DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns hire Andrew Berry as GM and EVP of football operations

I'd just like to add that Sashi never claimed or pretended to be a football guy. Probably why he didn't take the title of GM. Had he not died on the hill saving the team from Hue I would have expected that we would have brought a GM on board when it came to the build up phase.

I agree.

Sashi also told us all what he was doing and how it was going to go. He was spot on.

He also brought 9 bonafide starters (if you include Zane) and possibly more to the league from his drafts.

Sashi didn't fail. He lost out to a HC whom Haslam was told was one of the great coaches in the league by many around the NFL.

Everyone blamed Sashi but he wasn't the problem. Sashi took the blame like a man, was fired and wished us well.

I think Jimmy realizes where he made mistakes which is why I think we're back here with Depodesta, Berry, and a HC recommended to fit the "plan."

We aren't the same as 2016, but we have the same goals.

I knew you were a sharp guy. Glad to know you. Hope to see you at a game next year.

I still maintain that I think Jimmy doesn't want to be as hands on as he has been. I do think part of the problem is that he has had a tendency to shortcut the process. Which I get I suppose. If he really is the marketing guy his critics accuse him of being, it makes more sense. The process is asking him as a marketing guy to be patient while the brand took a huge hit for a couple of seasons. That has to go against every instinct of marketing to go through that. But it's necessary because all the best marketing in the world is ultimately no good without a good product.

My feeling about this weekly meeting with Jimmy has less to do with Jimmy providing his own input and more an opportunity for 3 heads to show that they are acting in concert. I suspect that a lot of the infighting we've seen over the years was due to Jimmy giving all parties too much leash and too little oversight.

I'm right there with you.

I disagree with that. It has been reported that Jimmy has played people against each other since he bought the team. He has been a major factor in the dysfunctional nature of the team. He has shown no reason to expect that he has, or will change.

Reported? Can you post those? I'd like to read them.

Inside the Cleveland Browns front office, where hope and history collide
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2579...history-collide

Then, of course, Jimma tore up his ESPN deal, because he cannot stand anyone pointing out that he is an awful and inept owner ..... and, in fact, that he is the worst owner in major sports history, (winning percentage) even worse than #2 worst, The Cavaliers own Ted Stepien.

Now that they are taking a more analytical approach to managing the team look for them to make some surprise moves. For instance, they are not going to keep both Chubb and Hunt, look for one of them to be gone, probably Hunt.

I read the article you posted and there's only one part that comes close to being evidence of him pitting people against each other. The part where he asks the position coaches if the scouts are getting them the players they wanted and asking the scouts if the coaches are developing the players they got them. It doesn't say what he then did with those answers.

Nothing.

No mention of him going in to meetings and starting arguments between the 2 sides.

Buried in the article was a sentence that said most of the former employees agreed that each cleaning house was probably the right decision at the time on it's face.

Past that there isn't anything mentioned to support this notion that Jimmy has purposefully seeks to create conflict between key employees. There were sometimes where maybe he should have drawn some lines, but not enforcing boundaries is not the same thing as being a snake and fomenting discontent.

This article DOES show a guy who has a difficult time being patient through a lengthy process but does have a genuine interest in learning. If nothing else the article actually illustrates my point about a marketing guy having to go against his instincts.

"If you're a position coach, he'll ask how you rate the talent the scouts have drafted. If you're a scout, he'll ask how the coaches are developing talent. You realize he has no true football compass and is pitting you against your peers, sometimes even your boss, but in the moment it feels like you've got the owner's ear.

"You think you're the one he trusts," says a former high-level member of Browns management. "By the time you realize that he confides in everyone, it's too late. You're gone.""

This fits with the fact that we have seen him fire 5 HC and 5 GM.

There are other examples in the article of Haslam's interfering loser behavior.

I'm not disputing that he's been a source of dysfunction. I just see clearer examples of that dysfunction being attributed to his lack of patience way more so than because he's fickle, bi-polar, or fancies himself the NFL Tina Turner sitting on her perch as she puts 2 contestants in a Thunderdome style of management.

Critics often like to point out that running a string of truck stops is not the same thing as running a pro-football organization. In some ways that statement is true, but its more false.

I've never worked for a sports organization in my entire life, but I have experiences or witnessed about 95% of the events outlined in the article you posted. TV shows like The Office and cartoon strips like Dilbert wouldn't have been so popular if workplace drama didn't transcend across industries.

They're both likely to be on team friendly contracts. If Hunt leaves, it's because he didn't hold up his side of the deal to stay on the straight and narrow if we signed him after the kicking incident. Nothing really to do with analytics. I'm guessing analytics would show that limiting carries by having multiple competent RBs extends careers and has them in better health towards the ends of long seasons.

Peer reviews are a common evaluation tool. They're generally part of 360 degree feedback systems. They're not pitting people against each other. They're designed to help people improve by providing feedback.

I suppose we'd be better off if nobody asked any questions or communicated with each other, and we did nothing to try to improve outcomes.

If people pit themselves against each other, that's problematic. It's not the questions' fault, though. The goal is to get constructive criticism. Not to try to get other people fired. "Football guys", or at least those that wear the label like it's a badge of honor, seem to have trouble with that.

1.) Dorsey wasn't fired. He was told he could not participate in the head coach search, and he decided to quit. Dorsey could have stayed, but he botched things so badly with Freddie, that he could not be allowed the opportunity to "Flex his muscles" again.

2.) Freddie messed in in very many ways, record, play calling, a lack of discipline, not calling plays that had been worked on all week in practice. Do you honestly think that if the season would have been 8 - 8 or 9 - 6, that Freddie or Dorsey would be gone? The NFL is a results oriented organisation, to keep your jog, you produce results. The analytics guy did not get Freddie fired, Freddie got Freddie fired. Freddie was so bad that the person who "Flexed his muscles" to make him the head coach, was told he could not be involved in the search for Freddie's replacement.

As I’ve said before, Haslam isn’t going anywhere, so you have three options, as a fan: accept the reality of the situation, buy the team, or move on to another team.

Well, there is a fourth: constant bitch about the Browns not doing it the way you want.

So, there you go.

Revisionist history. If Sashi wasn't the GM somebody forgot to tell him. Here are some of his comments on being hired as the Wizards



That horrible roster sunk Sashi. Talk about those trying to avoid personal responsibility.

Those who blame the roster and not Hue still don't get it.

They were both awful at their jobs. Sashi was the defacto GM. Hue was an awful coach. Wanting to see what Hue could do with better players is just as idiotic as wanting to see what Sashi could do with a better coach. They both needed to go immediately after 1-31. We wouldn't be in the mess we're in now, Kitchens wouldn't have even been on the radar as a head coach and maybe we'd have started with Stefanski or Gregg Williams and been well on our way.

Oh I get it. They both sucked and are both gone. I'm not the one who doesn't get it.

People trying to justify an opinion after it is no longer relevant don’t get it either.

According to Sashi he was the GM. But somehow our fans think they know better.

No more than those that wanted to see what Hue could do with better players.

My degree is in business management. 360 degree feedback is a widely used term/process.

Here's a link to a PDF of a scholarly piece on Performance Management.

Performance Management PDF

360 degree feedback is mentioned at the bottom of page 15 (on the page, not the reader program) and most likely elsewhere.

Football is about more than just the football at the NFL level. Many people don't seem to understand that. It's big business and as such many business best practices are incorporated in successful franchises. Everyone involved with the team is being paid and there are limits on how much teams can spend. It's not just find the best players and everyone go out and have fun. It's a billion dollar industry where everyone is looking for an edge. You can't be stagnant and consistently win. You need alignment and honesty, not lip service and backstabbing. If you agree to a plan, you shouldn't whine about it later. Neither should you cry about past regimes for your poor decisions/results.
If you're not willing to work together to improve, you're not going to work out.

We are fans. I quoted Sashi saying he was the GM here. But in the world we live in now, even when you give people a direct quote they try to act like it means nothing.

The process only leads to friction if people can't handle constructive criticism. You don't want people that think they are perfect just the way they are in your organization.

Even in football, all the greats were constantly striving to get better. They were watching and trying to learn from other greats. Kobe was an example of a great that people in other endeavors tried to emulate and learn from.

Football, baseball, rocket science, some things carry across all organizations. "Teams" win in spite of stiff-necked neanderthals who refuse to change, not because of them.

I stand corrected then. I hadn't recalled that Sashi held the title of GM while he was here. My bad.

BTW Pit.. from the same article...

"Brown knows what that process is like, having started from the bottom with the NFL's Cleveland Browns three years ago. He laid a foundation there as GM that has helped lead to a bright future for one of the NFL's most moribund teams".

Sounds like someone thinks he did a good job...

He technically wasn't. It was also said we were going to hire a GM when Sashi was hired as executive vice president of football operations.

And Berry, who managed the scouting and personnel evaluation.

Sashi and Depo may have wanted to give the job to Berry then, but Haslam was concerned with the optics of hiring an inexperienced, sub-30 year old GM.

More experienced people may have been unwilling to share a building with Sashi and Depo because they'd never done things the way
the braintrust for the Browns wanted to follow.

People think all kinds of things. That's why I don't tend to post the opinions of others.

Yet according to Sashi he was. I guess we should believe you over the man who actually held the job? Yeah, that's not going to happen.

There was also a ton of debate about exactly what "GM" duties he was taking on as well. Some insinuated that he was the one selecting players based on what hepersonally wanted. Others postulated that he left the player evals and selection to the scouts and was the one who signed his name to the draft card and trade agreements because someone has to.

It's like my paycheck. The person who signs it isn't a part of the police department and is not in a position to direct or influence police related matters.

Some will go to great lengths to try and rationalize things.

j/c

I have no choice. I have to accept the Browns as they are. We have a new HC/GM/Staff. Whatever is in the past, is in the past. What I want to do is look at what may come.

We have no idea how Kevin Stefanski will be as a coach. Same as Andrew Berry, although we know him better since he was here for over 2 years. What we know, however that they are on the same page. They are both young for their position and both have been recognized for showing the potential to be good at the positions they now hold.

Having a HC and GM on the same page is huge. Especially if they get along with each other and communicate well. I know, it's the Browns, but if these guys can live up to their potential, work together for a common goal, and stay together over time, we could end up with something.