Let me start off by saying Kareem Hunt is a talented player. You never like to see talent leave, especially if you don't get commensurate value in return. We've seen that happen before.

That said, I'll go on record as saying I'm perfectly ok with letting Hunt go if the price is right - namely in the form of an early round pick.

cfrs stated something recently that I believe to be true and agree with....that we only will have Hunt for one more season. This is by way of a couple of factors. 1. You have Nick Chubb and I think most would prefer to keep him as the bell cow back for the future. 2. There really is no point in locking up so much money in the running back position overall and we would be doing that with long-term contracts with both Chubb and Hunt. Also, there wouldn't be much of a point giving a big contract to what would be a secondary running back option. 3. Perhaps the most noteworthy as it pertains to this point, he is a restricted FA and will be most likely tendered this offseason but can't be next season.

I submit that I would like to see the Browns tender Hunt with a second round restricted FA tag this offseason and let the chips fall where they may. Those chips being whether a team is willing to offer him a long-term contract in exchange for handing over a second round pick.

Hunt's value is not what he did last season for us, but what he did as the lead back in Kansas City. If a team is willing to sign him for the long term, get a known commodity in the RB position, and we have the chance to get a younger player for a longer period of time at any position that early in the draft, I think that would be the wiser choice than holding on to Hunt for one more season and then letting him walk for nothing.

If no team wants to offer him a contract and fork over a pick.....then you keep him for one more season and ride it out. But at least the attempt to get something in return for him was had.

This is where I stand on the decision-making re: Hunt's offseason. I guess the only thing that would change this would be if the GM and coach liked Hunt over Chubb regarding offensive scheme, which I'm not sure that is the case. If so, move Chubb....because I don't think it makes sense to commit long-term to both players.

I think we’ll have another year to assess him in terms of long-term usage/signing him. But I think he’s someone we need to have on the team. Baker needs “outlet” type guys. If you have Hunt and if we can sign/draft a viable TE, then our O is much improved

I can't say that I disagree with your post...you made good points. Without seeing what KS will do with the Chubb/Hunt duo, I'll ride with whatever the team elects to do...

Last year the Vikings were in either 21 or 22 personnel more than every team in the league except for SF last year.

I believe Stefanski will use those packages at even higher rate this upcoming year and Hunt can even play that FB type role with even more versatility.

This is not the year to get rid of Hunt and create a hole in Stefanski's offense when it is not necessary (imo, of course).

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

I get it. I'd only say, "outlet" type guys in the RB passing game are not that tough to find and can be had almost anywhere, IMO.

What I do like about Hunt is ability to be multi-faceted running, catching, and blocking. I do not think Chubb is there yet. Still, I think Chubb's ceiling running the ball is higher than Hunt's.

I will also add, put Stefansiki in the best position to succeed. Don't hamstring him because of what might happen in the future.

What if Chubb were to go down week 2 with ACL (I hope I didn't jinx him)?

You find a guy like Alexander Mattison taken in the mid-rounds that fits the scheme. Backup RBs are not hard to find and should not be expensive.

I can see both sides of it. From a strictly business point of view you make a lot of sense. This will be your only shot to get something that would be useful on a long term scale in the form of a high draft pick as he will be an RFA.

On the flip side we have a new HC who may see him as a very useful tool in his offense. I wouldn't want to see tools taken away from a new HC. With our track record, I would want to give that HC every possible way to succeed. If a new HC can start out on a winning note, it may do as much for our long term success as any draft pick we may acquire in making such a move. Winning breeds winning.

I agree with you in regards to how reasonably priced it is to get a back up RB that can catch out of the backfield. But if Chubb were to go down, that back up won't be Hunt. Hunt can step in well as a starting RB. That security blanket for Stefanski may be more valuable than we think.

There are a few factors that would help me make an informed opinion we do not have at our disposal at this time.

One of which we do have. Draft picks have the potential to be great but there are risks with any draft pick. So while draft picks are the best way to build a team, there are risks associated with giving up a proven commodity for that risk.

The second would be what round will he be tagged under? A first or second round tender would make me much more predisposed to endorse your strategy. In either of those rounds your odds of success are better at landing a productive player in the draft.

Third would be what will the actual contract offer to Hunt be? A look at the contract offer itself is something none of us know.

So for me, I like and understand the direction you're headed with this. Depending on the unknowns it may be something I would endorse. However, with no details in place at the present time, there is far too much information lacking for me to make such a determination.

Keep them both. The game is very simple. Run the ball and stop the run. Teams that do that the best win the most.

are they as good as hunt though? he has already proven what he can do and he's as good at it as anybody in the league. does he really cost that much to keep? he is a piece to the puzzle imo and there's other positions we need to fill more than a very productive guy on our O

Great thread... its something I've been wondering about quite a bit.

I don't know how the $$$ and "depth chart" were worked out but I seem to recall that the Panthers seemed to have a couple or few seasons there featuring Johnathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams. And they were killin' it.

I think the first question is whether or not we commit to a scheme that features 2 backs as equals in terms of their roles. That's not as simple a decision as I know I am prone to feel it is because IF we were to commit to that concept in scheme, we run in to that problem of having 2 premium players deserving of premium contracts. Can that be cost be justified on the organizational level?

but, we're having a regime change.... that's the optimal time to create hole in your team where you don't need to; it's just how it works.

KH signed a 1 year contract for a little over 1 mil.
he's a RFA? this year.

Yes, he is a RFA.

And this is exactly the description of the circle of losing this team has been in for many many years now.

I'd like for the Browns to trade for Mike Boone, Minnesota's #3 to be in our RB group. I thought he did very well as the #2 while Cook as out. I'm a UC grad so I'm a tad biased in this regard.

Still, Stefanski knows him and his value, or lack thereof for what how he fits.

Have OBJ give him money too?

No! People should stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

lmao!

J/C

I like the idea of keeping Hunt and trying to sign him to an extension. He can block well, and he and Chubb both could line up as either FB or HB. Depending on Stefanski's offensive scheme, we may not need to add a traditional fullback.

I don't think Hunt can block effectively enough to be used as an effective fullback.

We'll tender Hunt with a second round or third round tender, if someone wants to sign him to an offer sheet and give up one of those picks I'd let him walk.

I don't think it would be a third rounder. Just my opinion. Second round, to me, seems like the sweet spot.

Hunt 's blocking ability has nothing to do with Stefanski's need for a FB, IMO.

The RB position is separate to that.

You just don't let a "Hometown" Talent like Hunt just walk out the door for any price

I do not understand it. Everytime we get a position with quality depth, people want to trade it away. We have two of the best running backs in the league, the League rushing leader 2 years ago and this past year's # 2 rusher. We need good depth, not trade it away. That is the very thing we have criticized our GMs for doing for years, it is part of the reason we continue to have losing teams. Build depth, quality depth, then next man up. This past year, we traded away our pass rushers behind Garret and Vernon, then lost Garret and Vernon for the season, and the defense sucked. We have 2 pro bowl quality RBs, so what is the first comments of the offseason ? WE SHOULD GET RID OF ONE OF THEM. smh

1. Hunt is a strike away from never being heard from again.
2. Running backs are easy to find.
3. Running backs are cheap.
4. Hunt is a free agent in one year.
5. For the most part, only one running back plays at a time.
6. We also have Nick Chubb.

Incorrect Browns fan thinking, present since 1999.

The answer is keep the team together. 2nd thought, Don't forget the eight games Hunt was unavailable.

What to do with Kareem Hunt? How about nothing! Maybe trying to fix everything every 5 days instead of building a football team that knows each other and leaving well enough alone for one offseason; is the constant that's led to this team losing every single year near enough.

Did you just suggest this name above is equal to Kareem Hunt?

J/c

One thing that Hunt is also good at: blocking. That was a pleasant surprise IMO

Sign them both long term. Lightning and Thunder. Pound the ball on the ground. That is how the Steelers and Ravens have dominated us for years. Nick Saban said any team that cannot run the football and stop the run are pretenders. It is a simple game in the end. If you have great QB's like Brady and Montana you can supplement the run game with short passes. If you do not have those players at QB you build the lines and pound the football.

I think there will be plenty of carries for both Chubb and Hunt in Stafansky's offense. I look for a drop off in Chubbs yards and an increase in Hunts.
That should help both backs to stay fresh. Both seem like TEAM players which we need a lot more of,

Yeah as just hope that need more team players. As well as vets trying to help out the youth.

I happen to agree with you, but there are people here who are probably about to tell you that what you said is old school thinking for an NFL that no longer exists. The Tennessee Titans say otherwise, but we'll see tomorrow.

San Fran also. Aaron Rodgers qualifies as one of those QB's that can use the short passing game like a run game.

We should wait at least 30 seconds to let the new coach get a staff.
Then let them decide?
Just thinking out loud....

And other than the chiefs and *maybe* the Texans, they would be wrong.

Just like at the teams from the divisional round on up.

Chiefs, titans ravens, Texans, packers, 9ers, Seahawks, Vikings.

Run game and defense. Even with all the rule changes to benefit offenses, the defenses still adjusted, and it all balances out in the playoffs, time and time again.

As dynamic as our WR duo can be, we have the opportunity to go into next season with two absolute studs at running back, a hopefully more hungrier 3rd year QB, and a HC who oversaw an offense that ranked 6th in both overall rushing and rushing yards per game.

If Stefanksi gets the same level of production out of baker that he did cousins, were in the playoffs. We have the chance to have the best running back duo in the league. We would be stupid to trade/ let hunt walk.

Sign Hunt.

Sign Hunt, Trade OBJ to get O-line help.

There is no reason not to re-sign Hunt to a 1st round tender offer. It's $4.7 million, but that's a deal for someone with his talent.

Having 2 All Pro caliber RBs is never a bad thing ..... especially when they both want to block for each other.

This.
1st round tender or don't bother.

With he & Chubb, we have an opportunity to do some pretty unique stuff.

I agree, sign him to a 1st round tender. Try to sign him to an extension. With Hunt you extend Chubb’s career maybe 2, 3 years.

Trade him for a Safety.

I agree that Baker needs outlet type players. My contention is you can draft those guys every year starting in round 4 or 5, if not a UDFA.

I agree with Memphis. You have to look at the big picture. In 2 years we will need to lock up Chubb. At that point we will have too much of the cap locked up in a position that is being devalued by teams because drafting a quality back is something that isn't all that hard to do.

My thinking is sign Hunt to a fairly friendly deal and look to trade him in a year or two, at which point he will still have time on his contract making him easier to trade. He will also serve as insurance. Backs get hurt every year.

Trading away Hunt ensures that Chubb will get injured. After all, we are the Browns.
But a back like that behind Chubb may be too much of a luxury. I would take a No. 2 for him in a second.

If they do trade hunt I hope they draft JK Dobbins

I adhere to the premise that you can not have enough good football players.

Hunt is a good football player. Running backs take a pounding. Why move Hunt?

You need depth at running back. In addition. Hunt is special as a receiver. KS should use him all over the place. He is a great option to have.

At some point he could be used as an asset in a trade. When a running back drafted lower develops and gives you an option.

For now I sign him to a three year deal.

Give him a nice tender and see how he fits with Stefanski this year. Look at it again after next season.

I don't get the thinking that letting Hunt go would remotely help the team... You all know what you have in Hunt..

Trading Hunt is just what foolish Browns fans would want. Why would we keep one of the best running backs in the league, when we could get some draft picks? It's freaking ludicrous. The same people who think trading him is a good idea will be the first to bash the FO for doing it, when the guy wins the rushing title again.

Average RBs are easy to find, yes.

Elite RBs (which Hunt is)?

Not nearly as easy. We don’t have to do anything in terms of letting him go this off-season IMO.

I would keep him for 2020. He is an elite RB. He catches the ball well and he blocks. Nick and Kareem are a two headed monster that a DC would really have to game plan for. If you have Chubb in the backfield you can use Hunt as a flanker. Kareem is a FA after 2020 so he will really be trying to be productive and stay in line for a big payday. It's a no brainer to keep him. JMO

[quote=lampdogg]Average RBs are easy to find, yes.

Elite RBs (which Hunt is)?

Not nearly as easy. We don’t have to do anything in terms of letting him go this off-season IMO. [/quote

I still think the real question is if we're going to be able to (or willing to commit to) using 2 elite backs. Will we use wither of these guys enough to reflect that status? That to me would take a huge commitment. I'm talking an Oline built to run first, and putting the ball in to the hands of Chubb and Hunt a combined 40+ times a game at a minimum.

I'd love to see that, but is it realistic? I don't know.

As we discussed in another thread, the hope is the HC and the numbers guys are all on the same page in this decision. We have had a long history of HC's who started out losing and never recovered.

If Stefanski wants Hunt on the roster, I hope the numbers guys make that happen. Going into 2020 we need all of those guys on the same page. Stefanski getting off to a good start in the W column could go a long way in turning things around here. And that turn around would be worth more than anything we could ever get in the form of moving on from Hunt.

Good idea .. sign him to a 3 year deal, use him next year and then trade him when Chubb’s deal is up

Such a simple request.

Could the Browns just start a season with a win?

Please.

It is so depressing chasing 500. Get above 500 and stay there. Damn.

I've been hearing this crap about RBs being easy to find for years. Yet over the years we never seemed to be able to find one them. We now have two great RBs, and people act as if you can just go find another with Hunt's talent. IMO, only a fool would believe that.

I have no idea. For all the jockeying and positioning on this board, the truth of the matter is that nobody has a clue what the future holds.

Dalvin Cook was the Vikings 2nd most targeted "receiver". Hunt excels in that part of the game. Chubb still has a ways to go in that aspect of his game.

Stefanski has talked about the marriage of the run and pass as well as how hard it is on defenses when pass plays look like runs and vice versa. Hunt is good at both, so unlike years past looking at the back wouldn't tip the D to run or pass.

Hunt seems to be happy to simply still be in the NFL and I haven't heard anything about crazy contract demands, so I don't see why some are trying to get rid of him.

If he has exorbitant demands down the road, sure, take the comp pick and replace him. No need to get rid of good players in the hopes of being able to replace them through the draft, though.

Plus, Lincoln Riley used a lot of split back formations at Oklahoma which Baker had a lot of success with. It can help stress the defense in both directions horizontally. I wonder if Baker might facilitate putting Stefanski and Riley together.

Exactly. Let's not make the same mistake again and get rid of talent. We did it with Zeigler and payed for it all season. I can think of a few others like M. Schwartz, Gipson, Mack (although I believe he wanted out) Haden even Cam Ewing whom we misused while he was here. Aren't 2 of those guys starting on K.C. o-line? I think getting rid of Genard Avery was a mistake also although I don't know how good he will become. He was productive here and had potential. Let's keep talent.

This makes so much sense it hurts. Hunt for less than $5 mil? You are kidding, right? Shoot, I'd pay him twice that for 2020.

Keep him for at least one more year and draft a guy in the middle rounds to groom. I've watched the Stoolers and Ratturds find mid-rd RBs for years who were/are very effective. We can too...maybe.

I agree. You always have special backs who can make things happen on their own. They are rare, no doubt.

Then you have those mid round guys. If given a solid O-line, they can do just fine. Given a good enough line, darn near any back can look good.

I would rather invest in a good O-line with a little depth. Those guys can play a long time and usually don't sustain very many serious injuries. You can also find good linemen fairly deep in to the draft.

I never said we'd find a running back with Hunt's talent. I also believe I have said I would move him for a second or third round pick (not going to happen because teams don't value running backs). A second/third round pick and Hunt's replacement is better in my view than Hunt for only one more year.

How will we get Hunt's replacement? You stated a 2nd/3rd Rd pick AND Hunt's replacement is better than just Hunt for one more year. Are you suggesting a FA RB? Or burning a pick in hopes to get some production out of that?

Stefanski likes to run the ball...a lot. We will need a good 2nd back...maybe two. I'd pay him for one more year and use our picks and cap to fix the many areas that are already broken. Also, why can't it work with two stud RBs when running is a big part of the offense?

It can work (very well), I just value the pick, if it's a second or third round pick or better, over Hunt being on the roster for one more year.

Remember the Broncos' offense when they could basically anyone into the offense and they would get a thousand yards? That's the same offense we are running. The same offense that Raheem Mostert just averaged 5.6 yards in.

I want to keep Hunt for reasons I stated in a previous post. Also, just say next season we are out of the playoff picture by the middle of November (which is usually the case but I certainly hope not) we could always trade him then for a pick IF that's what our FO decides to do. Hopefully we will be in the thick of the playoff race and will need to keep him.

We usually don't even make it mid-Novemeber before we're left to hang on to some wacky playoff scenarios!

But to your point, the trade deadline was Oct. 29th this past year. You wouldn't have the luxury of waiting until mid-November to make a trade.

Your right Milk. I Forgot about the trading deadline until later. Well, there have been seasons we were out of it by then. More than I'd like to remember

Keep Hunt and Chubb together as long as we can. It's nice to know we've got that covered.

Keep him and use him in there with Chubb. This is maybe the most exciting upside on the offense, especially with some tackle improvements.

Keep him. Just incredibly obvious.

It is worth it to get his good attitude. IF Stefanski can't run with Hunt and Chubb, we have probs in C-town indeed. I especially want to see what they do together in the backfield.

I don't see us keeping Hunt. 2nd round tender and take the pick.

I'd imagine this will cause a rift and some fans will see this as "starting over."

I could see us drafting one and perhaps signing one. Maybe Abdullah?

I won't be upset if Hunt isn't here next year. I hope he's turned a corner in his life and wish him well and great success. Unless he goes to Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

Losing Hunt would be a dumb move.

I think it comes down to losing Hunt this year but possibly getting something in return or losing Hunt at the end of next season with getting zero in return. This is of course, if you think the team prefers to commit to Chubb. If someone is fine with the latter option, then so be it.

I don't think the Browns commit to long-term deals for both players for a several reasons.

Baker needs a top end running game. We have that with Chubb and Hunt. Not to mention Hunt is a good receiver. Keep him for at least 2020.

I don't see anyone giving up a second round pick for a veteran running back (the third round pick we got for Duke Johnson was the highest pick anyone has given up for a running back since we got a first for Trent Richardson). I especially don't see anyone giving up a second round pick for a running back that has domestic violence issues in his past.

My guess is that Kareem Hunt will be on the team in 2020. That is not a bad thing.

People are going to lose their minds when they find out there are people out there that think we shouldn't sign Chubb long term.

I'd be fine doing it this offseason although that is not the norm. We have a decent amount of cap space and it gets in front of other, bigger contract we might need to pay for, namely Myles Garrett and in a perfect world Baker Mayfield.

You can't sign a player to an extension until after their third year.

Stop ruining my dream!

I suspect we’re going to be a a run heavy, multiple tight end play action team starting next yearnif we can get the blocking together. You do not jettison high quality HBs in that scheme. I’ll bet we’ll be looking for a number 3! And It’s not like we’re cozied up against the cap. We have time until the cap becomes an issue so I really don’t think money should be part of the equation at this point.

More generally I hope this team keeps it’s talent. We’re definitely NOT a team that can get by without solid depth. Teams like the Patriots, Packers, Cowboys, 49ers, KC and others can solidly expect the “next man up” strategy to work in their favor because players know that it’s a very real opportunity with a very solid team. The culture is bigger than the players. We don’t have that benefit of the doubt or that luxury. When thing start going south for the browns, the whole thing falls apart fast. I’d say that alone is the over riding “culture” of the Browns the last 20 years. I hope that changes and players start to take the team more seriously and a real team culture begins to emerge but we need real depth until the plane actually gets off the runway and stabilizes. Much more so than other teams. Too often over the last 20+ years a few key injuries or “unexpectedly” poor play by specific positions sends the team into a total collapse and it can’t recover. If I’m the new Browns GM, that’s a reality I’d be addressing at all costs.

J/C. We absolutely need to hold on to Hunt for this season. It appeared that we did great with the Duke Johnson trade BUT he was sorely missed as we had no production from Hilliard and were without a TE. Not having his ability as a receiver and 3rd down back killed us. Hunt must stay because it will make us more dynamic and he has the knack for moving the chains.

Then I'd tender him at his original draft position. If that's still a thing.

Can't we trade his rights? Perhaps that's the best scenario.

It's entirely plausible that he's here for 2020. It's entirely plausible he's here much longer than that. I'm still skeptical.

We cannot trade his rights. The closest we would be able to do is a sign and trade but that’s rare and complex. Restricted free agents just don’t move very much.

We have the money this year and a little more the year after before we have to resign Myles, Ward, Baker, and Chub. Sign hunt to 2-4 year deal with most in first 2 years. When we can’t afford him anymore, year or two, trade him. He will be a lightly used 26-27 pro bowl rb with little left on contract. You can get something for him. No sense in not keeping him around as long as we can financially.

I'd imagine most restricted FA are not Hunt-caliber. Thus lack of movement. It will be interesting to see what happens.

does anybody remember Byner and Mack? Aside from Jim Brown, that has been our best running game. A tandem system, Chubb and Hunt. Yup, sign them both, fix the OL, resign Schobert and add to the D, pray that Baker's game gets fixed, and let's see what happens.

I have a feeling with our zone blocking system and RBs .... it’ll be an explosion in the ground and PA game. I’m actually excited about the prospects of our offense

I see no reason to get rid of Hunt. If Stefanski is all that with the offense (specifically the run game) it'll be a happy problem for him to feed both Chubb and Hunt and get Hunt touches on the perimeter.

Normally I rail against this weird notion where fans of this team seem to think we're not allowed to have talent, only draft picks. In this situation, I can understand where you're coming from. A team could throw some major draft capital for Hunt as a RFA, and if Stefanski doesn't think he's going to use him, then might as well get a pick.

Still. Get talent, then keep talent.

I don't think there's going to be much of a trade market for Hunt, due to his off-field issues. If there are any offers, figure something like a late round pick, not the second rounder or higher that some are hoping for. A team that was willing to do that probably would have signed him for cheap in free agency when he was available.

From a football perspective, there's nothing wrong with having Chubb and Hunt. Figure at least one of the two will be on the field the vast majority of offensive snaps. Occasionally both will be in on split backs or maybe line up Hunt in the slot or whatever. Hunt really isn't a lead blocker though so as much as people want to use him as a fullback in I-formation, that doesn't really make sense to do consistently.

Figure Chubb is the starter, but Hunt can spell him pretty frequently. Call it the best of both worlds.. we'll always have a great back in the game, they can stay fresh late in the game and late in the season, and it might extend Chubb's career somewhat.

I agree with you for the most part. I like Joe and think he's a good player. I might take the comp pick, though.

Seems like LBs don't last very long after getting paid.

Plus, if there is a place to try to save some money on D, it's probably LB.

If we can get a "hometown" discount, sure, bring him back.

If he wants Mosley money, find some young guys that can run and hit. I don't really want LBs trying (and mostly failing) to cover athletic TEs, anyways, any more.

I'd rather solidify safeties that can cover.

A team did sgin him cheap, We did. lol

I see whaqt yo;u're asaying, but I'm not sure we would get a better LB than Schobert with the comp pick, I'd keep him, he's good. In fact, we need more, we can't just completely rely on Garrett, need to get him some help. Think of JJ Watt, he's a beast, but even when they had Clowney, they still didn't make the SB, now without Clowney, they may be slightly better in some areas, but still failed to make the SB. I'm not saying Clowney is the difference directly, but extra pressure makes a big difference, The rats always have any number of guys that can blitz, and well, same with Pitt.

Strong run game helps open up the pass game, and a strong defense will help win the game.

Joe's good. He's not 5 years, $85 million good.

I agree. Joe is really good that the cerebral part of MLB. But he doesn't have elite speed and too often his tackles end up several yards beyond the point of impact. He's good, not elite MLB good.

Letting Schobert walk without an adequate replacement on the roster is not wise. My guess is that he will/is not demanding a top tier contract. Signing him to a contract similar to what Myles Jack got (https://overthecap.com/player/myles-jack/4749/) would be a great deal for both sides.

Which begs the question why does anyone think his value is so much more inflated now?

Yea I think he needs to be signed ...

Plus, if you're waiting for ELITE at any position, you will spend a lot of time waiting and a lot of time losing. Oh, wait, we've done that.

Bingo. That's the real issue. He's not getting moved because no one is going to give up enough for him. Kareem Hunt is more valuable playing for us during the 2020 season than a fourth round pick (or later) would be.

(I said the same thing about Duke Johnson and then the Texans gave us a third round pick.)

As I stated in a previous post, the third round pick we got for Duke Johnson was the highest pick a team has gotten for a running back since we got a first for Trent Richardson. I would be shocked if a team gave up a high pick for a player in Hunt's situation.

And the things is, not only would they have to give up draft capital, but also match our contract offer. Yet we signed him for next to nothing during the off season. He carries a lot of baggage that Duke Johnson didn't.

He's a restricted free agent so we would have to match the other team's offer. The point still stands though. No one is giving up a high pick for Hunt.

Besides his baggage, I believe a team would offer more for Hunt than we got for Duke just because he brings more overall talent than Duke...

I don't knwo, his talent hasn't suddenly disappeared. So, a team might want to upgrade their run game. Personally, I don't see us getting a high draft pick for him either, so I'd just sign him and keep the tandem of Chubb and Hunt for a long time.

Yet nobody was offering him anything when we picked him up with zero compensation last year.

Not now, but if he's having a good year in 2020, as the trading deadline approaches, if we aren't in the playoff hunt, a team that is and needs a RB might pony up.

If we aren’t in contention trade him for whatever you can get.

j/c

I think the Hunt situation is different than other RBs who did not bring much in a trade.

He's crazy young at 24...he's only played 2.5 years in the NFL so he's "fresh"...he did something stupid to get suspended but he's not got a craving for drugs that we know of...he's been praised by anyone asked.

Duke wasn't nearly as good/special as Hunt...yet drew a 3rd because he's young-ish and not beat up with overuse...and is quite good at what he is good at.

I'd give him the 1st Rd tender - which is probably more $ than we must - and try to sign him to a 3 yr deal. One less hole to fill for the near future. JMO

True and I hope we keep him no matter what is offered for him ...

The Texans were dumb to give up what they did for Duke Johnson. Teams, rightfully, don’t value running backs.

You are correct. But he was under suspension by the league because he kicked a woman. The optics were awful. I give/gave JD credit for taking that chance.

I'm curious to see what weight Montrel Meander comes into camp at. He's listed at LB on the official site now.

I think we've got adequate replacements available. Maybe not great, but it's hard to tell without them getting more reps.

It comes down to the contract. I think someone will pay Schobert more than I'd be willing to.

He'd be nice to have back. Less nice since he won't be on a rookie contract any more. It'd be nice to make it work, but it's a business. We just drafted 2 LBs who are on rookie contracts.

Your right so whose to say someone won't be dumb enough to offer a 1 or 2 for a better RB in Hunt

What makes you think that teams who wouldn't pay anything to him last off season suddenly see him as a player they will not only give up draft capital for, but also a much larger salary than we did?

He only played eight games and his stats don't jump out at you. The best case scenario would be to keep him for a year or two and give his value time to increase. Then you may actually get a premium for him.

If we're not in contention at the trade deadline, Haslam is going to take a flamethrower to everything.....again.

The Texans don’t have any picks left to trade.

The Day we trade Hunt.. Chubb will tear a ACL.

Colts?

Kidding don't want to trade him. Bargain bull.

Your username checks out here.

He's not under suspension but he's one slip up away from an indefinite suspension. Also, because he has assaulted a woman some teams won't even touch him (which limits his market).

I feel dirty even talking about that last sentence.

The only thing that makes me a little more comfortable is that it seems like he went above and beyond what he was required to do by the NFL.

His family is really messed up as well ....... so hopefully the help he got will help him in all of his interpersonal relationships.

j/c

I want the new HC to have the tools he needs to succeed. I don't mean he has to win a SB immediately. I want a Browns HC to do well enough to allow the Haslams to take a breath and relax.

Keeping Chubb and Hunt together as a RB tandem is a big tool. Used well and barring injury, it can power a team. Give them an OL. Make them the center of the defense's attention. Oh yeah, we have Landry and Beckham. Do we have a QB?

If Coach Stefanski can have a winning season, he buys 2 more years (at least.) Would love to keep them together beyond 2020, but Hunt would have to agree to stay for less than he could get on the open market. How humbled and grateful is he?

Over the years this team has constantly traded good players in hopes of obtaining more. This is good, sometimes. We have two of the best backs in the NFL. We just hired a coach that will utilize the run game and PA. Hunt is a threat in both areas. For once the thought should be more about how to keep him, instead of trying to get something for him.

Getting rid of top tier talent is not what this team needs right now. Good talent needs to be retained.

It makes much more sense to get rid of one of our high-priced WR before we get rid of one of our bargain-priced RB. Both from a money perspective as well as an offensive development one. We're sooooo much closer to being a dominant running team than we are a dominant passing team. As little as 2 good/lucky Olinemen pickups and the HC/OC not being a dumpster fire and we're running over teams. Passing-wise, we still need Baker to forget about this past year and take the next step from the end of his rookie year. If it happens (I think it will) it will still take time. I think this past season was a negative in terms of his overall development.
Then again, if a guy just doesn't fit what Stefanski wants to run (talent-wise or attitude-wise), I will accept getting draft picks for our blue-chip talent, but 1-31 isn't far enough away for me to be ok with watching actual NFL talent walk out the door (after many years of not having much of it).

I believe we put a 1st round tender on him. I think with Baker in a prove it year, coming into the year with a new HC, and yet another new OC, Baker is goin to have his plate full. He will need to have Hunt and Chubb to lean on.

Lets face it, our season ends and dies with Baker. Love him or hate him, we need him to succeed. Having Hunt only adds to the chances he will. JMO

I agree. A 1st round tender makes sense. That’s what I’d do as well

He is a proven stud RB...he's young...he's not had another incident...he's said and done all the right things on and off the field...people have short memories. His new contract can be structured to VOID if he screws up again.

That doesn't guarantee that someone will come get him...but I wouldn't take that chance for 4.7 mil for a guy with that talent...he was essentially a free, early, draft pick, chance for us...I wouldn't give that away over the difference between a high and low RFA tender.

j/c...

NFL "surprise" drug test probably right around the corner....

The Clown show rolls on...

I'm sure the NFL is going to test him, and that should answer that question.

A little more info here...

Doesn't it ever end with us?

1. I'd beat the crap out of my brother, if true.
2. Can't you afford your own car?
3. I'd beat the crap out of my brother, if true.
4. I'd abstain from the very appearance of evil (brother).
5 I'd beat the crap out of my brother, if true.

"Police called to the home of Kareem Hunt. Hunt arrested for allegedly assaulting own brother"

j/c...

Not great for a guy who doesn’t have much wiggle room.

Just test him and get it over with (one way or another).

I'm so over players getting popped for weed. Rules are rules, but I think I care least about this one.

Players need to negotiate marijuana out of banned substances in the next CBA.

Here's the police report...

j/c:

How are you enjoying yourself so far, Stefanski?

I don't think we should pass too much judgement (or anything else), considering it wasn't his car.

If he would have looked at the analytics he would know that Cleveland is the location where NFL careers go to die.

Like others have said, I'm guessing the NFL has already reached out with a cup and/or hair tweezer.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/24/kareem-hunt-pulled-over-speeding-marijuana-weed-cleveland-browns/

Small amounts of weed in 3 different locations sounds like someone (may or may not be Hunt) is messy and doesn't clean up after themselves. The car not being Hunt's makes me think it's not his.

/assumption

Or it's like a little kid pushing his vegetables around on his plate in to separate piles to make it look like less is there! I used this tactic as a kid.

j/c

I think the NFL should follow MLB's lead and just remove marijuana from their list of banned substances.

Until that time, however, rules are rules. Anyone who risks a multi-million$/yr job over catching a buzz deserves what they get.

Get rid of him. Drugs are a weakness and this team does not need any more weakness. And, I was a huge Hunt fan earlier in this thread.

yep and the odor in the car came from his brother smoking weed earlier in the day.

like DOTD just said, I lauded Hunt earlier in the thread for his ability, but he is a time bomb. poor judgement is a personality trait. these episodes will continue, get any value you can now in a trade for an olineman, safety, or LB.

I'm not sure how much you know about weed, but you can smell weed without having smoked it. Good bud has a powerful aroma.

j/c...

Pit, I am not passing judgement on whether he is smoking weed or not, or whether it should be lawful to smoke weed or not. But, the fact is Hunt plays in the NFL where weed smoking is not allowed and he is being monitored after undisputedly poor behavior.

In that situation only a person with poor judgement gets into a car that smells like weed, owned by a weed smoker, and speeds. Trade him or cut him. So sick of this crap.

Go back to telling people to get off your lawn.

This one seems pretty simple. If he is tested by the league and passes, he was telling the truth.

If he is tested by the league and fails, he was lying.

What if he is never tested? Small chance of that being the case, but you never know.

Then what? Is the juice worth the squeeze?

"Cuff 'em!"

If he isn't tested then I suppose we take him at his word.

Kareem testing himself would also be a pretty convincing move if he is telling the truth.

You also can exercise REALLY hard (like running a half marathon hard) and pass a marijuana test.

My former college roommate (on the track team) did this when he found out he was going to be tested the next day. He left our place at 10 PM and just went running for 3 hours.

Passed with flying colors.

jc

so, if we're gonna go back to having perfect snowflake players who never do anything wrong, the standard should be set by also cutting our QB with a police tape.

keep that same energy across the board. cut hunt, garrett, Baker, OBJ because he will fight another kickers net, all of them.

lets go back to the mangini days were we sucked hard with no talent, but atleast they were high character guys that we can have moral victories for!!

WHERE HAS THIS LIFE HACK BEEN ALL MY LIFE?!

I have a couple more questions...

Why did the officer feel the need to search the vehicle in the first place?

How fast was he going and what was the posted limit?

He smelled grass.



77 in a 60 according to the report.

yeahhhhh I am going to call in and say bs on that one.

its the magic "sir, i smell what seems like marijuana. i need to search your vehicle".

i get hit like that by Mentor cops a couple months ago. he claimed he smelled weed......after i just finished dropping 150 bucks to get my entire ride detailed. and speeding isnt a reason to have your vehicle searched. so the cops definitely had to hit him with the "i smell marijuana". its the go to excuse.

Well said! Keep Kareem.

Swish, that's a false equivalence. OBJ and Baker are not under high scrutiny after being suspended for battery by the league.

One mistake I can deal with, but when you are just off suspension and being monitored, a person with good judgment does not make that decision. I don't think this is something Garrett would do in his situation.

And btw one of my greatest hopes is that Stefanski will crackdown on the distracting but not illegal behavior of OBJ and Baker. Particularly Baker who is his own worst enemy.

Did you consent?

Consent is not needed,the odor of weed gives the officer probable cause to search.

its the law.

its not a false equivalency, unless youre ONLY talking about the league.

the league isnt talking about suspending him. the team isnt talking about cutting him. YOU are. so by that logic, what i said is perfectly valid.

If there are no charges and it wasn't proven he was smoking weed, I don't see the juice in the first place.

Cool. Then possibly another Antonio Callaway situation.

The way it read, I thought maybe you challenged the search. Cops are beginning to back down once challenged on the "sniff test". Judges are throwing out evidence in states where it is legal, recreational or medically... In either situation there is no valid reason to suspect a "crime".

well, up here its still decriminalized. so its not a big deal because the most they can do is write a ticket. its like 175 and doesnt even stay on your record. its like a speeding ticket and they send you on your way after taking the weed (the part that really sucks).

he wasnt cited for DWI, so that means the officer didnt suspect Hunt was high whatsoever, just he smelled weed in the car.

"Then possibly" being they key phrase in your sentence.

\

Yes. Thank you for confirming why I typed what I typed.

From what I know if you regularly smoke, this won't work. Since THC is stored in your fat cells.

If you smoke the day before / a couple days before and aren't a regular user, this can work.

If it's stored in fat cells I will test positive for another 300 years then

You could go running for 3 hours and be done with it.

I tried but I was wore out 6 seconds into the running part

You're welcome.

I’m impressed Hunt was successful with the “these aren’t my pants” defense lol

In of itself it’s not a big deal, certainly not worth clutching our pearls over. But it’s like with the OBJ thing: why do things to invite problems in the first place? We like to blame Haslam for the reputation of being a circus, but every daggone year it seems like we have at least one player doing something stupid and totally unavoidable that only reinforces that there’s plenty of more circus where that came from.

If there isn’t one already, there ought to be a sign in Berea that says “X number of days since our last unprofessional mishap”

J/C...I don't do anything unless he is suspended by the league, at which point I would cut him.

What he did doesn't change if the league suspends him. Does his infraction become worse because Roger Goodell is in a bad mood one day?

If you exercise, the fat is released into your kidneys. So this shouldn't work unless you are drinking tons of water while and after you run.

I don't know if it was a infraction. Do you know something I don't?

If he tests positive, it is a infraction. If he tests clean and the league suspends him anyway, then that is a different thing to be discussed when and if that happens.

I would be surprised if the league hit him with something the cops wouldn't even slap a misdemeanor on him for.

Then again, it's Goodell and we're the Browns, so I expect a one year suspension under the "personal conduct" excuse.

p.s. we STILL need to put a 1st-round tender on him, ASAP.

Maybe, but I don't see it much different than the Calloway deal.

I am mostly disappointed because some of these people are just stupid....I mean come on, what are we talking about here?

You have a employer willing to pay you $millions, and you keep making stupid mistakes.


Just stay clean. Retire at 35 with $millions, buy some prime growing land in Jamaica and grow all the prime reefer you want. Smoke all you want. I don't care. Just don't screw up my team and our chances because you are a dunce.

While I do agree with you in principal, there is one place where we disagree.

Unlike pants, cars have a title to see who actually owns them. So whether it's actually his vehicle or not is easy to find out. Pants? Yeah, not so easy to figure out.

Agreed. It seems so easy to us Ball but these players that keep messing up treat it like it was Nuclear Physics. Guess they never had to work for a living.

I get that too. Just seems to me that when you have the goose that lays gold eggs, you figure out a way to keep it.

Don't have to go to Jamaica to grow your weed, soon will be legal in most of US, wonder when NFL will catch up with society. PS, never used weed myself, birth defects in children scared me enough. Hope Hunt can play, time will tell.

If you get caught with weed you get fired from your job.

Was Hunt charged with possession of weed?

The sad part is, Hunt just put himself on Depodesta's Moneyball list of assets to be used to gain more draft picks.

Or he might just be looked at as a good, young player on a team-friendly contract, all of which would be viewed as positives in a "Moneyball" approach. We just don't really know.

His contract is up. He's a RFA.

For me its rather simple. KEEP HIM!

1. Hunt loves playing for the Browns as it is recorded to be his lifelong dream to play for us. The more players you have of this nature the more apt you are on changing the aura of playing for the Browns.

2. Any Offensive Coach would love the possibilities of a 2 back system especially of the likes of Chubb and Hunt. Hunt is willing to block and is not just good but "GREAT" pass catcher.

3. In this era the return in trading a rather good RB will not get you a great asset for the team. Him here will benefit us much more than what we would get back in return.

4. Make no mistake about it. Look at the 49ers running game, yes Shanahan is an outstanding coach but Stefanski is a diciple of Kubiak which is that Zone blocking scheme with a strong running game involved. We have some great pieces of the puzzle to achieve this and yes, involving our franchise QB, Chubb, Hunt and hopefully a healthy Njoku and the TE from Princeton! We also have some very talented WRs who would benefit with the strong playaction concepts involved with what I believe our offense will deliver.

Hunt is a positive for us in many ways, simply put.
KEEP HIM!!!

jmho

Haus...should the Browns keep him, damn right they should but I doubt he fits Depodesta's Moneyball scheme.

KEEP HIM! He gives us a lot. And he is overjoyed to be here. Use them both at once. Use the other if one gets dinged. Pound on everyone with at least one solid tackle in FA and one in draft. But what would you give to have this situation in Berea for next year if you didn't already?

How about letting fans have a popular one kept, and try to make that work? Keep Hunt. Get more.

There was a time when I could have legitimately asked, "which TE from Princeton?"

Moneyball does not mean cheap.
Moneyball does not mean cheap.
Moneyball does not mean cheap.
Moneyball does not mean cheap.
Moneyball does not mean cheap.
Moneyball does not mean cheap.

What's a Kareem Hunt?

Moneyball? Really? That’d make the five billionth time you’ve typed that and made yourself look idiotic. Stop, for Christ’s sake! (Sorry, PastoMarc.)

If I were GM, I'd require a portion of his time spent volunteering or giving back to help women spurred by abuse.

I doubt we do that, unfortunately.

It's an African safari in search of the wild and rare 'Kareem'. I thought everyone knew that...

Here's a random thought I had this weekend.

What if we look to sign and trade Kareem Hunt to the Redskins for Trent Williams?

We could then pick up a change of pace RB in the 3rd or 4th round.

All the people Trent Williams had a problem with in Washington are no longer employed.

If we get anything of value for Kareem Hunt, my guess is that, he will be gone. Data shows that running backs should not be valued highly.

If we don't get anything better than a second round pick I don't think we trade him.

If he signs in FA don't we get a 2nd or 1st rounder because he is a RFA?

If there are no takers, why not re-sign him for a similar prove it contract.

I'd say that we are the losers in that trade.

We'd have given away a young, star talent with his best days still ahead of him to acquire an old, nearing retirement talent that will cost 8x as much, not contribute for half as long, and will still need us to draft his replacement this year while we are in position with a draft stacked at the position.

That's a good point.

I don't see us signing Kareem Hunt to a long term extension. So the question becomes about value. What is more valuable to the team in the short and long term -- Kareem Hunt (and his 2020 salary) or whatever we get back in compensation? Picks are not just picks. They can be used in trades and they are cheap contracts for four years. With our new front office we should be thinking about value and not just "what can this guy do for me right".



We get to tender him a contract. First, second, or original round tender (in Hunt's case this would be a third round pick). If another team signs him we have a chance to match the offer, if we do not match the offer we get that team's pick based on the level we tendered him.



If there are no takers let him sign his tender and play for one year.

This is my thinking as well.

The question is, at least to me, if the Browns are perfectly fine with letting him walk for draft pick compensation because they know they won't/will not sign him long-term.....what it the sweet spot? I don't think this latest news aids the Browns whatsoever.

j/c...

Uh oh....

It does help us if we want to sign him for cheap for another prove it contract.

Well this doesn't help.

Why was he pulling himself over in the first place?

I'm guessing the officer flashed his lights as Hunt flew by him and we just can't see the lights.

It certainly doesn't sound good.

King John, baby!

Let's GOOOOOOOooooooo!

We had a great talent for a season for next to nothing. My how that sucks!

Played a ton too.

So now Dorsey called the plays? Keep reaching.

Nope. I was referring to the suspension.

You do realize you don't get paid for the games which you are under suspension, right?

What are you talking about? Nothing I've posted refers to what he was paid. Nothing. That's meaningless in this.

Try again.

SMH.

What are you talking about? We got a very talented player for next to nothing who played for eight games. And that's a bad move by Dorsey why again?

Because it's another player that has mush for brains, whose value has now declined to the point where he had more value when he was ON suspension accrueing zero stats than the value he holds today. Even holding his rights as a restricted FA, whatever leverage we had to get something in return has possibly lessened.

But yea, just simply think about it in terms of 8 games and $1M. How about we try and think of a broader picture, shall we?

J/C



I guess this was answered with the release of the video....

Possibly.

I think you mean 665k. We got his talent for eight games on the cheap. He played in every game we knew he would be eligible for. The only thing you have to complain about now is we didn't get even more than that.

Hunt was active for 6 games.

Prior to this event, I would have said to put a 1st round tender on him. Now I would think more along the lines of a 3rd/4th.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuntKa00.htm

Hmm .. I could have sworn it was 10. Guess I was wrong.

Wow that TMZ report was kind of damning. I wonder if he will be suspended again.

Frenchy...the only problem with your idea, while it makes a lot of sense from "a football stand point"....

...from the viewpoint of a Moneyballer, you "never pay" a player filling a backup role. MBers believe anyone can run the ball for 1300 yds as a rookie..nothing special about that..those type of RBs are a dime a dozen according to a MBer.

As for extending the career of Chubb, that consideration is not even on a MBers list.

Kind of sad, isn't it

Do you have a link ?

TMZ video aside, Kareem Hunt (on the field)... isn't he the type of player that #analytics would WANT to bring onto the team?

Usually data driven front offices are willing to take chances on players with off the field issues because their acquired for little compensation but can provide big upside.

With that said, you don't being any value when you can't play. And running backs are seen as highly fungible.

I could see not wanting to give him that next big contract, but we've got him for another year for super cheap.

So even if we get very little out of him, we paid even less to get him here. Let his latest run-ins sort itself out and then go from there. The decision on him doesn't happen for another year, imo.

Imagine that...some dude with an economics degree from Harvard and just 4 yrs of half-arsed experience in the NFL making decisions such as...determining Kareem Hunt's value according to some kind of football rule that he (Depodesta) made up.

A MBer rule declaring RBs like Hunt have little to no value in the NFL. RBs who run for 1300 yds as a rookie are easy to find in the draft, right?

Don't you love the way the Browns are going to roll, playing MB 2.0

My guess is that he will miss more games this year because of a suspension. I'd hold on to him until we find out how long he is going to be out. Nobody is giving anything up for him at this point.

Raheem Mostert says hello.

(Also, it's basically a general rule in the NFL that running backs are easily replaceable and not valued highly. Remember when everyone was making fun of Dave Gettleman for taking Saquon Barkley second even though he needed a QB?)

cf..so you are saying that the Browns Moneyballers have a history of recognizing and selecting highly talented RBs at the NFL level, right?

Just one problem CF...our Head Moneyballer had a chance to judge a player like Mosert himself, back in 2016, Depo's first season with the Browns.

OH WAIT...THAT "WAS RAHEEM MOSTERT" and DEPODESTA HAD A CHANCE TO SIGN HIM...

What did the Browns MBers do with Mostert?...THEY CUT HIM!

Those who lack the experience to recognize talent should not be allowed to make decisions such as which RBs the Browns sign to a contract.

I mean... sure... if you ignore the fact that he was cut by how many teams before he got here? Then went to SF and was again buried on the depth chart until a rash of injuries forced him to get meaningful snaps.

Your indictment of DePo and Co, in this instance, involves far more people than that... including SF.

Aye yi yi.

I am just chillin in my home town.

Vodka and weed. Suspended last year.

People struggle just to get by. Like the Browns fan cop who pulled him over.

Hunt has a chance to make generational money. Enough for his family and another generation.

And he is speeding on the freeway with a open vodka container and weed in the car??

Brilliant.


A fool and his money are sure to part ways.

Just a lack of common sense. He was going 77 in a 60 zone. Sorry, that gets you pulled on any interstate, and it should.

So he is blitzing the speed by 17MPH with a open bottle of vodka and weed in the car.

Yep, no common sense.

FWIW, the vodka was in a backpack on the backseat. Its not like he was cruising along with a 90 proof road-pop between his legs on the car seat while he drove.

Did hunt get popped for a DUI?

So if he wasn’t driving drunk, and a bit of weed was in the car but he wasn’t high either........

Why should we care?

I can understand being young and irresponsible.

But damn. This guy was suspended. He is under a magnifying glass. Freddie and Dorsey praised him for his community service work.

His career is front and center. He could have been taken to the station and tested for alcohol and weed. Probably failed both.

He could easily be cut for this.

The Browns his home team gives him a chance. Stands behind him. Let's him get his feet back under him. No doubt he was lectured excessively about how to conduct himself.

I have zero patience for this kind of crap.

No he didn't get a DUI. We should be concerned because the guy decided to skate on thin ice. It shows a lack of thought process.

I am not saying we need to get rid of him, but wouldn't want to see us invest much money in the guy. Once people start to get caught in the legal system, it can be hard to get out because people are watching.

On that section of I-90, there are speed traps everywhere. Westlake cops love to camp out at the Lorain County line where the speed limit drops from 65 to 60 when you cross the line. They pop people all the time who don't decelerate quickly enough. However, once you get to Rocky River where the speed limit is 60, you are 5 miles or so from the Lorain County line. 77 is going to get you pulled over just about anywhere, except maybe Texas or the Autobahn.

I obviously don't drive it as much as you, but I do it enough I know what you are talking about. I stay in Westlake for many games. I have seen them parked up against the concrete divider. I by nature don't have a heavy foot, and I use my cruise control as a rule. I also know about going to the Westlake. My wife and I like to eat at Chez Francois in Vermillion a few times a year. When we do that, we stay out there at a Holiday Inn Express on Saturday night, make the 40-50 minute drive to the stadium on Sunday morning.

Kareem is from the area and been up there long enough to know that 90 is well patrolled. From Cleveland out to the Lorain county line, you have what, 4-5 different communities? They are all going to try to stem speeding in their bounds, not to mention the Trooper assigned to the sector who might set up camp.

Its not really about law enforcement or safety for these suburbs. Its all about revenue for their podunk city coffers. 60 is a ridiculous speed limit on an interstate highway.

[deleted: I didn't see the earlier posted article]

"Let's see now gotta drive to the airport. Got weed - check. Got some vodka - check."

"Now all I need to do is go 77 mph in a place where the cops love to camp." "Yea that will work just shoot right past him."

The Tape: "I've lost so much you don't understand I should be playing in the Super Bowl."

Except I was thrown off the team and suspended by the NFL.

The policeman and die hard Browns fan. "It's ok Kareem I am just going to give you a traffic ticket so you won't get into trouble." Go Browns.

Ah life is so unfair.

Maybe so, but it is what it is. I am not saying I agree with the limit. I am just saying the signs are posted. It's not up to you or I to decided it needs to be 70MPH.

When you see a speed limit sign, you need to follow the limit, like it or not.

I don't like going 20MPH through a school zone, but it is what it is

I would slap original tender on Hunt. Take the draft pick and never look back.

Because thats not an overreaction or anything.

Correct. It's not my nature to overreact.

How much weed was found by the police? Was it those little ass crumbs I saw earlier in the thread?

And the bottle of vodka.....do you not drink? How else are you suppose to get alcohol? Is there a wormhole I’m not aware of that teleports bottles from the store directly to the house? Or do we still have to buy from the store, throw it on the back seat and drive home like LITERALLY everyone else?

Again, cop didn’t charge him with a DUI or DWI, so he wasn’t driving under the influence. He got a speeding ticket on I-90. When DONT they have someone pulled over on that interstate?

Did he get ticketed for the weed, or just speeding?

The way y’all talking about this particular incident, one would think he ran from the cops resisting arrest or something.

Oh, that’s right. That prestigious award goes to our #1 overall draft pick.

Don’t start applying purity test now. Keep that same energy across the board. Cause a lot of people on this board made excuses after excuses for mayfield.

We got a team full of immature players. Oh well.

Didn't they say it was an open bottle of vodka? This is what concerns me:

From an article on espn, all of the contents were in a backpack.

Which is why I’m looking at this crazy right now. He wasn’t high or drunk when he got pulled over. Wasn’t cited for anything but speeding.

I agree with peen that he’s got to be smarter. But the pushback from me is from posters saying we should cut him.

I think a lot of posters are tired of the charades that go back to the Gordon years, can't say I really blame them.

He's got an OPEN bottle of liquor in the car. Everyone in the world knows that's a no-no, I'm sure it's beaten into your head tenfold if your in a professional sports league.

He's also got weed and is speeding. Not really that hard to connect the dots bro. Stupid, stupid, stupid... and has ZERO to do with Mayfield.

Only bring up mayfield from the standpoint of how people will look the other way for one player, then metaphorically lynch another.

And I’m sick if this too. But if so many people are sick of it since Gordon, then there should’ve been a hell of a lot more pushback when:

We drafted Calloway
Drafted baker
Traded for OBJ
Signed Kareem

And some other things I forgot about because it always seems we got a player in the news for all the wrong reasons.

That’s all I’m saying, fate. Keep that same energy across the board. If we’re gonna have a purity test around here, keep a standard. We got two players with police tapes and a bunch of others who can’t keep their damn mouths shut.

I’m not mad at bake or hunt or OBJ.

I’m mad at Dorsey for bringing them here in the first place. Man, he really did suck.

"Take the loss [censored]." Sam Ehrlinger to Kyler Murray...2017,

Its a shame the way some react ... Memph took a shot at me and was giddy at what happened .... all i could think was .... KJ signed him off the streets and Memph thinks it was some big blunder ... *L* ...

Me thinks folks are way over reacting once again .... it seems we may have another 2 cent head but maybe he turns into Tyreek instead of Antonio .... or maybe we’ll have to settle for at least one first rounder for a dude we signed for peanuts off the street ... KJ sure was a bafoon ...

The cap was on the thing. Have you never brought a previously opened liquor bottle anywhere? To a friends house or the beach to mix a few cocktails for friends?

I have never heard that qualified as open container. Seems like an absolutely ridiculous part of that law. Turns out I’ve broken it multiple times. So has my mother, father, probably wife (bringing the bottle to me at the yacht club, she rarely drinks). Friends and so on.

I bet the vast majority of America has no clue that transporting a previously opened bottle of liquor is illegal.


It’s not like hunt was intoxicated. At the very least let’s see what happens before just letting him go. He’s one of the few bright spots from last season. Everything he did on the field was 100 percent effort, which on last years squad stood out

I'm actually surprised you never heard of open container laws. Always been that way.

Just recently, Ohio made it legal to take your opened bottle of wine home from restaurant. It must be re-corked, taped and placed in the trunk of the vehicle. Liquor, ehhh, that would be a hard "no".

i swear our country has some of the dumbest laws ever.

Mainly this. Overreaction crew in full force. Who cares if he got a speeding ticket.

Part of the story the NFL will look into is Hunt telling the officer that he would not pass a drug test at that point in time.

Now do the one where Baker Mayfield kicked a woman and got suspended for eight games.

If this was Hunt's first incident I would have no problem. It was not his first incident.

I just moved to STL, in one of the few states where open container is allowed. Everyone except the driver can drink freely. Hell, the underage law is so vague, especially since it allows parental permission, that juveniles practically have to caught in possession, while intoxicated, for anything to stick.

Strangely, MO has had a 66% reduction in DUI related fatalities since 2000.

I have this strange fantasy that the world will figure out the effects of prohibition before I die, just so I can say "told you so".

Yep. But this is actually where I have the biggest beef. Regardless of Hunt's utter stupidity.

How is it okay for someone to be free of any charges at a criminal level but then thrown to the wolves in the court of public opinion?

Should someone possibly lose their occupation and livelihood, risk fines and future employment... When an officer had already determined that the pettiness deserved no criminal repercussion?

I'm not blaming the officer, because I don't think the video release is on him, nor that he intended any harm in his "off the record" style discussion, but the result is some straight-up BS. There were exchanges like, "you have my word" that preceded a candid discussion after he informed Hill of the charges... and then Hunt admitting that he had been using marijuana "in the off-season".

Isn't someone's privacy being impinged on here?

If we don't resign him I'm OK with that.

Looks like most have forgotten about Chubb's history concerning injuries...

People have mentioned this before, but I've only seen one major injury back in 2015.

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/nick-chubb/9980

If there are others, I'm happy to be corrected.

What bothers me the most about this incident is hearing Hunt talk while in the cruiser. He doesn't sound like a 24 year old man. He sounds like a weak minded teen. What sets him off??? It's not a loved one who died, it's not a spouse leaving him, or cheating on him. It's not a sick kid, it's not poverty, it's not him finding out he is sick (ALS, cancer, MS, heart attack, etc, etc, etc) It's him being upset because he won't be playing in the Super Bowl.

I hope the kid gets the help he needs, because he sounds like he is ready to crash and burn

Like I said, I wouldn't cut him, it's a bump in the road. However, people on second chances can't keep hitting bumps in the road. Each bump makes it harder and harder to trust the person.

I might even use this scare as a way to get him signed to a 3 year deal. A deal well below what he could have been making, but one he might just take.

Give him a moderate signing bonus up front...he may need the money. Then structure things so he gets a season ending bonus to be paid after the final game, regular season or playoff. He gets the money if he has stayed out of trouble.

That way he has incentive to not be a egghead and we have protection if he does something stupid.

If you consider the options for Hunt, in my opinion the best case scenario is to tender him and hope someone signs him. We are never going to sign him to a long term contract. Those who hope for this are being unrealistic.

I don't believe Hunt will be here past next season. A draft pick is of much better value to us than Hunt. If no one signs the tendered Hunt, we could still see a draft pick via compensatory picks after next season.

I would be shocked if we don't tender him. And I would be shocked if a plethora of fans don't get upset when we don't re-sign him.

I think we could sign him, but agree that if we don't, the moneyballers heads will explode. They will see that as proof we are ripping it up again.

Imagine the uproar if we do nothing and we just allow Hunt to walk.

Agreed. I think the chances of that happening were better a few days ago than today, obviously. But still, it could happen. A team might be ok with taking a risk at a certain level. Maybe it is a 3rd, perhaps a coach/FO on the hot seat might risk a 2nd if they need a feature back.

I would have thought a second round tender would have been a serious option for the Browns. Not so sure anymore.

I am not sure I would like that option. Knowing how we like picks, I don't see us doing that hoping we get a compensatory pick. We may not get any. By all accounts we are going to try to fill some positions in free agency. Put a low round tender on him. If someone wants to sign him, we get a decent pick. I can live with that as well.

I wasn't watching the game that Chubb was injured in but I did see replays of the injury. Some referred to Chubbs injury as the worst knee injury they had seen...






The smart call would be to sign Hunt as quality, proven depth.

The not so smart call would be to pretend that Chubb had never, ever suffered a devastating knee injury in 2015.

If the Browns #1 concern is winning they sign Hunt.

Yes. I am aware of that injury. Thats the one I was referring to in 2015. I'm asking for the history of injuries people keep referring to. Because after the 2015 injury, he played in 28 games in 2016 & 2017 (which I'm pretty sure was every game possible) and can't see anything significant about him being injured again at Georgia. Even prior to the 2015 injury, I believe he played in every game in 2014. He has played in all games as a Brown.

When people refer to a "history of injuries" I would hope they are referring to a timeline of consistent injury problems (sometimes to the same area of the body, but not always) that leads to the player missing games over and over again.

I can't find anything.

I wish you hadn't posted that video which freezes on the actual incident.

I happen to believe that Browns fans are most informed fans in the NFL..but reading through this thread, it seemed as if some fans either never knew what happened to Chubb or they just didn't think of the injury as being what it was..one of the worst knee injuries ever seen.

The Browns front office can make the smart move and sign Hunt to insure the Browns running game remains strong...or they can be not so smart and pretend like they never knew such a situation could become reality.

...Browns choice!

I'd be curious what you read in this thread that makes you think fans aren't aware of Chubb's injury. I don't get that impression at all.

Injuries could happen to anyone at any time. Looking around the league, there must be 32 not smart teams because I don't see too many with 2 top 10 running backs. Do you?

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but the "big deal" here is not the speeding (whatever), it's not the open container (stupid, but it was in the back and the cop even said Hunt seemed GTG in terms of not being impaired.

Even all those things together are not a big deal, in that nothing much will happen from it.

The big deal is the video that shows him pleading with the officer because he knows he'll get tested (for weed), and when he does he'll fail.

That's the big deal.

I didn't notice anyone else bring up the subject of Chubb's injury history in this thread. I might have missed it but at least everyone has a better view of reality now.

I certainly understand how rare it is for a franchise to be such a strong position at RB. I wouldn't want to see the Browns blow their opportunity to make the team stronger.

Well, from what I gather, the % of games missed in the following seasons (college and Pro) after the injury is 0% and the % of college games missed before the injury is also 0%, so maybe people think there are other considerations to think about when it comes to Kareem Hunt's situation than Nick Chubb's 2015 injury (singular) and not his "history of injuries" people keep projecting.

It's the NFL and players will continue to get injured. Some more serious than others. I'm more concerned with players who repeatedly get injured. So far, that's not Nick Chubb from the information I've found.

So instead of injury prone, you're saying he's due....

If it was just weed and he's only smoking in the off-season, I'm not sure if it really affects the decision. Hopefully the NFL stops testing for it after the CBA gets redone and we can stop bringing it up.

The team he's supposed to be on is going to the Super Bowl. He's understandably upset with himself. While I would prefer he dealt with his disappointment in another manner, I imagine he's not the only football player to be doing so.

Precisely!

I can agree. That would work until Chubb and others need to be signed. If Hunt is seeking 35 mil, we couldn't sign Chubb to a similar contract. There would be too much money locked up in the one position.

I think the best bet for this year is to tender him, maybe even higher than I said earlier. Maybe 2nd round. If somebody wants to sign him and give up a 2nd rounder, so be it. If he stays, we will have a better idea of exactly how a 2 headed monster at running back might work.

If we can sign him to a smart contract, do that as well. My feeling is hunt wants to get paid, and I can't say I blame him. His suspension and now this little bump make the whole process cloudy.

At some point someone somewhere is going to administer a test. We'll see what happens next. I'd be faintly surprised if the Browns haven't already called him in..

Why wouldn't people be in an uproar over stupidity?

I've seen some of your crew raise hell for much less.

Everyone was aware of his injury. That was part of the concern on draft day... Not that he hadn't recovered, whether we had seen enough to know that he would actually return completely to form.

ALL questions were answered on a 92 yd run when he dusted the field with defenders.

There is nothing during that kind of devastating injury that indicates a player may be "injury prone".

My bet is that Hunt's going to get an original round tender (he was drafted in the third round) or nothing. I doubt anyone gives up a third round pick for a player with such an uncertain future.

I've said it a bunch of times. The Texans gave up a third round pick for Duke Johnson (Duke Johnson is not as good as Kareem Hunt). Prior to that the most a team gave up for a running back was the first we got for Trent Richardson. The Texans are not a smart team, they basically mortgaged their future for one year and they were the team willing to give up a third round pick.

The Dolphins got a sixth round pick for Kenyan Drake. The Bears got a sixth round pick for Jordan Howard. There is no way we get much more than that for Hunt (and it would have to be a complicated sign and trade).

j/c

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that Hunt is tested and fails the test for marijuana. A first time offense for the NFL substance abuse policy isn't of serious consequence.

The question becomes would the NFL consider it his first offense of that policy? In the incident at The 9, the NFL ordered part of his requirements to get back into the league was alcohol abuse counseling. So that begs the question would this be his first, or second infraction of the substance abuse policy?

To me that's the biggest question as to what his value is on the open market at this point should the Browns decide to tender him.

My guess is that Hunt's most recent incident, if he's tested, would not be his first positive the test. And even if it was he has shown an erratic pattern of behavior. Teams aren't going to give up much for someone in his situation. There are some teams that just won't have him at all, so that already limits his market.

(Not to mention the PR backlash from the original kicking video.)

Do you have anything that states he's ever violated the league's substance abuse policy before? Not saying he hasn't, but after searching the only thing I can find to even suggest that is the incident at The 9 I mentioned above.

No. I'm just guessing. Either way between the weed and violence issues Hunt is on thin ice.

I wonder if the NFL ties this incident (open container) to the alcohol abuse clause of his previous suspension. They've certainly done crazier things.


Regardless, he isn't hurting the Browns at all. He's on a super-minimum contract, and his actions really only made it easier for us to keep him on the cheap. This only becomes worthy of thought and effort when we have to sit down and figure out the contract (if any) that we want to give him, and that's at least a year away.

I thought that is why you led your post with "My guess".

What would be stupid?

This oughta be good....

Doing nothing and allowing him to walk and getting nothing would be colossally stupid and fully deserving of any uproar.

Oh. So kinda like when we released Josh Gordon and got nothing.

Didn't we trade him to the Patriots?

(The answer is yes.)

Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but how is giving up a 3rd round pick mortgaging your future?

Uhhh... exactly??

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2471...leveland-browns

Full disclosure: I didn't want Hunt on the team in the first place.

With these troubled players my stance is always to hold on to them because you don't have to pay for them while they are suspended anyway (unless they do something egregious).

We're not getting anything for Hunt. At that point we might as well hold on to him and let him create value for us on the field. At that point he is a free agent and you let him leave.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new front office makes an example out of him to show they are not taking on any of the character risks of the past.

It isn't. Sorry if it came off wrong. I thought people would remember that they also made the Tunsil trade.

From what I understand, the leagues doesn't state what stage guys are on the program, you just have to figure it out based on their suspension length and kind of guess what stage they are in.

This site breaks each stage down pretty well.

https://sportdfw.com/2016/05/10/the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-breaking-it-down/

I also saw here https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875478-breaking-down-how-the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-works

which I found interesting:

The "Substances of Abuse" document also covers alcohol. While it is certainly OK for men past 21 to imbibe whatever alcoholic beverages they choose, the policy maintains procedures for players who have abused the substance in the past. it provides avenues for treatment and counseling, and mandates sobriety for said players. It is on of the many areas where a player who wants to be in the NFL must live under a policy some other "normal" people might not have because he's playing for a multibillion dollar company"

So its possible based on that above, he is in the abuse program with the 9 incident, as alcohol was involved.

JC

In light of recent events, I'm legit concerned with Hunt. As far as "Hunt, the person" goes... I don't get the open bottle of Vodka on the way to the airport. You can't convince me that he's so dumb that he doesn't know that it can't go on an airplane. So why would you even take it unless you plan on slamming it before you get on the plane? Not a good look for someone who's every problem has revolved around alcohol. As far as "Hunt, the asset" - The admittance of smoking and possession of MJ puts him firmly on the "watch list". Between the MJ and open container, his perceived value is now significantly damaged.

Now other teams can clearly see some of the cards on the table, and look (and negotiate) beyond his talent alone. Hunt is clearly not out of the woods as far as his "issues" are concerned.

Those behind closed doors probably have a pretty clear picture of the likelihood of him staying on the straight and narrow... That will determine the risk/ reward of signing him to a contract. If the "issues" don't warrant a contract, he's a rental with the upside of a pick in return.

I'd probably put the 2nd round tender on him, if teams want no negotiate his rights, I'll get a 3rd in next year's and another pick in the future. If someone signs him to an offer sheet, I'll take my adequate comp and call it a day.

Gotcha!

that's makes more sense. I think though if I may answer - at some point, you have to take your shot.

The have a solid defense, a young QB on his rookie deal still, and IMO the best WR in the league. You cant always play for tomorrow. At some point you have to try and win today. When that point is there - you do what you can. Tunsil is a very young OL, with high ceiling that is playing a pretty level right now. You have a franchise QB who was injured previously, and your OL was your biggest weakness. I would have made the trade in a heartbeat, and honestly - I wish we had made it at the time.

Emmit Golden had a great segment yesterday about this.

Everyone knows hunts past. The league is watching you, media is watching you, etc. LITERALLY everyone is trying to pull for you to better yourself. HOW STUPID are you that 1. not only were you speeding, you were speeding with weed, and an open bottle in the car? Its like a triple whammy of idiot-ness.

I mean, if you gonna drink and smoke - which he shouldn't be doing. WTH are you doing it in a car, and even worse why are you speeding?!

Wish I had an answer bro. It's like drug-runners always getting pulled over for speeding, or a taillight out, expired plates, etc... Just can't fix stupid when it's that stupid.

I think PPE cleared this up already. That and your whole "We got nothing for Gordon" comment.

I mean we even got a something for Gordon. You're not suggesting the new powers that be should just let Hunt go for free now are you? Yeah, that would be stupid.

Not only that, but Hunt has a growing list of off-field incidents:

Jan. 2018: Fight in a nigthclub in KC
Feb. 2018: Assaults female at The 9.
June 2018: Fight at bar in Put-in-Bay

All three of these incidents were considered when NFL announced his suspension.

Dec 2018: Kareem Hunt undergoes treatment and counseling for alcohol and anger management

June 2019: Hunt gets in argument in Cleveland bar, police called no arrests made.

Jan: 2020: Hunt pulled over speeding, admits he'd fail a drug test, has an open bottle of vodka in his back pack, small amount of weed found, only speeding ticket issued.

I was surprised he didn't screw up and was able to play any games this past season. It's only a matter of time before he screw up again. The pattern is there.

I'm guessing an original round tender or they let him walk if they hear the NFL has tested him and a suspension will be forthcoming.

The new group will likely want to set an example as to the culture they are trying to instill. They won't want to give him any deal they can't easily walk away from, if any at all, and will not want to give Hunt an opportunity to make them look foolish for giving him another chance.

In the end, this all on Hunt and the choices he's made.

That's pretty telling. If I had to guess - he is absolutely in the program, ESPECIALLY when he said in the video to the cop "ive passed all my drug test in the NFL". To me, I hear that and it says hes in the stage 3 part since they are testing him and a failed test will be a year long ban.

I lean the same way, a year long ban would not surprise with another violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy. Especially, given it was all three incidents that were used to determine his 8 game suspension as part of violating the NFL's personal conduct policy.

The personal conduct policy and the substance abuse policy are not the same. They can not change a failed drug test into the personal conduct policy.

And every player gets drug tested. Funny enough, that testing period begins on 4/20. So the fact Hunt says he has passed all of his drug tests means nothing.

Although I agree with everything you said, doesn't Goodell just make up the rules as he goes?

You are right. A trade to move up 70 spots or so. No additional assets. It's something I guess.

Trading up 70 spots is better than nothing.

But I wouldn't blame the front office for Hunt's antics.

i think if last year proved anything, this team has enough issues with discipline and distractions and doing things that help and not hurt team. Love hunt, was stoked to get him and he was fun to watch, but we can't deal with this kind of nonsense. Your best ability is availability

Who said he wouldn't be available?

True, but you have to think there will be something done by nfl, and its foolish to think not even a month after season he's doing dumb stuff, who thinks he's going to last until September without doing more. Risk/reward. Not my call obviously. I'd love to have his talent, but I totally understand them not wanting the possibility of a distraction or unavailability

Regardless of a failed drug test, Goodell can absolutely use this incident, if he chooses, as a violation under the NFL personal conduct policy.

It's really up to Goodell.

How the policy reads:

Expectations and Standards of Conduct

It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. We are all held to a higher standard and must conduct ourselves in a way that is responsible, promotes the values of the NFL, and is lawful.

Players convicted of a crime or subject to a disposition of a criminal proceeding (as defined in this Policy) are subject to discipline. But even if the conduct does not result in a criminal conviction, players found to have engaged in any of the following conduct will be subject to discipline. Prohibited conduct includes but is not limited to the following:

* Actual or threatened physical violence against another person, including dating violence, domestic violence, child abuse, and other forms of family violence;

* Assault and/or battery, including sexual assault or other sex offenses;

* Violent or threatening behavior toward another employee or a third party in any workplace
setting;

* Stalking, harassment, or similar forms of intimidation;

* Illegal possession of a gun or other weapon (such as explosives, toxic substances, and the like), or possession of a gun or other weapon in any workplace setting;

* Illegal possession, use, or distribution of alcohol or drugs;

* Possession, use, or distribution of steroids or other performance enhancing substances;

* Crimes involving cruelty to animals as defined by state or federal law;

* Crimes of dishonesty such as blackmail, extortion, fraud, money laundering, or racketeering;

* Theft-related crimes such as burglary, robbery, or larceny;

* Disorderly conduct;

*Crimes against law enforcement, such as obstruction, resisting arrest, or harming a police officer or other law enforcement officer;

*Conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person; and

* Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.

We'll see what Goodell decides to do, if anything at all, but he certainly has a lot of latitude.

My thing really isn't about whether we keep him or get rid of him. The point to me is he still holds at least some value. Releasing him and getting nothing in return is what I don't want to see happen. Considering the circumstances, if he doesn't get suspended and we don't have to spend much to keep him, the juice is worth the squeeze.

Give Hunt an original round tender.

As it stands today he has a speeding ticket.

More to follow depending upon what the League decides.

On the field he is a talent. Off the field a knucklehead.

This latest episode is a clear indicator he doesn't get it.

You don't invest in players like that.

Totally agree. That doesn't mean you panic trade two first round picks and a second round pick for an above-average left tackle with some upside.



Imagine not having a first round pick this year or next year because we have Laremy Tunsil instead. If you're giving up that much for an offensive linemen you better be getting a slam dunk all-pro.

Noted and placed in everybody's memory so you can live with the results of his career either way.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/sex-and-drugs-scandal-threatens-to-engulf-cowboy-1304939.html

Sex and drugs scandal threatens to engulf Cowboy



it's like... it's always been like this. Except TMZ is leaking this stuff whereas before, everyone looked the other way.




and there is this
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2858...idates-new-deal

Hill joined the Chiefs as a fifth-round draft pick in 2016, eight months after he pleaded guilty in Oklahoma to punching and choking his pregnant girlfriend while he was in college. In April 2019, an audiotape surfaced of Hill and his then-fiancée discussing how their son received injuries and whether they might have been caused by Hill.

The Johnson County (Kansas) District Attorney's Office investigated Hill but declined to press charges.

During training camp, Hunt said Hill had things to prove to the Chiefs before he received the contract extension. The Chiefs and Hill then agreed to a three-year, $54 million extension shortly before the season.

This is what I'm saying I would do as well. It's possible a team would give up a 3rd for him. When no one does, it's possible we sign him for a one year contract based off his tender. It's also entirely plausible we get NOTHING for him outside of another year of play... and I don't think it's stupid or a colossal mistake.

At this point we're probably going to see a compensatory pick next year. Or we may not.

The Browns 2020 success is not reliant on Hunt being here.

I like what Hunt brings to the team .. love the options. I think a second round tender would be best .. would like to keep him, but if not, want something more than a flyer for him.

How many rookie RBs run for 1300 yds plus?

Depending on how much the Browns are going to rely on their running attack, Hunt's value to the Browns could go from 1 to 100 if Chubb is lost for the season due to injury.

The Browns front office can be smart...or they can be "not so smart"...the choice is theirs.

I don't agree that moving on from Hunt is a "not so smart" move.

I would guess barring some major happenings that Hunt won't be here past next season. If you can get something now, get it.

You realize we are going to draft an OL this year with our pick right? You realize that the OL we draft might not be anywhere near as good as Tunsil, right?

I bet the Steelers are pretty happy about trading their 1st for Fitzpatrick right about now.

What about our second round pick and our first round pick next year? How many more wins does Tunsil bring instead of Greg Robinson?

How many wins did Joe Thomas bring us?

https://tinyurl.com/vncfn6x

So let me get this straight..... You ask a rhetorical question that has no real answer. Then when you get the same thing in return you point the finger at them? Brilliant!

Mine wasn't a rhetorical question. Nice try though!

Then give us the answer?



There. Since you actually have an answer, tell us what that answer is and how you arrive at your conclusion?

See, we had one of, if not the best LT in the NFL and the W/L column didn't change much. We do have better talent now and having a better LT should certainly help. However, if you think you can quantify that in the W/L column, you're wrong.

But hey, have at it.

At least 1, imo. If he didn't get kicked out of the Titans game, we might've kept the offense going a little longer and eeked out a win.

At least 1, imo. If he didn't get kicked out of the Titans game, we might've kept the offense going a little longer and eeked out a win. [/quote]

The more I think about Robinson's performance in that game, the more I wonder "what more could an OL do to INTENTIONALLY throw the game." Didn't he have a lot of motion penalties too?

All of them.

Well, although that can clearly not be answered - we can try to see how many games ended via sack or pressured throw from Baker on that side. You also clearly sidestepped the fact that we are using the 1st this year by all accounts on a OT anyway.

How many wins has stockpiling picks won us? do you think our W/L total over/under goes up or down if Baker is injured and our backup has to play?

Your taking into consideration the entire roster in the scenario. Our biggest need and weakness on offense is OT. Coming into this season we had HIGH hopes of a SB, wrongly so - but we did.

You see, it seems some fans would rather save for a team we will never have, while others would rather build and play to win each game.

With the talent we have on this roster, we are a WIN NOW team. When you have a WIN NOW team, you do everything you can to sure up holes - even if its trading a little of the future.

I'd bet they are thinking it'd be nice to have the pick for a QB about now. They undoubtedly are pleased with what they got from Fitzpatrick, but if you don't have a QB, your team is cooked. It's draft season, the focus is different.

If Ben doesn't bounce back, they might be kicking themselves. Especially if they are just good enough to miss out on the top QBs in the 2021 draft.

We may trade. Maybe up, maybe down, but trades aside, we are going to be building on what we have.

That doesn't mean we might drop a player or two you like or someone else likes.

I don't think Dorsey was going to try to sign Joe Shobert as an example. This past season would have been the ideal time
to do that.

It happens all the time when things change at the top. I mean every time, this isn't going to be any different except it won't be as severe as we undertook when Sashi was here. The goal then was to accumulate draft picks. That isn't the case in total right now.

Belicheck has accumulated draft picks for a long time, so I think that factors in to the metric Depo might suggest. It makes sense to trade down a little to add something later in the draft or for next year. Not to give up the player you love...if you have 3-4 players you like and would be happy with any. I would always welcome that. We aren't going to go from #10 to #26 simply for picks next year because we are in a win now mode. A player we think can help this year would have to be involved. At least that is my opinion.

Too many fan emotions involved right now. I get it, I am a fan too. The sky isn't falling. We have a pretty good team who underachieved last year. We do have several holes that need to be addressed and we don't have six #1 picks, so we can probably only address 2 with pretty sure starters...draft wise...FA could lower that number, and I hope it does....it better. We counted on Corbett to be a mauler guard. He wasn't. We counted on Tikitiki to be a monster like we expected Beau Bell or Wali Rainer to be great players. Sorry, didn't work.

That isn't a knock on Dorsey. Ok, the top of the 2nd pick needed to be a do over....the others, your throwing darts for the most part after round 3-4.

Even the first round guys can be subjective. Gerrard Warren is a prime example. I think we picked him 3rd overall. No, we wasn't the next Warren Sapp, but he did play maybe 15 years, starting for 3-4 teams, and I think made a few pro-bowls..I could be wrong on that. He was a solid player, but sure, he was a bust if you were expecting the next Merlin Oleson, Bob Lilly, or Mean Joe.

Sure, I hoped he would be as good as the local kid, Reggie White, but he was still a good player.

Teams have to get at minimum good NFL players with the first 3 picks. After that, it a bonus. You can usually tell a player is going to be good. It's rare you can tell how good. Bo Jacksons as an example don't show up every day.

I highly doubt that.

With literally their 3rd and 4th string qbs playing - they were able to go 8-8 and be fighting for the playoffs. In fact, if not for a Ju Ju fumble, and Connor getting hurt, I think they run away with the wild card spot even with that.

I would also argue, they could pick up any QB in FA this year for a backup and still be setup to make a playoff run with their defense.

Im not downplaying the QB role, but their defense this year was special, and there is no reason to expect that not to continue.

And Ben likes the attention, I fully expect him to be fine going into the season - he loves to play injuries to make him look better.

Point being - there is not a single person upset about trading their 1 for Fitzpatrick, especially seeing that they were what 0-3 when they traded for him, and finished 8-8.

special???

what about it? Pitts def was very very good, and they are probably only going to get better, as they are young.

If they can keep everyone. Which will be hard if they go the free agency route at QB. I'm under the impression they've been pretty tight against the cap, so might be tough irrespective of what they do at QB. I hadn't really considered a Mariota as the next Tannehill in Pittsburgh scenario, or something along those lines, which I suppose could potentially work.

This is partly true. Joe did more than his fair share, he did not deserve to have a whole career and never even make the playoffs, much less the Super Bowl. However, the rest of the team had to put in some effort, which isn't saying much since the Browns didn't win very much while Joe was here .

On the flip side, I do believe if Joe ws never here, we probably would not have won as many games. I do believe he was that special to the OL and team.

As for Hunt, I love his talent, but if he's going to be another Josh Gordon type, then I say trade him and get someting before you're forced to let him go and get nothing. I hope there's a way we keep him and continue getting solid use out of him and that he doesn't do any more stupd stuff but that's generally rooting for hope against hope. Aside from his running ability, I like his pass catching ability. It will be a shame if he goes and especially if we get nothing.

Dorsey obviously failed in not trading for Tunsil then. . .

Who said I have an answer? Do people only ask questions when they already have the answer? That'd be weird.

I'd rather have long term, sustainable success instead of one peak year and lose in the first round of the playoffs. Trading a bunch of first round picks for non-QBs just doesn't seem wise if that is the goal. If you disagree with me that's fine.

Unfortunately, win now teams rarely win anything, especially the Super Bowl.

yes, he did. Dorsey failed miserably when came to the OL, do you have a different opinion of our OL?

Is that right? Because I have heard you and others say that for 20 years, and each year its the same thing "oohhhhhhh we need those picks for our future!" yet the future never came. Its here now. Now is our future. Its time to win now. WE have lost for 20 freakin years dude, ill trade a playoff for a future is more despair.

Pretty sure that KC is a win now team, as is San Fran. Are they stockpiling picks for the future? Or did they use their draft capital on players and bring in a QB to run their team?

We thought it was "here now" last year and how did that go? I agree that you should be all in to an extent (trading a first round pick for OBJ for example) but to trade away two first round picks (and a second round pick) to "fix" one non-QB position? No thanks.

LT is one of the most important positions in football - don't be obtuse.

who would you rather be right now today, the Texans or the Browns?

Unlike a lot of the red flag guys we've had here, Hunt at least seems to have good "football character."

We might have to assign him a babysitter/chauffeur, but he's not quite the same distraction as past guys have been, and with Chubb available we're not really relying on him.

If reporters weren't asking about this, they'd be asking about something else. If it had been during the season, I'd probably see it more harshly.

Isn't that what we did and we still sucked? Jarvis Landry? OBJ? Olivier Vernon? Tyrod Taylor? Damarious Randall?

The Chiefs made trade to improve their team on the fringes. They built around Patrick Mahomes. They also have Andy Reid who instilled a great culture in the organization.

The 49ers have built a great culture. They have a genius coach. They, somehow, only gave up a second round pick for Garoppolo.

Not once has either team gone "all in" like the Texans did for Laremy Tunsil.

Game wins?
Probably absolutely impossible to give a real answer to.

Drive wins?
As in drives that don't get killed by that spot committing stupid penalties or giving up sacks/hurries/pressures?
That should be more decipherable, and I'd bet the average to be one or two fewer drives killed by that position per game.... and that's pretty huge, especially when you then figure in the improvement in run blocking you could expect to go with it which brings a compounding effectiveness to the offense as a whole. So, theoretically, the difference could have been rather significant.

Add in the ejection in Game 1 that led to a shuffling of the OLine that completely ruined us in the second half of that game, and then the benching during the Bye Week, etc... and the impact of a player that WOULDN'T have had those issues is a lot larger.


Of course, we'd still get killed by Hubbard or a WR not knowing how to see if they're on the line or not, but that's another story altogether.


Also, after going through and writing all of that, there's this to balance it all out: No Offensive Tackle had more penalties in 2019 than Laremy Tunsil with 17 (usually False Start on 1st or 2nd down), lol!

I didn't say left tackle was unimportant.

Do I get to take Haslam out of the equation? If so, Browns. Not close.

Those teams have been building through the draft for several years. I remember the Eagles back in 2012 or around then, bringing in Vick and a bunch of FA's, to win now, and it failed badly. Most teams that win SB's are built through the draft, yes they do sprinkle their rosters with a few FA's but it just seems that when the Browns try it always fails. I certainly don't have any faith in the analytic guys to get it done. Dorsey wasn't given a good chance, because we have a dumbass owner.

KC did survive a few weeks with Cam Erving playing there, though.

I would bet there are more than most think. It wasn't enough to make a major difference in the fate of the Browns, but I'm pretty sure there were plenty of games we would have lost if not for Thomas.

Absolutely. Being able to just put your left tackle on a great right edge rusher, without help, play in and play out is a big advantage.

Quarterback play and coaching left something to be desired during most of his time here, among other problems.

I like a solid offensive line, all five players. Having a player like Joe Thomas is great, but all he could do is block one guy. If you have him, great, if not then don't chase it.. that kind of thinking that you have to go all in for a left tackle leads to things like the Texans outrageous overpay for Tunsil. Be solid across the line, have good depth, and coach the unit up. Maybe a little easier said than done.

And you make a solid point. Overpaying for a single position on the OL like the Texans did for Tunsil takes away assets that could be used for other critical areas of the team.

As was pointed out Tunsil committed more penalties than any other LT in the league. Joe Thomas was a guy who fell into our laps. A great LT chosen with a single draft pick. The notion you give up two first round picks to solve your LT position in the draft or via trade as has been suggested isn't a reasonable option.

The LT position is critical. I've even seen people who consider the interior of the OL as important these days. As if the pressure a QB can see is somehow as dangerous as the pressure he can't see. As if edge rushers aren't something the NFL pays a huge premium for and aren't the biggest pass rushing threats in the league. No, LT is still the most single important position on the OL and the salary it demands is proof of that compared to the pay of interior linemen.

But as has also been proven by the responses, nobody can actually quantify how many more games you can win with a good LT.