DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns GM search II

This is a saga haha ... Berry would be a good choice

My feelings also.

Who knows what will happen. It could be a repeat of last year for all we know. I'm trying to have an I don't care attitude to any of the hirings. Win some friggin games. Your best point is win game ONE.

We could always have Jimmy take over like Jerry does in Dallas.

not sure why people think Berry would be a good choice. He was helping pick the players that lost 32 games

He didn't coach them though.

Don't get me wrong, I like to rag on Clueless as much as anybody. However, bringing back the right-hand personnel man from a 1-31 team to be the G.M. is a bit much. That would seriously be such a Browns thing to do.

Is the right hand man Paul DePodesta or Berry? I thought Sashi Brown was to blame? This is getting hard to follow.

Does anyone understand that we were trying to be bad in those years? We were trying to follow the astros / cubs model in Baseball.

The key word there is "helping."

It's not his fault that someone on the coaching side had little idea what he needed/wanted.

That's my biggest concern with taking time to get a GM. The longer it takes, the less time they have to get on the same page.

I feel like Berry is likely to stick to the processes and not go Lone Ranger/Full Dorse.

How well will we evaluate talent, that'll depend a lot on the scouts. I'm not sure what Berry would do there. I feel fairly confident he'd at least stick to the script, and a plan might actually get a chance.

I still have my doubts about it being a good plan, but they might actually follow one which would be a step in the right direction.

Of course we don't know definitively, mac. Why don't you calm down and let this play out for a while...

Modell moved the franchise, Lerner died, and Junior didn't care. At least Haslam cares and is trying to find solutions. Out of those 4, I guess I'd rather have Haslam.

Come on Mac ... going 1 - 31 was part of the plan ... ...

Hue secured us the 0-16 season and parade! We should all be thankful, Hue certainly is.

Would I take the job?

Yes, then I'd spend a hell of a lot of time with Depo trying to figure out all the things I didn't know that I didn't know. Stefanski, Wolf, Highsmith, and Callahan, too.

Jimmy likes being the owner just fine. He has no interest in being the GM. The GM works for him. I don't understand why the people that work for him reporting to him bothers you so much. To me, it'd be more strange if they didn't.

People assume the organization is a mess because the results have been bad. But is it the structure or the people? It seems like a lot of the problems come from people working outside of the structure: Football guys (AKA guys with big egos that happen to work in football who are unwilling to learn new things) going with their guts and ignoring voices of reason.

I feel like the bad results kind of led/lead to the organizational problems. People want to skip steps. Something doesn't work immediately, and they think they've got to do something else. Instead of doing what "we" are doing better, they throw the baby out with the bathwater, and typically end up doing something else (i.e, their own not so bright idea) worse.

There's plenty of blame to go around for 1-31. That was the worst 2 year stretch in NFL history.

Worst 2 year stretch ever-- worse than every other team that sacrificed in the short-term to gain assets (cap space, draft picks), worse than every team before there was even free agency to divvy up the talent across the league, worse than every expansion team, and so on.

And here's the thing. There are a lot of bad teams and poorly run organizations in this league. Always has been, and still are. So to stick out in that context is painstakingly bad.

Yeah, the talent wasn't good, still doesn't excuse going 0-16. Look at the over/unders before the season. You basically never see an over/under for a team at under 4.5 games. You're sure that the worst team in the league (as picked BEFORE the season) is going to win 4 games or less? Put your money on it it then. This year it would have been the Dolphins (who tanked harder and more blatantly than the Browns ever did), and you would have lost. Over/under was 4.5 wins and they finished with 5.

It's the NFL.. we have like 200+ college teams feeding 32 NFL teams. Even fringe players are actually really good football players. Couple that with the aforementioned incompetence in the league and you can win a couple games here and there even with shoddy talent and mediocre coaching (at least every other tanking, overmatched, and/or expansion team in the history of the league has been able to over a 2 year period.)

So you put all this together, and I just want nothing to do with the head coach, GM, and key assistants who put that mess together.

This shouldn't be that hard to understand. Although if there's any confusion, it's the convoluted and constantly changing front office setups the Browns have had. It's hard to figure out who was responsible for what, and when.

Exactly. We should have dumped Hue at the same time we let Sashi go. We needed to get rid of all the stench from that historic 1-31 run. I still can't believe there were people here who wanted to keep Hue around "to see what he could do with better players". Our team sorely lacked talent, but it wasn't the worst roster in NFL history. Sashi played a big part, but Hue coached them to that epic record.

There's a reality some may want to come to grips with.

It will never - NEVER - get better with Haslam as the owner.

And since Haslam will never not be the owner, there is no hope.

He still hasn't realized he's the problem. Most ego maniacs and narcissists don't.

Depo likes it because he has found the only owner in the NFL that will give him the kind of power he has. Are Depo's intentions good? I have no doubt. Should he have the kind of power he does? 100% no. But the Haslam Depo relationship allows both to live out their fantasies - one as a defacto GM of an NFL franchise and the other as a Jerry Jones-type owner. Haslam downplaying Depo's role is a self serving move. It allows him a public message of Depo as the advisor while the reality is it's the Haslam and Depo show.

I'm an "actions speak louder than words" guy. There have been no actions taken this offseason that indicate anything will be different moving forward.

You can bank on another double digit loss season next year.

You mean Hue splitting the tackles out wide only to bring them back to the line of scrimmage every snap didn't have you wanting more?

Can you imagine how confusing that was to the defense!? Better players could have really made something of that.

And while I'm at it, the Browns not landing Paton was a huge, and I mean HUGE, failure.

Him "backing out" tells you everything you need to know.

I would bet my life savings on he was ultimately uncomfortable with Haslam's and Depo's roles.

Why is Berry the front runner? Because he's comfortable with Haslam's and Depo's roles. Haslam, the con artist snake oil salesman, will pass it off as not being aligned - which is a fancy word that the candidate was not comfortable with his level of involvement.

But what would have been better for the Browns? What would happen if everyone involved put the Browns first and not their own personal desires? Paton would have been the choice. He is far and away a much better candidate than Berry.

So why on earth wouldn't the Browns do everything in their power to land Paton?

It's disgusting.

Yes ... It was all Hues fault .... ...

I think the QB room he entered that season with had as many wins after the season as they did before it started .... ...

Its not like having a QB is important ....

Hue was so bad with QBs, he made Kitchens look good for half a year.

His inability to adapt was... impressive.

Hue's offense kept expanding, but he never solidified the basics with his QBs. And it was always his offense, he never tried to adjust to the players in a noticeable way.

Sometimes, throwing a kid into the deep end results in them swimming. Hue throwing a rookie into the ocean that was his playbook never had a chance. Especially when the pieces around the QBs we're also constantly changing.

Adapting, building, and working are gonna be key for the whole organization.

What qb’s were those? ... ...

Any of them young studs still in football ...

U gotta love revisionist history ...

Maybe it just wasn't a fit.

Well .. Robert Griffin is with Baltimore.. Kessler is with the Patriots .. McCown was just in the Playoffs with the Eagles and played one of the gutsiest games ever, while injured .. and atm Tyrod Taylor may be the starter for the Chargers. So yes, some of the QBs are still in football.. where is the revisionist history ?

It wasn't. It didn't fit with Depo's and Haslam's vision.

Whose vision would you trust more? Paton or Depo and Haslam.

Just because it wasn't a good fit doesn't mean it was right or that a "good fit" will ensure success.

The fit that Haslam and Depo seek is flawed.

What I love is that Hubris wanted RG III. He was going to make him a star again - "the earth moved". I would venture to guess old Hubris put the biggest Kibosh on drafting a QB that year because of one RG III. He got his QB and we got 1-15 and some draft picks.

And yet the Browns made young rookies + 2nd and 3rd string QB's look like rock stars this year and lost to them. Coaching has nothing to do with that right?

Maybe, maybe not is the only reasonable answer. You don't know.

Oh, he knows!

Quick question Rish, since you're so well connected. Here's a short list of other teams from a quick internet search of franchises interviewing Patton the last couple years...

49ers
Colts
Dolphins
Jets
Chiefs
Rams
Giants

None of them hired him. Are all of these franchises corrupt as well?

That's just it. We do know.

Haslam is the common denominator. It was in the best interest of the team to hire people that answer to him but remove himself from influencing decisions. We've tried his way over and over again and we know the results. He still wants to try it his way because he wants influence over things he shouldn't have influence over. Depo has his ear, knows the way Haslam operates, and uses that to his advantage to get what he wants. And round and round we go.

The results will be predictable. As a fan, it's your right to put your head in the sand and hope for something different. It's definitely more enjoyable that way to have a little bit of hope. But Haslam is what he is and what he has repeatedly proven over and over and over again.

It will never change until he removes himself from the equation.

Feel free to put your head in the sand. I get it. As a fan it's more enjoyable that way to have blind hope. I don't blame you.

As for Paton, the Browns brought him in twice. He has a close relationship with the coach. Haslam has said that's what he wanted, a coach and GM in sync. Why on earth would he come in twice if he wasn't interested in the job? He was looking for certain things that would make it comfortable for him to take it. Why not give him those things? He checked all the boxes.

Maybe he just wanted a couple of free trips to Cleveland so he could go to B Spot.

Seems to discount the interview resulting in rejecting the club as well. I don't see it as a one-way street. If he likes where he is, say no. Either side or both sides may have said no, obviously had to have done so.

Just using the past results to dictate the future is too exclusive for me. Let this play out some more. I hope different parameters yield different results. It may not. I am relieved enough to be rid of Kitchens.