DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum An Offseason Consideration- What To Do With Kareem Hunt?

Imagine the uproar if we do nothing and we just allow Hunt to walk.

Agreed. I think the chances of that happening were better a few days ago than today, obviously. But still, it could happen. A team might be ok with taking a risk at a certain level. Maybe it is a 3rd, perhaps a coach/FO on the hot seat might risk a 2nd if they need a feature back.

I would have thought a second round tender would have been a serious option for the Browns. Not so sure anymore.

I am not sure I would like that option. Knowing how we like picks, I don't see us doing that hoping we get a compensatory pick. We may not get any. By all accounts we are going to try to fill some positions in free agency. Put a low round tender on him. If someone wants to sign him, we get a decent pick. I can live with that as well.

Yes. I am aware of that injury. Thats the one I was referring to in 2015. I'm asking for the history of injuries people keep referring to. Because after the 2015 injury, he played in 28 games in 2016 & 2017 (which I'm pretty sure was every game possible) and can't see anything significant about him being injured again at Georgia. Even prior to the 2015 injury, I believe he played in every game in 2014. He has played in all games as a Brown.

When people refer to a "history of injuries" I would hope they are referring to a timeline of consistent injury problems (sometimes to the same area of the body, but not always) that leads to the player missing games over and over again.

I can't find anything.

I wish you hadn't posted that video which freezes on the actual incident.

I'd be curious what you read in this thread that makes you think fans aren't aware of Chubb's injury. I don't get that impression at all.

Injuries could happen to anyone at any time. Looking around the league, there must be 32 not smart teams because I don't see too many with 2 top 10 running backs. Do you?

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but the "big deal" here is not the speeding (whatever), it's not the open container (stupid, but it was in the back and the cop even said Hunt seemed GTG in terms of not being impaired.

Even all those things together are not a big deal, in that nothing much will happen from it.

The big deal is the video that shows him pleading with the officer because he knows he'll get tested (for weed), and when he does he'll fail.

That's the big deal.

Well, from what I gather, the % of games missed in the following seasons (college and Pro) after the injury is 0% and the % of college games missed before the injury is also 0%, so maybe people think there are other considerations to think about when it comes to Kareem Hunt's situation than Nick Chubb's 2015 injury (singular) and not his "history of injuries" people keep projecting.

It's the NFL and players will continue to get injured. Some more serious than others. I'm more concerned with players who repeatedly get injured. So far, that's not Nick Chubb from the information I've found.

So instead of injury prone, you're saying he's due....

If it was just weed and he's only smoking in the off-season, I'm not sure if it really affects the decision. Hopefully the NFL stops testing for it after the CBA gets redone and we can stop bringing it up.

The team he's supposed to be on is going to the Super Bowl. He's understandably upset with himself. While I would prefer he dealt with his disappointment in another manner, I imagine he's not the only football player to be doing so.

Precisely!

I can agree. That would work until Chubb and others need to be signed. If Hunt is seeking 35 mil, we couldn't sign Chubb to a similar contract. There would be too much money locked up in the one position.

I think the best bet for this year is to tender him, maybe even higher than I said earlier. Maybe 2nd round. If somebody wants to sign him and give up a 2nd rounder, so be it. If he stays, we will have a better idea of exactly how a 2 headed monster at running back might work.

If we can sign him to a smart contract, do that as well. My feeling is hunt wants to get paid, and I can't say I blame him. His suspension and now this little bump make the whole process cloudy.

At some point someone somewhere is going to administer a test. We'll see what happens next. I'd be faintly surprised if the Browns haven't already called him in..

Why wouldn't people be in an uproar over stupidity?

I've seen some of your crew raise hell for much less.

Everyone was aware of his injury. That was part of the concern on draft day... Not that he hadn't recovered, whether we had seen enough to know that he would actually return completely to form.

ALL questions were answered on a 92 yd run when he dusted the field with defenders.

There is nothing during that kind of devastating injury that indicates a player may be "injury prone".

My bet is that Hunt's going to get an original round tender (he was drafted in the third round) or nothing. I doubt anyone gives up a third round pick for a player with such an uncertain future.

I've said it a bunch of times. The Texans gave up a third round pick for Duke Johnson (Duke Johnson is not as good as Kareem Hunt). Prior to that the most a team gave up for a running back was the first we got for Trent Richardson. The Texans are not a smart team, they basically mortgaged their future for one year and they were the team willing to give up a third round pick.

The Dolphins got a sixth round pick for Kenyan Drake. The Bears got a sixth round pick for Jordan Howard. There is no way we get much more than that for Hunt (and it would have to be a complicated sign and trade).

j/c

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that Hunt is tested and fails the test for marijuana. A first time offense for the NFL substance abuse policy isn't of serious consequence.

The question becomes would the NFL consider it his first offense of that policy? In the incident at The 9, the NFL ordered part of his requirements to get back into the league was alcohol abuse counseling. So that begs the question would this be his first, or second infraction of the substance abuse policy?

To me that's the biggest question as to what his value is on the open market at this point should the Browns decide to tender him.

My guess is that Hunt's most recent incident, if he's tested, would not be his first positive the test. And even if it was he has shown an erratic pattern of behavior. Teams aren't going to give up much for someone in his situation. There are some teams that just won't have him at all, so that already limits his market.

(Not to mention the PR backlash from the original kicking video.)

Do you have anything that states he's ever violated the league's substance abuse policy before? Not saying he hasn't, but after searching the only thing I can find to even suggest that is the incident at The 9 I mentioned above.

No. I'm just guessing. Either way between the weed and violence issues Hunt is on thin ice.

I wonder if the NFL ties this incident (open container) to the alcohol abuse clause of his previous suspension. They've certainly done crazier things.


Regardless, he isn't hurting the Browns at all. He's on a super-minimum contract, and his actions really only made it easier for us to keep him on the cheap. This only becomes worthy of thought and effort when we have to sit down and figure out the contract (if any) that we want to give him, and that's at least a year away.

I thought that is why you led your post with "My guess".

What would be stupid?

This oughta be good....

Doing nothing and allowing him to walk and getting nothing would be colossally stupid and fully deserving of any uproar.

Oh. So kinda like when we released Josh Gordon and got nothing.

Didn't we trade him to the Patriots?

(The answer is yes.)

Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but how is giving up a 3rd round pick mortgaging your future?

Uhhh... exactly??

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2471...leveland-browns

Full disclosure: I didn't want Hunt on the team in the first place.

With these troubled players my stance is always to hold on to them because you don't have to pay for them while they are suspended anyway (unless they do something egregious).

We're not getting anything for Hunt. At that point we might as well hold on to him and let him create value for us on the field. At that point he is a free agent and you let him leave.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new front office makes an example out of him to show they are not taking on any of the character risks of the past.

It isn't. Sorry if it came off wrong. I thought people would remember that they also made the Tunsil trade.

From what I understand, the leagues doesn't state what stage guys are on the program, you just have to figure it out based on their suspension length and kind of guess what stage they are in.

This site breaks each stage down pretty well.

https://sportdfw.com/2016/05/10/the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-breaking-it-down/

I also saw here https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875478-breaking-down-how-the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-works

which I found interesting:

The "Substances of Abuse" document also covers alcohol. While it is certainly OK for men past 21 to imbibe whatever alcoholic beverages they choose, the policy maintains procedures for players who have abused the substance in the past. it provides avenues for treatment and counseling, and mandates sobriety for said players. It is on of the many areas where a player who wants to be in the NFL must live under a policy some other "normal" people might not have because he's playing for a multibillion dollar company"

So its possible based on that above, he is in the abuse program with the 9 incident, as alcohol was involved.

JC

In light of recent events, I'm legit concerned with Hunt. As far as "Hunt, the person" goes... I don't get the open bottle of Vodka on the way to the airport. You can't convince me that he's so dumb that he doesn't know that it can't go on an airplane. So why would you even take it unless you plan on slamming it before you get on the plane? Not a good look for someone who's every problem has revolved around alcohol. As far as "Hunt, the asset" - The admittance of smoking and possession of MJ puts him firmly on the "watch list". Between the MJ and open container, his perceived value is now significantly damaged.

Now other teams can clearly see some of the cards on the table, and look (and negotiate) beyond his talent alone. Hunt is clearly not out of the woods as far as his "issues" are concerned.

Those behind closed doors probably have a pretty clear picture of the likelihood of him staying on the straight and narrow... That will determine the risk/ reward of signing him to a contract. If the "issues" don't warrant a contract, he's a rental with the upside of a pick in return.

I'd probably put the 2nd round tender on him, if teams want no negotiate his rights, I'll get a 3rd in next year's and another pick in the future. If someone signs him to an offer sheet, I'll take my adequate comp and call it a day.

Gotcha!

that's makes more sense. I think though if I may answer - at some point, you have to take your shot.

The have a solid defense, a young QB on his rookie deal still, and IMO the best WR in the league. You cant always play for tomorrow. At some point you have to try and win today. When that point is there - you do what you can. Tunsil is a very young OL, with high ceiling that is playing a pretty level right now. You have a franchise QB who was injured previously, and your OL was your biggest weakness. I would have made the trade in a heartbeat, and honestly - I wish we had made it at the time.

Emmit Golden had a great segment yesterday about this.

Everyone knows hunts past. The league is watching you, media is watching you, etc. LITERALLY everyone is trying to pull for you to better yourself. HOW STUPID are you that 1. not only were you speeding, you were speeding with weed, and an open bottle in the car? Its like a triple whammy of idiot-ness.

I mean, if you gonna drink and smoke - which he shouldn't be doing. WTH are you doing it in a car, and even worse why are you speeding?!

Wish I had an answer bro. It's like drug-runners always getting pulled over for speeding, or a taillight out, expired plates, etc... Just can't fix stupid when it's that stupid.

I think PPE cleared this up already. That and your whole "We got nothing for Gordon" comment.

I mean we even got a something for Gordon. You're not suggesting the new powers that be should just let Hunt go for free now are you? Yeah, that would be stupid.

Not only that, but Hunt has a growing list of off-field incidents:

Jan. 2018: Fight in a nigthclub in KC
Feb. 2018: Assaults female at The 9.
June 2018: Fight at bar in Put-in-Bay

All three of these incidents were considered when NFL announced his suspension.

Dec 2018: Kareem Hunt undergoes treatment and counseling for alcohol and anger management

June 2019: Hunt gets in argument in Cleveland bar, police called no arrests made.

Jan: 2020: Hunt pulled over speeding, admits he'd fail a drug test, has an open bottle of vodka in his back pack, small amount of weed found, only speeding ticket issued.

I was surprised he didn't screw up and was able to play any games this past season. It's only a matter of time before he screw up again. The pattern is there.

I'm guessing an original round tender or they let him walk if they hear the NFL has tested him and a suspension will be forthcoming.

The new group will likely want to set an example as to the culture they are trying to instill. They won't want to give him any deal they can't easily walk away from, if any at all, and will not want to give Hunt an opportunity to make them look foolish for giving him another chance.

In the end, this all on Hunt and the choices he's made.