DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Highsmith and Wolf Are Out

Ah, but I didn't say that. I said "the 1-31 guys". Our freshly minted 32 year old GM is included in that. But you do have a point. Haslam is the one who has been running this rudderless ship.



He might be. He also might understand you need a balance to run a team and that things here are tilted heavily in one direction. I mean his son was on the inside of everything that's gone on here. None of us are. We have guesses and theories. They have first hand information.



There's nothing "perfect" about this situation. Once again your making assumptions based on little to no evidence as I've seen you do many times when you want to paint a huge light into a dark room. But let's not pretend it's any more than that.

Panic? Why would I panic? We've both seen this same failing BS time after time for 20 years now. The difference between us I would say is a simple one. Once I've seen the same movie six or seven times, I know how it ends. You keep expecting the same movie to end differently no matter how many times you've seen it.

Oh I'm not saying Baker sucks. But to proclaim him as some great franchise QB at this point is certainly premature.

Agreed.
He has tons of promise, but he needs to step up his game.

You twisted everything I said.

Forget it. I am happy, and as long as I am happy, I don't care about the ones who aren't.

Yet when Freddie took over as OC Baker looked very good and we went 5-3. It's actually the best he has ever looked in the NFL.



That seems like an odd comment to me. Dalton actually stunk it up so badly last year he was benched for a very poor back-up QB. Afterwords it was musical chairs from the back-up, back to Dalton towards the end of the season.



Freddie the HC I agree. Freddie the OC seemed to get the most out of Baker.



We all certainly hope so.



We certainly saw that potential with Freddie as the OC.



I'm in the wait and see mode as well. I'm just trying to provide a little balance and facts that those who are farting flowers and rainbows won't.

Giving on opposing opinion isn't twisting anything.

We have balance. We have footall guys at GM and head coach, and both agree with an analytic approach.

Is Berry a football guy? Is Stefanski? Those are the two decision makers. Everybody else is in a supporting role.

I guess that depends on who you listen to. Some of the Sashiites seem to think analytics has now taken over. Wolf, who actually worked inside the building seems to feel the same way. I guess I have to ask, if the objective is to have everyone on the same page, why is it you see Berry as a "football guy"?

I mean isn't a 32 year old guy that may very well lean more on analytics than almost anyone else they could have hired at the position? I'm just not sure how you are reaching your conclusions.

It seems both Wolf and Paton saw something that made both of them very uncomfortable. For some reason I can't imagine balance being the issue.

Ron Wolf was the Tampa Bay Buccaneers vice president of football operations from 1976 to 1978. Their record in that time period? 7-37. He resigned and then took the GM position with the Green Bay Packers where he built his Hall of Fame resume.

Andrew Berry was the Cleveland Browns vice president of player personnel from 2016 to 2018. Their record in that time period? 8-39-1.

As the OC, Freddie asked the players about plays they liked and adjusted to that.

As the HC, Freddie was Dorsey's "Yes man." If the players didn't like it, tough.

Freddie was calling plays they hadn't even practiced that week, so it seems basically impossible that they were plays the players "liked."

It appears to me that Freddie changed for the worse with added responsibility, pressure and Dorsey dictating things like, imho, taking on Monken and who to play.

It sounds like Stefanski can handle the pressure and Berry will be more collaborative than Dorsey. Now they have to prove it.

Zampese was the reason Baker looked better in his reads and mechanics in 2018 not Freddie. People forget the biggest change was the QB coach, OC/playcaller stayed same. You replaced a pretty good Qb coach that had plenty of experience with a guy that should be parking cars. Baker is in a much better situation this year from a coaching standpoint and believers in mechanics..he's not going to be able to reject broom sweepers this year, and rightfully so, he looked like a bust last year. If baker struggles this year in a QB friendly offense like Kubiak/shanahan, then its def. his issue. I mean Kirk Cousins looked good in it. If we get woods as DC, I like this staff alot more than I did last years. This year's staff is built with experienced guys to support the HC, and hopefully in contrast of last year, this HC allows himself to be helped.

I think most pro-Sashi people think analytics are a tool you should use in conjunction with football experience.

Dorsey thought analytics were something that were a pain in his behind and should be buried in a deep, dark hole (his trash can.)

Wolf and Paton weren't willing to change. No more, no less.

At least we now know who that fly on the wall was ... *L* ...

If Paton didn’t believe in analytics we wouldn’t have brought him back for a second interview ... why is the word we wanted to keep Wolf if he was so opposed to analytics ...

And u have no clue what KJ thought of analytics ..... I don’t understand why everyone is so dismayed with KJ ... MIS PLACED ANGER ...

Ron Wolf thinks analytics are out of control.

I'd say Ron Wolf's Tampa Bay Buccaneers that started out 0-26 were out of control!

I also think when he emphatically told Randy Lerner he needs to hire Mike Holmgren to turn the Browns around, Ron was out of control!

I think his ten division titles and three SB rings dictate otherwise.

I never knew so many of these dawgs lived on one way streets ...

Good thing Ron was given a second chance and wasn't labeled 'Mr. 0 and 26'

Who is it we're giving a second chance that has done their job at that position in the past ten years?

I've covered the Baker thing plenty. He had an off year, but yes, I believe he's a franchise quarterback and he'll be fine.

Dorsey was pretty bad. If you think otherwise, congrats.

I actually look at football rosters. I also watch QB play.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding, are you arguing that John Dorsey was good and Baker is bad in the same post? Both of those things cannot be true.

Football Guy.

I'm saying the jury is still out on Baker and those suggesting otherwise aren't being realistic about that. I'm also saying that Dorsey built a roster that caused almost every Browns fan to believe we would be in contention to win the division last year until Freddie stunk it up as HC.

And now they're trying to rewrite history.

We liked Paton and Wolf, but they weren't willing to adapt to the structure ("change") that the guy who would have been employing them wanted. They walked away. I'm not putting a good, bad, or indifferent label to it.

Dorsey's frequent derogatory use of the word nerds and his repeatedly saying they didn't bring in "real football players" makes Dorsey's opinion pretty clear to me. I suppose the binder in the trash can story isn't something I saw firsthand, but it seems to fit his public persona and stories that came out about his time in KC.

It's more resigned disgust than anger. If he could have set his ego aside, Dorsey was a good scout. People calling him King probably didn't help.

Yeah, Aaron Rodgers has decided that he thinks he should be making the coaching decisions in Green Bay. He's been doing that ever since McCarthy was there. They really should have kept Van Pelt in Green Bay. I mean it's not like they played in the NFC Championship game this year or anything.

Sashites....really....still leaning on that?


We had two problems....both Sashi and Hue.


Get over it man, why go back to talk 2-3 years in the past?

Let's agree they both sucked. Why not just leave it there?

Sashi made bad decision and Hue was inept a being a head coach. Sounds fair to me.

Its sashiettes .... ...

Because two of the top three in charge in the Sashi regime are back together? I mean let's face it, people wish to act as though they all worked independently of each other and somehow we're in a great situation now.



Oh they did. But have you been reading the board? Some still claim otherwise.

I don't claim that....don't talk to me about that.


If I had to take one over the other I would take Sashi over Hue simply because I felt Hue was the dividing factor.....but that is old.....time to stay current.

Currently two of the three powers that be during the sashi era are still here. As long as that situation exists it is current. It a part of the team going forward.

The least rotten of two apples is still a rotten apple.

What year did Tampa enter the NFL? Did they have free agency to help build the roster?

Don't cloud the record with more data!

Why do you keep saying 2 of 3? The top 2, Sashi and Hue are both gone.

Also, they're people, not apples. They weren't plucked off a tree. Berry's 32, he was and is still growing. They weren't permanently contaminated. Hue, maybe, at least until he's willing to learn from the experience and change.

Martin Mayhew is doing okay in San Francisco after having a similar role to what Berry had under Sashi while he (Mayhew) was in Detroit the year they went 0-16.

He just needs better players.

It wasn't the roster that made me believe we would be in contention to win the division, it was Baker. That was the reason EVERYONE felt that way. Amazingly enough, Baker had a down year and we struggled. And yes, Freddie stunk it up. That much we can agree on. But as for the rest of the roster? Dorsey did a really crappy job. He's gone, isn't he?

Feel free to continue to rewrite history...

That's why I discount your opinion on this matter. You aren't willing to give it a chance, but in the end, you have no choice.

We are back to where we should have been all along. I do understand that chaps some of you.

Last time Sashi wasn't the guy to be the lead. Hue wasn't a good coach who was never in step with the plan..

I think this time we have a good coach on board, and Berry is a highly respected "football guy". Depo is still solid support.

As has been said, there is no telling if it will work, but there is no telling that it won't. There is no reason why it can't.

All three of the main players played college football. They know what it is like to be a member of a college football team.

All three are Ivy grads, so all of them have a high degree if intelligence. I mean we can argue about intelligence, but seriously, you have to be a pretty bright person to graduate from a Ivy school. You have to be in a pretty high percentile to get in let alone graduate.

Our 2 main decision makers have vast NFL experience. Each has been in the league over 10 years. It's hard to say they don't have experience in the NFL game.

Depo doesn't have as much NFL experience, but I say that doesn't matter. The guy is at the top of his field in sports analytics.

Again my friend, it's not some Voodoo thing....it's just a process to gather and sort information. It's just a tool. It isn't the say all end all. We are still going to have scouts scouting and that will form the majority of our decisions.

It still takes boots on the ground to win wars. The drone pilots 500 miles away are great. They can provide a lot of great recon. Valuable info that saves life's but it still takes boots on the ground to get it done with the information they have.

Hue was not a part of the FO that purged talent. Somehow you have confused the coaching staff with the FO.



Berry has been gone for one year.



Mayhew is not the GM in San Fran. He wasn't given that much power.