand, and the repeated inability to stick with a front office structure that has had a modicum of success.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/brown...-year-as-coach/

If last year taught us anything, we had it overhyped. We clearly have holes, but again, I do think we have the talent to win.

With the new coaching staff we will have some growing pains, but we should win 8-9 games .

I think coaching is needed .. I think discipline is needed .. I think a coach that does not think he is the only person who knows anything is needed .. and I think a GM who is willing to say to the coach "Houston, we have a problem .." is needed. if all those issues are solved, then the Browns could win 8 - 10 games. The talent is there, but some tweaks are needed as well. I do not think anyone is delusional in thinking the Browns are close to being ready to be a playoff contender. We just have to wait and see if those things can fall into place.

I think we are saying the same thing your response was just more detailed.

I certainly disagree with anyone thinking we will be in tear down mode.

j/c...

Couple points about that ...

1) The part that the owner is "delusional" about is that the team is ready to take the next step and be playoff competitive right now.

2) The person who made those comments was one of the people who DIDN'T get the job as Head Coach.

3) So, the person who made those comments thinks that we can't compete with roster as it is, (where new team after new team can reach the playoffs every year without major roster reconstruction), and feels we would need a minor to major tear-down and rebuild to get where we're competitive, because the roster we have now was put together poorly. In which case, I'm glad Dorsey is gone ... OR ... the coach can't make due with the roster as currently constructed and would have to bring in a bunch of guys that would "fit" what he wanted to do. In which case, I'm glad he didn't get the job.

The report was also written by La Canfora .. a writer who takes every opportunity he has to rip the Browns. If you noticed the story, there were no attribution to the remarks. I would almost bet his source is McDaniels ... jmho

La Canfora broke a few stories when John Dorsey was in charge. . .

That is certainly one way to look at it. But another way of looking at it is those reporters who "rip the Browns" are more often right than they are wrong.

No one said that he was wrong about the quote, what I was pointing out was that he had an unidentified source, who did not get the job, and La Canfora was using said unidentified source to rip the Browns, and was doing so before Free Agency, before the draft, before staff was hired, and before any trades are made.

Whether a reporter knew anything or not, ripping the Browns over the past 20 years would make anyone sound credible.

One thing to point out is that there is a cost to all of this coaching/front office change. It takes time for a new coaching staff to come in, implement their schemes, coach the players, etc. Changing from a losing culture to a winning one doesn't (usually) happen overnight. More times than not, there's a step back when there's a regime change.

It would be helpful if some of our key players were more invested in offseason training and activities. Though that is not a guarantee that we will have success next year. However, those key players not being invested would be a pretty good bet that it would be another disappointing season. Let's hope they learned from past mistakes and do better this time around.

I think you can rest easy. We aren't looking to rip up the team.

On O, it is easy...we have 2 positions of need. OL and TE. I bunch all the line positions in to one. We need to bring in a OL who can start day 1. Probably a few agent and a top draft pick. Then maybe another FA for veteran depth and another mid/late round rookie. We have several OL players who have been around 2-3 years and they haven't done much. Might be time to filter a few of them out and go with something fresh.

TE...unsettled position. I would look to create some competition there, be it draft or FA.

D needs to be a big focus. We basically need players at every position. JOESHO is up in the air as to his return,. I think we will want him back, but all it takes is one team throwing around silly money and that ruins that.

I don't have faith in the young backer we drafted last year, but another year under the belt might change the outlook, but linebacker is weak.

We also need a run stuffing big guy on the line, someone to replace Vernon, safties, and another corner never hurt anything.

We probably aren't going to get all of that done this off season.

I guess the bigger question would be do fans understand what the term Moneyball means? And will they blame "Moneyball" for every transaction they disagree with?

Some fans, yes. The ones that constantly use the phrase "Moneyball," no.

I think a lot of that will depend on the results. If they win it will be all good. If they lose they'll deserve the same treatment everyone else has gotten.

That too, but I have seen a shift in people from being uneasy to now at least have a better understand now that DePo is more in the light and not some sinister figure stuffed away in some office.

I think most people understand that with a new coach and scheme, some players might not fit, but that would be more of a edict from the football coach than anyone else.

I am looking forward to seeing how we attack FA and the draft ...

Right now we have $52,160,015 to spend, but I see that growing, with possible cuts of Olivia Vernon with a $15,500,000 cap hit, Christian Kirksey $9,950,000, Chris Hubbard $7,268,750, TJ Carrie $8,150,000 Just to name a few ... That alone raises our cap total to an eye-popping $93, 028, 765

I don't think it is that easy. How much dead money would we have to absorb?

Regardless, we can add some good football players this offseason with our cap situation

Not only that, you would have to factor the cost of what it takes to replace the holes you just opened up. Only then would you arrive back at square one with the same holes we currently have.

I agree with you. It's far more complicated than he's making it sound.

LOL....OK, that we can do, but if we cut those guys, the dead money could leave us with less that $52 mil. Maybe a little more. I don't know their contract details.

I'm a little worried about the Cleveland tax. Last year's optimism didn't last long. I don't expect to see many free agents rushing to sign here.

Possibly, but we have been saying that for a decade and still manage to land our fair share of free agent players.

Maybe not the best ones, but we really don't need the best ones. If we can land a few solid guys on each side of the ball would do wonders.

My view of solid is players who could start for maybe a little more than half the teams in the league, maybe even a little more because I have to discount some of the bad teams who have to start whoever they have. The teams they might not start for are teams with a premium player at that position.

I think we've both been from the train of thought that you don't need pro bowlers everywhere to have a great team.

No doubt, plus, you'll never get that.

Cutting Vernon? That's an interesting thought. Vernon was one of our better defenders and he's in the final year of his contract. How do you suggest replacing Vernon and will it really cost less?

https://overthecap.com/calculator/cleveland-browns/

I'm showing 83 million on this website. Not really bad at all. All those contracts gone and only 10 million in dead money.

We'd gain 7.5 million off Kirko. 15.5 million off Vernon. 6.35 million off Carrie. 4.9 million off Hubbard.


Either way, i'd say Kirksey (love him, but he's aging, expensive and not dependable at this point) should go and we ought to take that savings and put it toward Schobert.

And at 15.5 million per year, i'd have to imagine we can find a guy better for us than Vernon. Vernon is good when he plays, but he was injured a lot this year. He was injured a lot for the Giants last year. 10 for us this year. 11 for the Giants last year. 12 for the Giants the year before. Vernon is going into his 9th NFL season. It's hard not to think he isn't starting to break down.

Chris Hubbard was awful this season. He aint worth 4.9 million (including dead money). So you lose him.

Tender Hunt with a 2nd Round Tender. Franchise Joe Schobert and we'd still have about 65 million in cap room to look for a starting tackle and starting DE to put alongside Garrett. (Plus hopefully resign Higgins). That can be accomplished with plenty of money left over to roll into next year for when we have to re-sign guys like Big Larry and Myles Garrett

Arik Armstead if the 49ers cannot figure out a way to keep him which is a real possibility. With Joe Woods set to become our next DC maybe it works out.

Armstead may not cost significantly less, but he’s younger and produces more.

Thanks for the effort on the salaries!

Cutting Vernon doesn't make any sense. He is a valuable player and he only has one year left on his contract. There is not a place where a replacement for Vernon can be found for a similar price.

Our cap room right now: $50,720,894

Vernon has no dead money on his contract, cut him (which we shouldn't do) and save $15.5M.

New cap room: $65,709,894

Kirksey would cost $2.4M in dead money if we cut him and we would save $7.55M.

New cap room: $72,749,894

Hubbard has $2.4M in dead money, we would save $4.9M.

New cap room: $77,139,894

Carrie has $1.8M in dead money, we would save $6.35M.

New cap room: $82,979,894

So it's not $93M plus but it's much more than we have now.

My guess is we end up keeping Vernon (possibly at a reduced price with an small extension) and cut Morgan Burnett, Demetrius Harris, Eric Kush, and Adarius Taylor. If we make those moves we end up with $76,859,894 in cap space. The cap is not a problem.

I'd rework Vernon's contract to give him a fat chunk up front while extending him a few years. His hit for this year would go up, but he'd get more affordable over time.

Then, I'd still seek to sign another beast at DE (since we have no shot at Chase Young).

I mentioned a few posts up Arik Amstead as possibility to replace Vernon if the 49ers can't figure out a way to keep him and they may not be able too.