I'll put this here, too...

Figured I'd start a separate thread now that we know the GM.

Berry receives a contract length matching Stefaski and DePodesta. Sounds like what SF did.

A reminder from a couple of weeks ago...


Although....has DePo been extended?

I like this. Good to see all the gloom and doom posters claiming that we were "damaged goods" were wrong again on this one.

McAdoo as QB coach next? Would people be happy with that hire if we brought OBJ's former coach on board?

Saw what you want about Jimmy Haslam, and there a bunch of bad things to say, but his record of hiring minorities to high level positions is stellar. Good on him.

Also, a five year deal mirrors Stefanski's deal.

Andrew Berry always made the most sense. He knows the personnel guys and the data guys. He gets along with Jimmy Haslam and Paul DePodesta and was involved in the interview process last year with Kevin Stefanski.

Yep, 5 years as well. See my post above.

Is Sashi Mufasa in the clouds here, lol?

I don't see anything referring to that.

Now, give them time to do it right.

Look at the Charles Robinson tweet above. Maybe I'm reading that and assuming DePo was extended 5 years because of the way it's written?

Yeah, it just references alignment. I'm assuming that means more about process alignment than contractual alignment, but who knows?

I don't see any deal about Paul DePodesta in the above Tweet. My guess is that DePodesta's new deal will be reported separately. DePodesta said that he will "be here".

DePo played football at Harvard.
Berry played football at Harvard.
Stefanski played football at Penn.

About time we got "Football Guys" running things in Berea!

cfrs wins again! Must be a bad cold!

(For the record, I don't think I ever beat him to a post)

Only in football can hiring Ivy Leaguers be considered outside the box thinking.

I'm curious to see what happens to Wolf and Highsmith, who worked with Berry through two drafts. And if any Eagles' personnel staff transition over...not necessarily now, but post-draft.

They've both worked with Berry before, so that is definitely a good thing. If I had to guess they will both be gone after the draft. They are both Dorsey's guys through and through. I would prefer to keep at least Eliot Wolf as he seems bright and is young enough where he might not yet be set in his ways.

I think Wolf has a chance to stay.

Kinda where we figured we'd be when all this started isn't it?

Roll up your sleeves gentlemen...

I think Berry becoming the youngest minority in NFL history (and youngest overall) to become a GM is a pretty cool part of this story too.

Seems like it will be at least 5 years. At least it should be.

Hire people with developed interpersonal skills and the ability to receive new information without taking it as a criticism. That should be the goal of most people hiring a person for a high level position. It seems like we have done that.

Now somebody go lock the owner in a closet.

Which means "just under two".

I'm holding the O/U at 30 games before the cannings begin.

Naa...it's going to work this time.

I think it is a pretty good grouping.

Everyone in unison ... "WE'LL TAKE THE UNDER!"

j/c:

Ok. Another “To Do” item checked off. On to the next.

Oh boy. That's not going to fit the narrative the Browns blew it and Paton rejected us.

When it was reported Friday that Paton had bowed out, MKC was on the radio saying she believed it was because he found out he wasn't the Browns' first choice.

"spend ample time shaping up their shared culture goal. There are bound to be some guys who won't fit."

Seems cryptic.

If you look at our roster, there is no reason why we can't be successful this year. We now have a more strategically sound approach to the future as well because of analytics.

Did the hype get to us last year? Yes.

Did we under preform last year? Yes.

The 49ers were supposed to be the darkhorse candidate for the SB LAST year. It didn't happen and everyone wrote them off.

I hope the same thing happens to us going into 2020.

Not really a fan of Mary Bae filtering the news to what she thinks it means....much like Grossi and Ruiter. That said, Berry was tied to this thing from the very beginning so it wouldn't be at all a leap to go back to that narrative once Paton was 'officially' out of the picture.

And the reports from Charles Robinson as posted by Memphis seem to indicate she was correct.

Sugar Ray Farmer 2.0?

The triumvirate is complete.

Triumvirate

(in ancient Rome) a group of three men holding power, in particular ( the First Triumvirate ) the unofficial coalition of Julius Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus in 60 BC and ( the Second Triumvirate ) a coalition formed by Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian in 43 BC.

I wonder how that worked out?

Yep.

We wanted a 2nd with the guy because he was good. As the 2nd interview went on, it became clear we weren't as hot on Paton as some think. He pulled out out of the process because he got the feeling we weren't going to hire him.

Had we wanted to hire him and he pulled out because he didn't think we would hire him, somebody would have stepped in.

Bye Kareem.

Laugh all you want. I am enjoying this.

No expectations.

Wish him the best of luck in his new position.

Maybe Kevin, Andrew, and Paul will make magic.

Young guys in the prime of life. All qualified.

A few more spots to fill on the staff then begin preparations for free agency and the draft.

Although we have experienced more regime change than any of us would like ya never know how it will turn out?

With Dorsey and Freddie most thought we were ready for prime time. The Networks put the Browns in a bunch of prime slots. We were not ready. In one of those games the 49'ers took our lunch money and kicked us around.

So we can complain about Haslam. Say we are cursed. And are forever doomed to fail.

Me. I don't know what we will do? There is talent. Mr. Baker Mayfield has to play better. We need some holes filled and guys return healthy.

But what we really need more than anything is to win. Winning changes everything. Let's everyone breath easier. Builds confidence. And leads to more winning.

So I wish Andrew Berry the best of luck and congratulate him on being the youngest GM in the NFL.

Make us a winner Andrew.

They ruled the world for 1000 years. If our success is equal we'll win the next 20 Superbowls.

Right? Thank you.

Well ... back to Depo, Stefnski, and now Berry ......

I am unimpressed. Maybe they'll surprise me pleasantly .... then again ....Haslam is involved .... so they'll probably all be gone in a year or 2.

Color me unimpressed.
I wish I could garner the positivity that Charlie Robinson has,what is his story,but been there,seen this too many times.
Would it be out of line to call these guys the Geek Squad?

Oh I do understand that. First he didn't really want the job. Then his family didn't want to move. Now some Yahoo reporter on Twitter gives you option three. The ever evolving Paton story nobody has any real evidence of.

Why am I not surprised by that?

And STAY OUT THE WAY HASLAM! Go back to marketing and counting your money for ONCE! YOU need to focus on what YOU do best and let these guys do their job WITHOUT YOUR INTERFERENCE! For once, use that gray matter between your ears. PLEASE!

Welcome back to Cleveland, Andrew Berry!

Now there can be no excuses for this team not being in playoffs in 2020.

The only question I have...will Depodesta and Haslam allow Berry to run the show...or is Andrew Berry just a figurehead?

LOL we have hired and fired so many people that we have to rehire the people who left or were fired.

Some people refer to that as retreads. Some people try to act like that's a good thing.

It'll be tough, Mac, given how the team regressed under Dorsey's command in his final year.

However, I believe the Nerds are up to the challenge!

Yeah, things were so much better when Berry and Depo were part of the trifecta.

superb...I didn't think of it that way, but now that you mention it...YOU ARE 100% CORRECT..LOL

The Browns didn't have any other candidates scheduled to interviewed, did they. It's not like Haslam had much of a choice...it had to be Andrew Berry.

I think Paton pulled out because he found out he would be workinh for a baseball guy and a idiot owner. So we get Berry. Wasn't he the of the guys that led us 1-31. the head coach we wanted from NE pulled out when he found out how things were run around here

I'm guessing (since that's all we really can do), but I bet there is a bit of truth to the story that Paton bowed out because he didn't think he was the #1 candidate. I also think that there's a little bit of 'recrafting the narrative' going on. I say that because I highly doubt a GM candidate that's as sought after as he supposedly is is going to be all gung-ho about coming from a safe environment into this dumpster (I love my Browns, but we are what we are).

I wanted Paton. I'm not pumped at all over bringing people back that were involved in the Corey Coleman, Kenny Britt, Kizer, etc offseasons. Those guys established that they're really good at getting high draft picks... not so much at putting together NFL-caliber rosters. Coaching had a hand in 1-31, but so did our rosters. Recording-setting sucking might've been part of the plan, but that's their legacy here in Cleveland, and I would rather get further away from that vs going back.

But hey... they all like each other, so that's cool.

am extremely leery of this FO pairing. Berry was part of the regime that we went 1-31 under, a part of the regime that passed on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahommes….TWICE….EACH…..traded down selected Jabrill Peppers (a tweener with no real position) and David Njoku who was almost exclusively “Potential” selection that has done absolutely nothing, in which we passed on a number of players for. That list includes All Pro’s TJ Watt and Ryan Ramcyck taken in the same round directly after Njoku…..Then names like Dalvin Cook, Marcus Williams, JuJu Smith Schuster, Alvin Kamara etc.

That is terrifying. Absolutely abysmal.

Berry was VP of player personelle from 2016-2018.

2016
So we ended up with Corey Coleman instead of Carson Wentz, Joey Bosa or Zeke Elliot.

2017
Jabrill Peppers instead of the Mahommes or Watson.
Njoku instead of Watt or Ramcyck

2018 – Fired, Enter Jon Dorsey.


That is horrific. So, pardon my lack of enthusiasm.

Just to add another wrinkle to your rant... they traded down (effectively passing on all those QBs) to stockpile draft ammo to draft a QB.

Now, I'm of the belief that we no longer need to worry about getting said QB, but someone/some group that's that far off the mark... I dunno.

Yeah, if you can't identify the potential in Mahommes and Watson (who I was really an advocate of) then all the picks in the world are meaningless. We were considering passing on Garret for frigging Trubustsky if the reports are true.

Andrew Berry was never fired. His contract was up and left for the Eagles job.

For me, it's not that they missed out all these guys at different positions. The real indictment is that they were hell-bent on getting a franchise QB in place and actively, specifically, passed on 3 guys that have been playing incredible ball straight out the gates.

I can even excuse passing on Watson, what with the whole running QB thing, but passing on the other two is simply inexcusable.

IIRC, he was still under contract, but since he appeared to be blocked for a promotion here, the Eagles were allowed to interview and hire him for a higher position than he held here.

Regardless, not being retained in the NFL is virtually the same thing as being fired.

Todd Haley's contract "Ran out" in Pitt, everyone knew they weren't bringing him back.

Now we are holding things that we "almost did" against people?

Also, if we are going off rumors then there were rumors that we were going to take Mahomes before the Chiefs jumped us for him.

Was that meant to give them some sort of credit? If anything, you thought the guy was that good and got cute, ended up missing on probably the best player in the NFL for Jabrill Peppers. If you were trying to give them some credit for that, it just put an underline under how idiotic the strategy was.

All other teams: Trade up for franchise QB.
Browns: lets wait and see if he falls to us with our second pick.

The record shows in archives I was a giant Wentz guy. Wanted him in the worst way.

Mahomes. I made a case as to why we should take him. But to be fair hindsight is easy pickings.

Wentz as a prospect was no slam dunk.

Mahomes was a real question mark. He was all over the place as a prospect.

Many GM's have failed on picks. It is far from an exact science. Moneyball or not.

Time has passed and times have changes.

I don't believe we can look at "our new management team" and forecast failure based upon selected past events.

We don't have a clue as to how much actual power Berry had at that time or how he viewed players then.

Now the recipe is different. Different players. Different decision makers.

Between now and the first game we can access the events that will have taken place. But what will we actually know?

Not a thing. We can grade the draft. Useless. We can talk about what free agents were signed and which ones were let walk. So what.

We know something when they play games that count.

Come September we start the season 0-0. After that we find out.

Just win football games.

My excitement about any of this is non existent.

Don't really care what the names are.

Just win football games.

With Haslam it will be extremely difficult.

So tell us, Oh wise one.

How much influence did Berry have on ANY PICK WHILE HE WAS HERE?

NOONE has a clue what his responsibility was during that time.

Why are you unimpressed? Your aside about Haslam doesn't answer the question.

I myself am very impressed. Stefanski was a riser in the coaching ranks. Berry is well regarded all around the league as a top evaluator. Depo is held in high esteem doing what he does to support the other two.

Is it going to work? Only time tells that. We thought that Holmgren riding around on his golf cart was going to change things.

I think we have 3 bright, energetic guys who are good at what they do.

I don't think you can ask for anything more than that.

For the record we never passed on Mahomes twice.

And I still don't think Watson is as good as a lot of people think he is.

Yey, the boys are back in town! Yey....

I believe he was still under contract but rather left for a promotion.

Berry wasn't fired. He left when John came in because he knew Jon wasn't going to value his opinion after bringing in Wolf and Hightower.

Depo didn't leave because he could do his thing from anywhere in the world. He didn't need to be in Cleveland all the time, dealing with the Dorse.

I understand some of the skepticism, but I have been rooting for this team for 56 years and all I want is another winner, so I have to hope this is the time we get it right. Haslem has made many many mistakes and my hope is he has finally seen the light, I really like what I see and hear in Stefanski, we do have a talented roster and my hope is Berry and Depo do NOT clean house to the point of where we have to start over which I don't see happening. If and that is a BIG if, then we fill some holes during FA with some top talent (OL, S, LB, and TE) that we can finish the job through the draft and then start winning again as I remember as a child and as a young man. So My hope is that Haslem finally has gotten things right because I'm NOT getting any younger. GO BROWNS

Official Cleveland Fan Press Statement upon learning of this hire:

Actually, Berry was here with Dorsey the entire 2018 season. He left a year ago for promotion with the Eagles.

Cool....probably because he felt like a brown shoe at a black tie affair.

Old joke, but it applies.

I agree. He has no idea what he's doing once he drops back. It's why he resorts to backyard football so much.

But he has that winning gene. He may not be polished but he has a knack for making game winning plays.

I'd take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Our QB is the exact opposite.

I think he's only lost one game by more than a touchdown in the NFL... could be wrong... he's up and down but you are never out of it... part of his problem has been OB is an average offensive mind and Texan s can't keep a WR health besides Hopkins

Haslam has had 5 HC and 5 GM hired and fired since 2012. That allows me absolutely ZERO confidence in his ability to form a team that will succeed.

This "new" alignment has been seen before. Maybe not with everyone being "best friends", but Haslam has tried this, and failed at it, before.

Actually, it failed with DePotesta and Berry as part of the equation.

I am sure that Stefanski is a solid position coach, and a decent OC ..... but we just fired a guy who had 8 games experience as an OC, and hired a guy who has 19. (Now, When he interviewed with us last year, he had 3) Who else has he interviewed with for a HC position?

I see more concerns than assurances here,

We've actually not been down this road with Haslam before.

What's different is that Haslam let the process play out. We've also never been "aligned" as we are now. Let's see how it plays out.

Also .. a football person, a former scout has control of the roster.

Wait, this guy was part of the 1-31 squad. Did he have a hand in drafting Corey Coleman?

Welcome (back) to Cleveland Berry!

Congrats! Lets do this!!!!

He probably did. So what? He was projected to be a first rounder. He had talent.

Who could predict the team's top 2 QBs getting injured the first couple weeks of the season and their deep ball receiver being stuck (not) catching passes from Kessler's noodle arm?

Then having an unready Kizer the next season. That RGIII injury blew up the plan for CoCo.

Being a bad fit on a bad team led to frustration and bad habits.

Hopefully the whole roster is in a better place now. Hopefully we finally catch some breaks on the injury front.

I for one am Berry excited for this trio and look forward to beating DePanski off of some teams this year! Right Dawgs?!

Devil looks around for some high fives...

Only the Shadow Knows.

Hilarious.

Berry possibly wasn't involved in picking players implied but hired as a GM.

Also, Watson isn't good.

Coleman had talent.

Awesome. Great chat.

Jimmy wants a yes man for a GM.

He got his man.

Or maybe he's just tired of divas. Big babies that feel the need to "flex" on people they disagree with have led to some lousy outcomes. Maybe instead of digging in and making picks everyone isn't on board with, leading to discord and division, we'll come to consensus on things and actually have a team instead of a bunch of competing factions.

It sounds like we have 3 very intelligent men, Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Berry, and Paul DePodesta, working together for us. Things might be different this time. Let's give it a chance, a REAL chance.

Andrew Berry named Browns Executive Vice President of Football Operations and General Manager

The Browns on Tuesday named Andrew Berry, a former Browns Vice President of Player Personnel who spent the past season in a similar role with the Philadelphia Eagles, as the team's Executive Vice President of Football Operations and General Manager.

Berry, 32, returns to Cleveland after serving as a Vice President of Football Operations with the Philadelphia Eagles for the past year. He becomes the youngest known general manager in NFL history.

"We are thrilled Andrew will lead our football operations," Dee and Jimmy Haslam said. "We have always been profoundly impressed with him as a consummate professional who has meticulously studied his craft every place he has worked and is extremely dedicated to utilizing every resource to improve an organization and to enhance his own knowledge. He will be a tremendous partner with Kevin as he embraces the critical nature of his relationship with the head coach. We know he can't wait to get to work."

Berry will be introduced at a press conference Feb. 5 at the team's facility in Berea.

Berry first joined the Browns in 2016 as a vice president of player personnel, working first under Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown and then General Manager John Dorsey. He helped lead all talent evaluation efforts for the club, including college prospects and NFL free agents. He also helped in overseeing the club's scouting department and worked closely with other high-ranking members of the front office.

During Berry's three seasons with the Browns, the team selected at least one Pro Bowler every year: LB Joe Schobert (fourth round, 2016), DE Myles Garrett (first round, 2017), CB Denzel Ward (first round, 2018) and RB Nick Chubb (second round, 2018).

In his one draft with the Eagles, Philadelphia used a second-round pick on RB Miles Sanders, who went on to lead all NFL rookies in scrimmage yards with 1,327 and set an Eagles rookie rushing record with 818 yards.

"I'm honored and blessed to lead the Football Operations of the Cleveland Browns," Berry said. "I'm appreciative of the Haslam family for entrusting me to be a steward of a franchise that is so rich in tradition and history. The passion for football courses through the veins of Northeast Ohio in a manner that is unique to that of any other region. Our fan base's devotion to the Browns is the catalyst for such affection for the sport. Rewarding YOU all—our loyal and faithful Dawg Pound—will energize and motivate me daily to attack the challenge ahead of us. It is for that reason that I am excited to partner with Kevin Stefanski—a coach I know our city will embrace because of his leadership skills, work ethic, humility and character—to work tirelessly and with immediate urgency toward building a winning organization that will make the people of Cleveland proud."

Berry started with the Colts in 2009 as a scouting assistant and was promoted to pro scout in 2011 before being elevated to pro scouting coordinator in 2012. During his time in Indianapolis, the Colts won four AFC South titles, made five postseason appearances and advanced to Super Bowl XLIV. From 2009-15, Indianapolis won 67 games, the sixth-most in the NFL during that span.

In the Colts' front office, Berry managed the free agency process, scouted upcoming opponents and evaluated NFL players and players from other professional leagues. He also assisted with college scouting, preparation for the NFL draft and participated in contract negotiations during free agency.

"I was introduced to Andrew about 10 years ago at the Senior Bowl by Leslie Frazier so I've known him for quite some time," Head Coach Kevin Stefanski said. "I've always respected him for the way he's carried himself in this profession. Andrew is extremely knowledgeable and is always looking to improve himself. We share a vision on the type of team we need to build to have the success our fans deserve. I'm excited and very much looking forward to getting to work with Andrew and developing the type of partnership needed for sustained success."

Berry graduated from Harvard University [censored] laude with a bachelor's degree in economics and a master's degree in computer science in four years. While at Harvard, he was a four-year starter as a cornerback and was a three-time All-Ivy League team selection and an All-America honoree. He totaled 125 career tackles and five interceptions playing for the Crimson.

Berry and his wife Brittan have two boys, Zion and Kairo.

Her cutting edge journalism streak is alive. Not the hiring story, the one she wanted to write?

lame perhaps.

"I'm honored and blessed to lead the Football Operations of the Cleveland Browns," Berry said. "I'm appreciative of the Haslam family for entrusting me to be a steward of a franchise that is so rich in tradition and history. The passion for football courses through the veins of Northeast Ohio in a manner that is unique to that of any other region. Our fan base's devotion to the Browns is the catalyst for such affection for the sport. Rewarding YOU all—our loyal and faithful Dawg Pound—will energize and motivate me daily to attack the challenge ahead of us. It is for that reason that I am excited to partner with Kevin Stefanski—a coach I know our city will embrace because of his leadership skills, work ethic, humility and character—to work tirelessly and with immediate urgency toward building a winning organization that will make the people of Cleveland proud."

Counter that with:

"Awake the sleeping Giant"

very uninspiring hire...with haslam, the talent pool for quality FO/coaches willing to work here amounts to a puddle

Like GMs are really inspiring. How many can you name offhand without looking them up team by team?

Im interested to see what this guy can do standing on his own two feet and being "the man" in charge of the 53.

Unless someone has a verified account of what was Berry's take on the drafts that he helped others prepare for; we don't know a thing.

His title's have not carried final decision making authority.

We don't know what his breakdowns were on the players involved in his time with the Colts, Browns, or Eagles.

I have not seen a single report that stated he pounded the table for prospect X.

So now he is supposed to have authority over the roster.

I am not going to judge his past. But going forward it now will have his name stamped on it.

The Browns today and the decisions that they will face come from a whole new set of circumstances.

I wish him well.

Oh no! He's left handed!

Hey now!

Remember about 5-7 years ago when things, weren't going well,
Well they werent' going well but they had common sense.

And Oh, one day things got all screwy when The Owners walked in and all the people with football sense, might have looked up and uh

All of a sudden here is for the first time "Dee" and Sashi, and This Berry gentleman, and Depodesta, and what not, and uhh, they all started to hold meeting as a group of about 5, and put the hammer down on "authority" as a group clique,

And that was about 5-7 years ago, and uhh, it didnt' go so well, , in fact, in my opinion it was not just a dumpster fire,
it was a forest fire, and not just a forest fire
(in terms of success vs. failure)
but a forest fire of Australia this year proportions
i.e like 50 times the size of a normal California forsest fire.

So it's been BAD to say the least, errrr, UNSUCCESSFUL!

And uhh, Maybe, Dorsey, and umm Freddie, were a little bit of a return to the common - football sense thinkers, ... expecially Haley, and Gregg Williams seemed to be football guys.

BUT!!! !!! !!!

Since we've seen this hasn't worked out for poop, with 5 years, "RECENT" years, to go on, as an example... a' control group so to speak

The appearance that the Browns have decided to umm, "double down" on Barry, Depo, and anylitics, (less than football common thinkers-- sense)

leave me non-plussed to say the least; and expecting absolute freakin disgraceful results as we've seen in the past, to equal some of the "worst" years we've seen
competitive wise, since 2006.

Now I can root for the team all you want, but there's only SO MANY TIMES,
I mean it's like , if you keep hiring an 11 year old kid, to teach kindergartners school lessons,

and you come back and go DUH! They didn't teach the curriculum; they took em to "chuck E' Cheeses'" again...
"Let's find another 11 year old to teach the kindergartners"

Wait a second, there's a problem with the process.
I want to laugh! But I'm crying- on the inside.

Forget what the fans deserve, how about the "town" with the "Name" of the City of "Cleveland." Give them a football team, That's Built Right!

But hey, I guess we'll "wait and freakin see!" < that's the only funny part left. (Funny because there isn't a member on this board who doesn't know exactly how bad this is going to go, whether they want to admit it in their hearts, or not,)

Not exactly true .... and for the record I’m not concerned with his past ... but we do know something ...

We know he was apart of two BRUTAL DRAFTS ... we know he played a role ... were just not sure exactly what that role was ...

If i would want to consider anything with him it would be the talent they brought in Phili ... i have no clue .... we also know he was involved but who knows how much ...

That's the whole point.

I mean the guy is very young. He was a scout with the Colts. Moved up the ladder.

We have no idea what he had to say when he worked under Sashi? Yes he was there but what was his views on players?

He was there under during Dorsey's first year as well.

My take about this new group Stefanski, Berry, Depo.

Inexperienced.

Smart young guys who have not proved a thing in their current roles.

So it could go bad no doubt about that.

At the same time I want to be positive. So I will take a "show me" approach. Hope for the best.

He’s young but he’s also super smart and driven. That counts as a major negative with lots of folks on this board but not with me. To graduate with a BS is economics AND a masters in comp sci in 4 years from Harvard is no joke. That’s a tiny cohort. It means you’re not just smart, you’re much further along in terms of personal discipline and professional development than 99.99..% of the people you meet. So yes, he’s young and absolutely could fall on his face as so many others have but I’m mildly reassured that we won’t likely do abjectly stupid things. That alone would be a breath of the fresh stuff. I’ve been around plenty of successful people from lots of different backgrounds and a fancy degree(s) certainly doesn’t guarantee anything but it does tell you he’s smart, organized, disciplined and knows how to connect. Does that translate to a winning football team? We’ll see.

One thing I like about Berry is his scouting background.

That is good experience. You are with other scouts. You attend lots of scouting sessions where you discuss players and their abilities. It gives you an appreciation of the scouting process and how to trust them. In addition you grind through tons of player tape.

That experience will help him as a GM.

I think it is easy to look at draft decisions and lay it all on the GM. When it is actuality a whole group of people are involved. Scouts and their role are underestimated.

The GM looks at their reports and questions them. But he also has to trust them.

Depo's role as he explained is not about going over scouting reports. But using data to assist in the process of evaluation.

The most important part of this whole regime will be how KS and Berry work together.

I have never Browns fans more apathetic than I have this year...

if they don't turn things around, this could get ugly quick

Yes it could. However I will still be here with my pom pom's praying for a Browns Super Bowl win. Nothing can change that. Not even death.

Good luck Andy ....

Says every Browns fans everywhere, every year.

It got ugly this past year .. all the hype, expectations, all the "WE are going all the way" talk, led to the apathetic feelings we have now. Freddy wasn't ready, Dorsey thought he was infallible, and the peasants ( fans ) revolted.

j/c:

Making a brief appearance in case anyone wants a different perspective and doesn't mind getting off the beaten path.

I've been reading quite a bit about how good it is that we are finally getting everyone on the same page. I am a bit surprised that everyone's memory is so short, because we heard the same mantra not that long ago.

It's when Shanny was here. Many media members and fans said he was a "me" guy and you couldn't win w/those type of guys. They said he didn't work well w/others. Folks were so hopeful because we would be so much better off w/everyone working together and on the same page.

That turned out well.

The other thing I would like to point out is that some folks are saying that Dorsey couldn't work w/others. They point to one article while he was in KC and repeat it over and over again like there are many examples of that claim, when in fact, it was just one opinion. It was not "widely reported." Instead, it has been widely regurgitated by certain folks who had it out for Dorsey.

I think it has been reported that Dorsey had the respect of many football guys around the league. It's been said that is why he was able to make so many trades. Other folks trusted him because of his willingness to work fairly w/others.

I want to shift slightly to Depo and those who were/are in his camp. A lot has been made over the "flexing my muscles" comment, but those same folks ignore information from the very same article where Depo and company would not tell their head coach who they were drafting until the day of the draft. Those guys wanted Trubisky. Hue wanted Myles. They kept him in the dark throughout the entire process. Is that working w/others?

Now, pair that information by putting yourself in Dorsey's shoes. You know that the analytics guys had multiple instances of not working well w/their the coaching staff. You also are working your tail off and have to deal w/a guy that can't even be committed enough to move to Cleveland and is instead working from San Diego. Yet, that guy has the ear of Haslam and is bucking the moves of others in the organization. How would you feel about that? Would you trust Depo and his guys?

There are a ton of other examples that give credence to these points, such as Hue calling D. Watson and saying they are going to draft him, but then the FO trading away the pick. I won't go into all of them, but it's out there for all to see if they care to look.

It is my contention that Depo and his guys were never happy w/Dorsey and they were in Haslam's ear the entire time. When things went south this year in regards to the Brown's record, their voice became even more persuasive in Jimmy's mind, because he almost assuredly did not enjoy taking a back seat and allowing the GM to have so much control of football operations.

The Browns lost the best thing they have had since their rebirth in John Dorsey and the building is full of snakes and incompetents that are in over their head. That is my take and I will not be rooting for such folks. I'll come back after they are gone.

Expectations breed let-downs. I really hated all the preseason hype this year. HATED it. It really teed up an epic let down and boy did they deliver. I predicted 8-8 and everyone feeling like crap about it and I was more right than wrong. So some apathy and blasé and resigned sighing among the fan base and media are not necessarily a bad thing imo. Who knows what the atmosphere will be come late summer but the pressure of expectations and the handling of it shouldn’t be as stupid as it was this year. And that should help the team focus on what’s important which is, you know, blocking and tackling and stuff.

Well said,

People always say that football is a business. Well, we have a triumvirate of Ivey's. All played football at their schools and have been involved in the NFL for a good number of years.

So we have football guys...smart football guys. Not to say the others weren't smart, just not as smart.

Our GM is held as a respected talent evaluator and administrator in many circles around the league.

Our Coach is seen as a top offensive mind. A riser in the coaching ranks and one who holds to old school football values.

Our strategy officer is probably the best in the business at what he does.

Will it work? Who knows. What I do know is everything we do will be well thought out between Berry and Stefanski, with top shelf support information provided by the chess player Depo.

I don't get the hate. We have 3 really sharp people in charge of different, but related avenues.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Welp, I can’t speak for anyone else but I neither know the past or present machinations of what’s really happening in Berea and am not rooting for/against any specific faction real or perceived in the organization. I wanted Dorsey to succeed. I liked a bunch of his moves, disliked others. Whatever. I don’t really know what Depobaseball can or will do moving forward but I’m rooting for whomever can bring a winning team. Who comprises the FO I will one day matter very little to me. Ultimately, heart of hearts, I don’t believe anything will work with Haslam involved. So what happens among the names below him I suspect won’t matter much and the thing will eventually go rotten, be it this group or the next or the next. I’m hoping. Hoping for luck. But I’ll be rooting in my little way for these guys and then the next. Rooting to forget about them in the bright lights of a decent team.

I think that 'these guys' are here for a while...

I think so as well.

Seems like 'The Plan' is back on track after a 2 year absence...

The Leftorium will appreciate the business!

I seem to recall that Depo's first job in pro sports, after graduating from Harvard, was interning in the CFL with the Baltimore Stallions.

Maybe so. I hope so. Not that the plan is a sure thing.

I think this time Berry is much better than Sashi since Berry is a actual scout, or has that background. I also think Stefanski is superior to Hue. Stef won't have to go through what Hue did, but Hue was the weak link . He was picked by Jimmy.

Once Hue saw he couldn't actually coach a team to some wins and needed them to win some games for him, he panicked, and I guess I get it. I wouldn't like my coaching name painted to 1-31

We lost a decent number of games we could have won because of Hues ineptness.

Getting some of the 1-31 crew back together doesn't give me confidence. Jimmy is still in charge, so they will be gone in a year or two.

Except, of course, if they win.

He didn't work particularly well here as a subordinate. He was a bit of a control freak. That works better as a HC when you actually have control on game day. Pretty much everyone agreed that he was bright and had a nice offense, but he had some rough edges to smooth.



Or he was able to make so many trades because people thought they could get the better of him and knew he rarely listened to anyone else when he had eyes for a player. He was a good scout whose tunnel vision made him an underwhelming GM. It seems like he spent too much time alone watching film of players who would likely never be on the team to the detriment of the players already here. How could he have not known of the Monken/Kitchens rift? He wasn't just a scout any more, he failed at managing people.



They didn't tell Hue who they were picking because they knew he couldn't keep his mouth shut. They tell Hue they're taking Myles and they'd lose any leverage trying to get a team to jump up from 2 for a QB, as quick as Silver could type.

Dorsey is the Hue Jackson of GMs. Good OC (scout), not so good head man. ...That's a bit harsh. Dorsey did do some good things with individual players. But also had some pretty big misses (Corbett/Thomas). It was the everything else not related to picking players part that he really struggled with.

I thought he was pretty capable when he was here...he has since gained more experience and knowledge.

Looks like these guys will have 5 years to turn this around and become a force in the NFL.

Berry does not seem to be an EGO guy but instead will roll up his sleeves and do the job.

This is the organization that DePodesta is establishing.

Youngest GM in the NFL...hmmm seems to have been around for quite a while.

Like the FB we just picked up although it had Stefanski written all over it.

jmho

That's where I'm at. It took a while, but we needed to fumigate the place to get rid of the stench after that disaster. Unless Berry was the lone warrior speaking out against what was going on at the time, we don't need to see what he can do in different circumstances. That's as bad as keeping the all time losingest coach in NFL history "to see what he can do with better players".

I am closer to the fence than you are, but I cannot shake this.

So will Berry only have 1 year to turn the Browns into a winner? If the Browns have a losing record next season will Berry be fired after his first year as GM like Dorsey was? Will see if this puts an end to the infighting and power struggles. Will be interesting to see if Berry can work with a head coach he didn't hire. Hope this works out.

Considering Berry wanted to hire Stefanski last year, I think they'll work just fine together.

Speaking for myself here...

I thought Shanny would fail in his goal to become a HC because of his inability to work with others. Clearly I was wrong, and I admitted as much at the time. I think he has a very low tolerance in terms of dealing with people, and so him working under an extremely inexperienced HC like Pettine probably wasn't such a good idea. You also had the Farmer BS going on.
He probably saw himself as the lone sane person surrounded by morons (and he wasn't totally wrong) and got out as quickly as he could.

As for Dorsey, I think you could see that there was at least some truth of his management inability.

Or so we hope. Truly, anything can happen. At least the optics of it right now don't seem like a forced marriage.

Yeah, I mean if you are sitting there with Mike Pettine and Farmer - who are ready to throw fist at each other as was reported before, I would find it hard to work with them as well.

Chris Mortenson: Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith are OUT.

https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/1222537404801781761

LOL

Mr. Assistant 1-31. Remember this guy was Sashi Browns Top Scout/Personnel guy.

Don't give the BS they were not trying to win. Sashi was rebuilding the entire roster from the draft, he needed EVERY pick in order to rebuild the roster.

out of 24 picks under Berry and Sashi, only 5 of those players could even stick to our roster:

Garret
Schobert
Oganjobi
Higgins
Njoku

Do you realize Sashi Brown and this clown "threw away" 19 draft picks in 2 years. We have ZERO to show for any of those drafts picks. Berry was the "genius" behind the Corey Coleman pick.

Mind you Berry thought Coleman was better than Keanu Neal, Ryan Kelly, and Kenny Clark all of whom made the Pro Bowl and since we were draft BPA that year, he had Coleman rated higher than any of those guys, and Berry and Brown were the ONLY GM in the NFL that had Coleman in front of much better players.

This is a disaster of epic proportion, Berry is nothing more than a yes man and a boot licker. Patton pulled out of the Browns job because he was not comfortable with the power structure meaning guys like Depodesta have too much power in the personnel and scouting matters.

You should be very concerned that Stephanski's hand picked guy for GM balked and walked once he realized how things were going to be run here.

I give Berry 1.5 years before he is fired. During this time he will however squander most of the draft picks we have during this time, and we will lose some good players we got under Dorsey to cap casualties or trades.

Dorsey wasn't perfect, he annoyed the **** out of me at times BUT he was our best chance to win in Cleveland since Marty.

Our real issue last year was Monken and Kitchens didn't get along. We should have kept Kitchens, moved on from Monken, brought in a new OC and stayed the course. Kitchens was still learning how to be a head coach sometimes you have to take one step back to take 5 steps forward.

Kitchens showed enough by beating 2 playoff teams(Ravens & Bills) and beating every single team in his division in his 1st season to be given a 2nd year.

Hue Jackson wins 1 game in 2 years and gets a 3rd season. Kitchens beats every divisional opponent and 2 playoff teams as a rookie 1st time head coach and gets fired.

idiocy beyond belief. Thats typical around here with the Browns though.

Our owner has ZERO clue how to run anything outside of marketing. This is why we are screwed.

unless a coach GM win 11+ games right out the gate they are fired....we will never be successful this way.

There goes any chance we had of getting decent players in the draft too.

Thankfully, I don't agree with anything you're saying. Much of which has zero facts to back it.

There is nothing in the history of Haslam or the first time these guys were here to indicate this will be the case. Actually every crumb of evidence to the complete opposite as far as this FO.

We have two out of three of the trifecta that failed the first time. The difference is the coaching staff. As far as the FO and Haslam's track record, PPE's over and under of 30 games is far more realistic.

But I guess ignoring the evidence and the fact that hope can be unrealistic has to explain it.

If they do remain and we win a lot, does that mean the Sashites were right all along?

That's the exact type of thing we should all be careful of. Narratives. When someone gets hired here people post every positive thing in the world about them. Fluff articles about their background. How respected they are around the league. How this time is different.

As soon as they depart, usually a year or two later, suddenly they were hard to work with, disrupted any sense of symmetry, it was them and them alone that was the problem. We've seen it time and time again.

People poke fun of Freddie's "If you don't wear orange and brown you don't matter". But the reality is, when you get hired by the Browns you're a saint. When you get fired from the Browns you were the devil.

It's all a narrative people wish to believe and perpetuate to make themselves feel better that's usually never rooted in reality.

If they do it without Sashi? Wouldn't that indicate the opposite?

I get what you're saying. To an extent, that's to be expected, as you don't get fired for doing a spectacular job, but I get your overall point, even if you're painting with too broad a brush (there were plenty of doubts regarding Freddie's experience, etc when he was hired, for example).

However, it was different with Shanny. The rumblings about him being tough to deal with were there before he got here. His prowess as an OC was also well known, and stuck after he left. The other difference with Shanny is that he left, we didn't fire him.

My only reference to Freddie was about his saying "If you don't wear orange and Brown you don't matter". He was a terrible HC and like you, I didn't want see him named HC.

Everyone's a sashi-ite until they're not, I guess.

They're*

j/c:

Doomed.

Wolf is not gone(yet). just highsmith

Dorsey:

2018 ~ 7-8-1
2019 ~ 6-10

Overall ~ 13-18-1

Obviously it's a major improvement over the previous two years but Dorsey was also given a blank check in the way of assets. People are talking about him like we fired prime Ozzie Newsome.

You're quick.

I caught it and changed it almost immediately.

Depends, how much are they relying on guys drafted and picked by Dorsey to win vs. the guys they bring in and draft I guess. And that's an honest answer - not a snarky one.

You see, I think the teams going to be decent this year actually. We have too much talent. All we needed last year to be 10-6 instead of 6-10 was a few good coaching decisions, and someone to hold guys accountable for their production.

My issue is the structure of the org. will fail once again as it did. The names on the wall don't matter.

It works that way a lot. Sashi more became a martyr than the devil, though. At least for many. It depends which side of the fence you sit on. Some felt Shanahan was more martyr than devil.

Some were pretty unanimous as they drove their bus to devildom.

Hope this guy is better than Ray Ray.

I don't think these guys have the ego that Dorsey does...

However, your point was exactly Dorsey's fear, in my mind. When he came in, I asked how would he ever turn us into a winner without riding the previous regime's coattails? We had a great base of players, a bunch of draft picks and cap space out the wazoo. I mean the scarecrow from the wizard of oz couldn't mess this up.

But then Dorsey proceeded to unnecessarily overturn the entire roster, trading a first round pick for a diva WR, swapping promising back ups for promising back ups. I was actually impressed that he made it his own, but that's why he was fired. He just did things for no rhyme or reason. He had no vision. Im sure he thought the tin man from the wizard of oz could have coached the team he assembled.

And here we are. Im just thankful he got the QB pick correct.

Hopefully he didn't also break him with his decisions at HC and on the OL.

I must say is that while I'm onboard with the analytical approach, I hope that everyone still does realize that we need to build a solid culture. There has to be a bunker mentality, where everyone is playing for each other, and everyone is giving it their best for the team.

That was one of the issues I had with Dorsey, is that he didn't seem to care about character or relationships within the team. If he could bring in a "talented" player, it didn't matter if they had other issues that would disrupt the chemistry. Then he would cut other guys that the team sort of took issue with. I feel like some of those things could have been handled a lot better.

I'm hoping the analytics team doesn't do the same thing and look at cold-hard numbers. Making cuts and hires left and right without considering the thoughts of how it will affect the culture of the team.

Maybe we should consider putting a spreadsheet emblem on our helmets.

Slide rule on the helmet.Uniform consisting of lab coats,pocket protectors and thick glasses.

I'll take that over a big slab of slobbered bubble gum.

The pocket protectors should be limited to the O-line.

I don't get your reference.

The Cleveland Excels?

Guys like Joe Haden, M. Scwartz, T. Gipson, etc said to say "hi."

Schwartz isn't a good example. We offered him the most and he/his agent walked. I would have pulled the offer as well..

You can't come back after shopping the deal and expect to get the same deal. You just told me my offer was high.

If Andrew Berry is blamed for drafting the players that went 1-31 why is he also not credited for the players acquired when he held the same position under John Dorsey?

How dare you try and add another losing season to Andrew Berry's resume!

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that a completely inept and dysfunctional organization, such as the Eagles, would have jumped at the chance to hire Andrew Berry, aka, 'Mr. 1-31'.

On a more thoughtful note, appreciate the video, cfrs.

Subtle, but this was good.

Good Luck Andy ...

Thanks, Barn

No probs Otis ...

Some on here are of the opinion that "Dorsey's" drafts were terrible just like the 1-31 ones, so.... :-p


For me, firsthand experience with something holds a lot of weight. Our firsthand experience with Berry was 1-31. For better or worse, it's as simple as that. With the ongoing mystery of who was and wasn't actually responsible for those drafts, I choose to hold them all accountable. This also jives with the mantra of the time being (IIRC) "The Consensus". I might be getting my mantras and FOs mixed up. I'm sure you all understand the difficulty of keeping it all straight.

So for anyone that doesn't understand people like me poo-poo'ing our GM hire... that's it right there.


That said, I will do my best to remain optimistic. I'll definitely give him a chance. At least for the GM position, we won't have to wait long, as FA and the draft will be here before they know it.

I didn't know where to post this so I'll do it here. Naturally, as a Browns fan for over 50 years I hope all the changes are finally the right ones and make us winners. However, as I was speculating about the recent changes I thought about the games in the 2018 season against Oakland and the last game against Baltimore where the refs blew 2 calls on fumbles that cost us 2 wins. If we had those wins we would have won the division and made the playoffs. Our FO would have been hard pressed to make any changes after that especially if we won a playoff game. How much different things would have been for 2019 and right now if that happened.

Yeah, once you weigh your options your value drops. Hurt feelings is always a part of sound business decisions. That worked out so well.

Was the Schwartz debacle under LomBanner or Sashi?

Sashi.

Losing Schwartz was a disaster. He was (still is) a good offensive tackle who plays every game. Who needs one of those?

I vaguely want to say that it straddled the two.
The bad blood initiated under LomBanner and that prompted him to want out, but by the time Sashi came aboard he was committed to the idea of going to free agency... then Sashi played hardball with the contracts and wouldn't accept him back at the earlier offer (which was stupid).

Agreed. We haven't been able to replace him since he left. It's hard to replace any good player at any position but the O-line is the toughest because as we all know they play in unison. I guess our FO didn't realize that. On more than one occasion may I add.

Schwartz wanted to come back, it was Mack that was committed to leave. Mack engineered his way out by signing an offer sheet that was a shorter term deal, that forbade the team from placing any tags on him when it expired.

Schwartz had an offer from the Browns prior to the opening of the "legal tampering period". His brother had played for the Chiefs, and wanted his brother somewhere where he had a chance to win. During the legal tampering period, he went to KC (where his brother had played)

He listened to what they had to say, but his fiancee was from Cleveland, and he liked the area and his teammates. However, when the he came back, (IIRC while still in the legal tampering period) the Browns pulled their offer, and replaced it with a lower offer. Schwartz then decided to take KC's offer.

It looks like Mitchell's hurt feelings worked out well enough for him.

Some guys don't take it well when the fact that the NFL is a business rears its ugly head. Sashi didn't low-ball Schwartz, he offered market value. Markets change from the beginning of FA til the end. Schwartz had the chance to set the market, but decided to test it. Other OL got signed around the NFL and the market adjusted.

Schwartz signed on March 9, 2016 ..... the day free agency opened. There was no sudden market shift in the value of Tackles. Sashi played his games before free agency opened, and it cost him a Pro Bowl, All Pro Right Tackle.

The “best” part of that ...

Sashi said the PLAN was to keep and acquire YOUNG PLAYERS that could grow with us ... i think Schwartz was the perfect fit for that plan yet they closed the door on themselves ... makes u wonder just how smart the Harvard geeks really are ...

I'd bet that if Sashi could do it over, he'd do it differently.
I don't know if he was completely out of his depth or if it was just part of a learning curve that he got wrong at that time, but I sincerely doubt that this can be held up as an example of what to expect from the new crew.... except in that, yes, mistakes ARE going to happen. There's no way that they are going to get everything right all the time. To pretend, or expect, otherwise would be just plain insane.

I don't know if he was trying to be the savvy negotiator, or if he perhaps suspected that Schwartz's agent was only coming back to us to try to get more money from KC, or if he was just simply stupid and thought that sort of hard deadline was a reasonable approach.... either way, it's the sort of thing that Experience has a way of making go away.

I’d hope he wouldn’t do it again ... that would mean the Harvard degree.may not be all its cracked up to be ... *L* ....

I said it about McCarthy ... past performance is not an indicator of future results .... i live on a 2 way street unlike many on here .... so that works both ways ...

Depo and Andy both have 4 more years under their belts .... and once the thief decided to hand our future off to depo and we fired KJ ... hiring Andy & Kev is no bigger risk than hiring anyone else out there ...

That is a good point. All hires and draft picks carry a degree of risk.

Or maybe those in charge simply made a bad business decision. I mean how did that all work out for us?

It was a failure by the front office not to re-sign Mitchell Schwartz. He is among the most valuable offensive linemen in the league. Keep him on your team. There is no excuse for letting him walk.

We still offered Schwartz the most money. It's not like Sashi didn't put a high value on him.

Hopefully as a former player Berry can handle the egos better.

Did I like the result of Schwartz leaving? No. We can't make every player stay, though. Paying the Browns tax on every player to get them to stay will never be sustainable.

Until we can change that conception that people deserve more to play here, we'll have to do better in the draft.

bull...sure liked it when Depo and Sashi didn't re-sign Schwartz...you wouldn't be making excuses for their ineptness if you weren't happy with their work.

The 0-16 must have like winning the Super Bowl for you.

In Cleveland, ineptness is rewarded...that is why the Haslam's are officially, losers.

You are what your record says you are...

And you are what your posts say.

You panic

Your record is broken. It's repeating the same sort of nonsense over and over right now. You might have to make sure the player is on a level surface and reset the needle.

If you don't stick to a plan, it has no chance to work.

When you plan to rebuild by drafting and developing talent, but the abominable coach that you didn't want manages to somehow make every player you draft worse than before they joined the team, it's not going to work well. If you stick a hand grenade in a perfectly sound building, it doesn't matter how well written the blueprints were. Hue was a hand grenade.

Truth, right there. I was gonna post much the same thing but you said it for me.

I will first wish him Good Luck!
Then say at 32 he's a Pup in the business world for a position this high.
He appears to have a better background than anyone else we've seen here in a long while even for one so young. Scout through to GM.
Plus he was a baller though college so he knows the game,
Knows the town.
A different crew surrounding him now, and he wasn't the boss then, so what happened here before is not really applicable.
Well it is I guess but only as it applies to him learning from those mistakes.
Anyway GOOD LUCK!

The Browns GM (Farmer) was fired in Jan 2016. Sashi as EVP 'won' the job of dealing with Farmer's complete incompetence. (Note that Berry's title includes GM AND EVP...unlike Sashi's singular EVP title.)

The failure here was to have the lawyer decide the value of a darn good RT. Sashi was a newbie trying not to be taken advantage of...and screwed the pooch.

JD was an experienced GM and supposedly a great talent evaluator ...he willingly and under no pressure and completely within the confines of his job description...traded away our All-Pro RG (who was safely under contract) and ultimately provided our 6' sophomore QB with Eric Kush up the gut.

Sashi threw himself under the bus to prevent Hue's power play to land AJ McCarron - and saved valuable draft capital (for the next guy).

JD flexed his muscles to anoint Freddie as HC.

Sashi bought the 2nd Rd pick that netted Nick Chubb...in a move unprecedented in the NFL. Risking scorn and ridicule.

JD stated that "those guys that were here before didn't get real football players"...endearing himself to McCourty (among others) that led to McCourty's trade for a 7th Rd pick. Then proceeded to do the typical new GM thang and get rid of 'not-my-guy' players that were contributors-but-not-stars...and replaced them with bodies.

We need Berry to be better than the last two guys who held his current titles. I just hope his moves are more about the betterment of the team and less about feeding his own ego. In that regard/measurement, I hope he's more Sashi-like than JD-like.

Note: I'm more comfortable with Berry than either Sashi (as de-facto GM) or JD (as actual GM). In the end, Sashi did the job he was supposed to do (tear it down and gather assets for the future)....while JD burned through those assets and failed to deliver the overall talent, success and culture that he was hired to deliver.

Didn’t know u were a sashiette ... wow ... I’m shocked ...

I don't really care to get into the JD vs Sashi debate at this point. All I'll say is that neither had time to implement what they were trying to accomplish. Sashi was saddled with Hue, but then so was Dorsey for the first of his two seasons here.

The team was playing some good football down the stretch of the 2018 season. Never underestimate the effect of good coaching. I wonder what the 2019 team could have been with some continuity there, but the Kitchens hire backfired spectacularly and Dorsey is out of a job. It is what it is.

Peen said we should let it go. I wonder where he's at now?

Your a pit bull ... i do it for fun ... almost all the time but not in regards to WSU ... i never saw his coming from him ... I’m not sure he is one ... this may be more about how far off base he is with KJ instead ...

Hi Willie ...

How costly have some of the mistakes the Moneyballers made ..?

It's coming on 8 yrs since the Moneyballers failed sign Schwartz and the franchise continues to struggle in an attempt to find someone as good as Schwartz was at RT.

Exaggerate much?

Do you have trouble facing reality?

The Browns are what their record says they are!

Reality is that it's not been 8 years since "the moneyballers" failed to sign MS.

4 years, 8 years, same idea right?

Next month it will be 16 years since we let Schwartz walk. 32 years later and this Moneyball approach still isn't working, says mac.

It sure appears that Cleveland Browns fans are not buying into the Haslams latest management scheme...


Does Browns trio Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Berry, Paul DePodesta give you confidence? (poll)

By Scott Patsko, cleveland.com 2 days ago
L

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Dee and Jimmy Haslam wanted alignment. With Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Berry and Paul DePodesta in place, they’re about to find out if they have it.

Berry was hired Tuesday as the GM/VP of football operations, the final prong of the trio the Haslams hope are all on the same page and ready to lead the Browns to success.

Stefanski, the new head coach, DePodesta, the chief strategy officer, and Berry, all Ivy League products, will report directly to the Haslams. While DePodesta’s role will remain the same as it has since 2016, according to Jimmy Haslam, Stefanski is a first-year head coach, and Berry, 32, becomes the youngest GM in the league.

Now that the Browns have a coach and GM in place, are you confident about 2020 and beyond?

Check out the poll below and let us know what you think.


Does Browns trio Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Berry, Paul DePodesta give you confidence? (poll)

YES = 17.66% (1277 votes)

NOT SURE = 27.09% (1959 votes)

NO = 55.25% (3996 votes)

7,232 total votes

All joking aside, I'm also very skeptical of this current arrangement. I'd vote 'no' on that poll, if I actually cared enough to click the link and vote on it.

Maybe Mitchell just wisely decided he'd rather take less money than ever play a down for Hue Jackson.

Sashi had two drafts to replace Schwartz. I'm guessing they liked Tunsil in 2016, but he had that crazy video with the gas mask and weed show up on draft day.

No OT drafted after the first round that year has really lit the league on fire as far as I could tell.

In the only other draft he had we took Myles. Should he have taken an OT number 1 instead? He brought in Pasztor that off-season who probably gave us more bang for the buck than anyone Dorsey brought in on the OL.

Sashi brought in Zeitler and Tretter. He re-signed Bitonio.

All Dorsey did was bring in Robinson, overpay Hubbard, and waste a prime draft pick on Corbett. Traded a couple picks for Teller after Kush, McCray and other people he brought in failed to replace the stud RG he traded away.

New Browns Kevin Stefanski has hired Callie Brownson as his Chief of Staff -- I believe this is the first time a woman has been hired for this NFL role. Brownson recently worked as intern in Buffalo, and was previously an asst coach at Dartmouth.

https://twitter.com/bylindsayhjones/status/1223298590199644161

Your maybe's are pretty far fetched.

That's why I put it in purple.

You conveniently ignore the facts I was serious about.

How the NFL is working to expand the number of female coaches

https://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/story/_/id/26481101/how-nfl-working-expand-number-female-coaches

Nice move by Stefanski.

This Sunday, as part of Kyle Shanahan's staff, the first female will be coaching in the Super Bowl.

NO,Please God NO!

I'm guessing she's played more football and at a higher level than you. Do some research.

A couple national championships and a couple international medals.

She's done a scouting internship in the NFL.

She's coached in the Ivy league.

Time to let go of the chauvinism.

What does this have to do with Berry ? Isn't this a HC hire ?

while your slurping up the kool-aid,think of this,it's a PR stunt,plain and simple.
Analytics says the LBGT community will support the Browns if we have a female on staff.
They called in Kevin Fancypantski and told him to hire a chick,or go back to Minny.

Football Guy.

Opinions are not facts. An anomaly is not a constant.

youngest daughter falls under your Label... She has loved the Cleveland Browns since she was old enough to know football..She also loves going to the games and cheering for the Browns. She was at the Thursday night game in the cold dark night cheering for the Browns the night they beat the Steelers.

She didn't care about the all male coaching staff... And Hiring Callie is about opportunity for a PERSON to show what they have to offer..




a Chick ? She's a coach...show some respect

They can start their own Ivy league fraternity now! I mean there's enough of them.

Not saying that's a bad thing but it's starting to look like a prerequisite for being hired by the Browns now.

She has more football experience than Depodesta has.

Haslam is desperate for some positive headlines...and sure enough, front page on the Browns webpage.

I'm not bro....don't sweat it. He was imminently unqualified for the role he took on after Farmer flamed out. He failed in some areas - most vividly Schwartz which I noted - and did his duty in other areas in gaining draft and salary cap capital.

Here's my deal: My thing with SB is that I am never too hard on any person who takes on an assignment that they simply/clearly aren't qualified to perform. The real 'fault' lies with the person who put 'that guy' in that position/spot to begin with.

I'll add that SB's graciousness while here, at his departure and even today paint a picture of a pretty good guy who tried to make the best of a bad situation. JMO

Agree 10000000 % ... i never blamed Sashi ... and your right ... 1000000000 % class ...

The head of this snake is extremely extremely rotten ...

Which GM made which transaction seems is pretty factual.

What are you talking about? I am starting to dislike you. You are starting to sound like a 12 year. Go play with them.

You want to talk to me, talk to me like a man. Not some trivial post in a middle of a thread

jc...

I've taken some time to consider whether Andrew Berry is going to be the kind of GM the Browns need.

First, he is young and inexperienced so there is no previous track record as GM to judge him.

Berry needs to understand that he could end up being nothing more than a figurehead as the Browns GM if he allows Haslam and Depodesta to intrude into his area of responsibility.

Being as young and inexperienced as Berry is, it's very likely that he will allow Haslam and Depo to interfere in an effort to keep his bosses happy.

If Berry allows that to happen, the Browns end up with 3 GMs but only one will be blamed if a bad personnel move is made.

Berry seems like a nice guy...but Berry will need to be strong and at times, bold enough to remind those who interfere, that he is the GM.

I haven't seen anything in Berry that reflects strength and boldness.

I wish it was just as simple as this.

Because everyone I could imagine would already "get" this, but, uhh,

People reach different universities because life's progress has brought them differently onto different courses, MIT has the words "institute of technology" in it's name because, well not because they focus on ancient botany,

So, Lord Somebody tell Jimmy Haslam that more ivy league'ers isn't helping your case dude, to try and get wins in the NFL,

It's like using gasoline as a fire fighting tool,

I'm sure the Browns will have the best, most organizied board meetings in the entire NFL, (with a cast exclusively made up of Ivy league'ers) but they won't win a flipping football game.

DawPoGund,
I'm sad, I'm sad for this, I'm really sad over here, I don't want to watch this coming season, are you kidding?

Don't need to be negative, just somebody tell the Owner before my lifetime ends, Somebody tell Jimmy sometime in the next 20 years, Tell him what a football school is.

Oh Sure, the Ivy league was football aristocracy, in the 1930's! The 1930s!

Two drinks!

I don't know how one defines a market shift, but prior to that free agency period all the hype was about how a top tier RT was going to be able to command north of $10+ million a year.. some said as much as 12 or even 15.

I guess it all depends on how much of that hype Mitch and his agent thought he could get. Sashi's offer (the first I believe) was half of the hype. So I don't necessarily blame him for fielding other offers. Hindsight says Sashi was right about the value.

j/c

I think what Jimmy has the least patience for is the BS in-fighting and egos.

Ultimately what I think Jimmy really wants is to NOT be so involved and be the kind of owner who sits back and you don't hear much from him until he steps on the 50 and hoists the Lombardi like he had a direct hand in it.

He took a back seat in the beginning under Banner and Lombardi. THEY couldn't manage the organization.

When he hired Dorsey, again he faded to the background until DORSEY proved he couldn't manage the organization.

There's 2 ways to set up your structure, both have pros and cons:

1) Linear.. top to bottom chain of command... PRO: decision making is streamlined CON: this set up is often limited by the vision provided by the top position and unless you have an exceptional individual, creativity is often limited.

2) Spread out, all parties on equal level... PRO: you exponentially increase your creativity and you have a built in check system where ideas are tested. CON: unless all parties are committed to a detailed vision, decision making can be slowed or even halted.

The assumption has been that Jimmy has created these situations where all parties are equal under him as an intent to purposefully sow division. I'd argue that is not the case and its instead because he probably believes in the second model. Just like his biggest critics accuse, Jimmy is a marketing guy right? Effective marketing strategies are based on input from several sources, and rarely from the mind of a single Visionary.

This is why true alignment is so critical.

Good, the fake tough guy route has gone horribly for us.

j/c


This is all very confusing...

Was Sashi trying to win and failed?

Or was Sashi trying to lose and succeeded?

Why are some people who say he failed also say we were trying to lose?

It was announced at a press conference that there was going to be a tear down. That the next several years were going to be very painful for fans, which was very true. Supposedly, Hue was not on board with this and fought the FO on the fact. It had become noticeable that having draft picks 12 - 22 were not conducive to building a team, just sustaining the record (especially when having 1 draft pick per round ). So the goal became, to gain higher draft picks, more draft picks, and build cap space for the purpose of team building. Sashi was trying to gain draft picks by having a losing record, and he succeeded.

That is the word. Hue was the one who bolted from the plan....but really, we don't need to be discussing Hue and Sashi...that has nothing to do with what is going on now. We have something good cooking now.

We now have a qualified football guy who embraces analytics as part of the process in Berry, Sashi did on one end but he wasn't a football guy.

Unlike Hue, we have a coach who also embraces analytics. Both had talent as a coach. Hue wasn't a head coach. It remains to be seen if Stefanski is, but at least he is aligned with the others in the building.

Then we still have Depo...as good as it gets with what he does. This isn't moneyball for one big reason...the NFL has a cap and a minimum teams can or have to spend. Baseball doesn't have that. Teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, etc can spend as much as the want. Teams like Oakland, Cincy, Cleveland can't do that. They have less money, so they have to work harder to make their money count.

Depo doesn't have to think cheap. He is simply applying what he did in baseball to help identify players who might give us the best chance for success. Maybe give us a edge.

The whole thought of moneyball doesn't even apply. NFL teams have to spend maybe 90% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 years.

I agree.

Something that I'd like to hear from Depo is this:

How does analytics differ or jibe with the use of statistics?

I have my thoughts...I've read some good takes on the matter...but I'd like to hear it from Depo's own words.

I think a lot of the same strategies overlap between baseball and football. The lack of salary cap in baseball may have necessitated the approach but the "bang for your buck" theories apply to any sport.

It is never a "cheap" thing, but as a practice, I think it will eliminate a lot of high-priced free agents, or at least place a lot more scrutiny on those types of moves.

An example this year (imo) will be TE Hunter Henry. Analytics will place high value on his skill-set and value to our team, but it may also place a cap on his contract. Since he will be the "class" of the FA market for TEs, there's a slim chance we will engage in the bidding war. This, of course, will depend on his value (and price tag) compared to other options. Analytics by itself won't rule him, or any other player, "in" or "out". It will provide the starting point in the approach because it weighs the generic risk/reward.

You said people should stop talking about Sashi. It seems that all depends on who is doing the talking and what they have to say about him.



That sounds like a you problem.



And you talked about me being unhinged?



So you are the one who talks about people with opposing opinions being unhinged and sounding like a 12 year old, and I'm the one who should start talking to you like a man?

Get a grip Peen.

I'd just like to add that Sashi never claimed or pretended to be a football guy. Probably why he didn't take the title of GM. Had he not died on the hill saving the team from Hue I would have expected that we would have brought a GM on board when it came to the build up phase.

I agree.

Sashi also told us all what he was doing and how it was going to go. He was spot on.

He also brought 9 bonafide starters (if you include Zane) and possibly more to the league from his drafts.

Sashi didn't fail. He lost out to a HC whom Haslam was told was one of the great coaches in the league by many around the NFL.

Everyone blamed Sashi but he wasn't the problem. Sashi took the blame like a man, was fired and wished us well.

I think Jimmy realizes where he made mistakes which is why I think we're back here with Depodesta, Berry, and a HC recommended to fit the "plan."

We aren't the same as 2016, but we have the same goals.

I knew you were a sharp guy. Glad to know you. Hope to see you at a game next year.

I still maintain that I think Jimmy doesn't want to be as hands on as he has been. I do think part of the problem is that he has had a tendency to shortcut the process. Which I get I suppose. If he really is the marketing guy his critics accuse him of being, it makes more sense. The process is asking him as a marketing guy to be patient while the brand took a huge hit for a couple of seasons. That has to go against every instinct of marketing to go through that. But it's necessary because all the best marketing in the world is ultimately no good without a good product.

My feeling about this weekly meeting with Jimmy has less to do with Jimmy providing his own input and more an opportunity for 3 heads to show that they are acting in concert. I suspect that a lot of the infighting we've seen over the years was due to Jimmy giving all parties too much leash and too little oversight.

I'm right there with you.

I disagree with that. It has been reported that Jimmy has played people against each other since he bought the team. He has been a major factor in the dysfunctional nature of the team. He has shown no reason to expect that he has, or will change.

Reported? Can you post those? I'd like to read them.

Inside the Cleveland Browns front office, where hope and history collide
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2579...history-collide

Then, of course, Jimma tore up his ESPN deal, because he cannot stand anyone pointing out that he is an awful and inept owner ..... and, in fact, that he is the worst owner in major sports history, (winning percentage) even worse than #2 worst, The Cavaliers own Ted Stepien.

Now that they are taking a more analytical approach to managing the team look for them to make some surprise moves. For instance, they are not going to keep both Chubb and Hunt, look for one of them to be gone, probably Hunt.

I read the article you posted and there's only one part that comes close to being evidence of him pitting people against each other. The part where he asks the position coaches if the scouts are getting them the players they wanted and asking the scouts if the coaches are developing the players they got them. It doesn't say what he then did with those answers.

Nothing.

No mention of him going in to meetings and starting arguments between the 2 sides.

Buried in the article was a sentence that said most of the former employees agreed that each cleaning house was probably the right decision at the time on it's face.

Past that there isn't anything mentioned to support this notion that Jimmy has purposefully seeks to create conflict between key employees. There were sometimes where maybe he should have drawn some lines, but not enforcing boundaries is not the same thing as being a snake and fomenting discontent.

This article DOES show a guy who has a difficult time being patient through a lengthy process but does have a genuine interest in learning. If nothing else the article actually illustrates my point about a marketing guy having to go against his instincts.

"If you're a position coach, he'll ask how you rate the talent the scouts have drafted. If you're a scout, he'll ask how the coaches are developing talent. You realize he has no true football compass and is pitting you against your peers, sometimes even your boss, but in the moment it feels like you've got the owner's ear.

"You think you're the one he trusts," says a former high-level member of Browns management. "By the time you realize that he confides in everyone, it's too late. You're gone.""

This fits with the fact that we have seen him fire 5 HC and 5 GM.

There are other examples in the article of Haslam's interfering loser behavior.

I'm not disputing that he's been a source of dysfunction. I just see clearer examples of that dysfunction being attributed to his lack of patience way more so than because he's fickle, bi-polar, or fancies himself the NFL Tina Turner sitting on her perch as she puts 2 contestants in a Thunderdome style of management.

Critics often like to point out that running a string of truck stops is not the same thing as running a pro-football organization. In some ways that statement is true, but its more false.

I've never worked for a sports organization in my entire life, but I have experiences or witnessed about 95% of the events outlined in the article you posted. TV shows like The Office and cartoon strips like Dilbert wouldn't have been so popular if workplace drama didn't transcend across industries.

They're both likely to be on team friendly contracts. If Hunt leaves, it's because he didn't hold up his side of the deal to stay on the straight and narrow if we signed him after the kicking incident. Nothing really to do with analytics. I'm guessing analytics would show that limiting carries by having multiple competent RBs extends careers and has them in better health towards the ends of long seasons.

Peer reviews are a common evaluation tool. They're generally part of 360 degree feedback systems. They're not pitting people against each other. They're designed to help people improve by providing feedback.

I suppose we'd be better off if nobody asked any questions or communicated with each other, and we did nothing to try to improve outcomes.

If people pit themselves against each other, that's problematic. It's not the questions' fault, though. The goal is to get constructive criticism. Not to try to get other people fired. "Football guys", or at least those that wear the label like it's a badge of honor, seem to have trouble with that.

What did you call it, a "360 degree feedback system"...lol.

A dose of reality is needed...these front office intrusions, such as peer reviews, do create friction between the competing groups and in Cleveland, the guy interpreting the results is 100% biased.

There is no doubt that in Cleveland, when it comes to analytics, their is a bias by guy in charge of analytics and he has a well worn path to the Boss's office and it sure seems that Haslam is more interested in analytics than he is building a winning football team...and that has done nothing but hurt the Browns on the field.

If I were the boss of the Browns, this peer review would end because it fosters friction and it creates a BrownNoser mentality within the front office. It is a waste of valuable time that should be spent on judging football talent.

Haslam created the internal division within the franchise and he doesn't seem to realize how damaging it is to the franchise. When the analytics guy has the power to get the GM fired...something is seriously wrong within the front office.

1.) Dorsey wasn't fired. He was told he could not participate in the head coach search, and he decided to quit. Dorsey could have stayed, but he botched things so badly with Freddie, that he could not be allowed the opportunity to "Flex his muscles" again.

2.) Freddie messed in in very many ways, record, play calling, a lack of discipline, not calling plays that had been worked on all week in practice. Do you honestly think that if the season would have been 8 - 8 or 9 - 6, that Freddie or Dorsey would be gone? The NFL is a results oriented organisation, to keep your jog, you produce results. The analytics guy did not get Freddie fired, Freddie got Freddie fired. Freddie was so bad that the person who "Flexed his muscles" to make him the head coach, was told he could not be involved in the search for Freddie's replacement.

As I’ve said before, Haslam isn’t going anywhere, so you have three options, as a fan: accept the reality of the situation, buy the team, or move on to another team.

Well, there is a fourth: constant bitch about the Browns not doing it the way you want.

So, there you go.

Revisionist history. If Sashi wasn't the GM somebody forgot to tell him. Here are some of his comments on being hired as the Wizards



That horrible roster sunk Sashi. Talk about those trying to avoid personal responsibility.

Those who blame the roster and not Hue still don't get it.

They were both awful at their jobs. Sashi was the defacto GM. Hue was an awful coach. Wanting to see what Hue could do with better players is just as idiotic as wanting to see what Sashi could do with a better coach. They both needed to go immediately after 1-31. We wouldn't be in the mess we're in now, Kitchens wouldn't have even been on the radar as a head coach and maybe we'd have started with Stefanski or Gregg Williams and been well on our way.

Oh I get it. They both sucked and are both gone. I'm not the one who doesn't get it.

People trying to justify an opinion after it is no longer relevant don’t get it either.

According to Sashi he was the GM. But somehow our fans think they know better.

No more than those that wanted to see what Hue could do with better players.

My degree is in business management. 360 degree feedback is a widely used term/process.

Here's a link to a PDF of a scholarly piece on Performance Management.

Performance Management PDF

360 degree feedback is mentioned at the bottom of page 15 (on the page, not the reader program) and most likely elsewhere.

Football is about more than just the football at the NFL level. Many people don't seem to understand that. It's big business and as such many business best practices are incorporated in successful franchises. Everyone involved with the team is being paid and there are limits on how much teams can spend. It's not just find the best players and everyone go out and have fun. It's a billion dollar industry where everyone is looking for an edge. You can't be stagnant and consistently win. You need alignment and honesty, not lip service and backstabbing. If you agree to a plan, you shouldn't whine about it later. Neither should you cry about past regimes for your poor decisions/results.
If you're not willing to work together to improve, you're not going to work out.

Widely used somewhere?...maybe..

Used in the NFL?....NO..

Like I said, it is a waste of time if the front office people aren't working on football.

The process would lead to internal friction and help to divide a football franchise.

I've not heard anything that would lead me into believing the Browns are doing anything like this.

Sounds like pure speculation on your part...

FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
BASEBALL IS NOT FOOTBALL

We are fans. I quoted Sashi saying he was the GM here. But in the world we live in now, even when you give people a direct quote they try to act like it means nothing.

The process only leads to friction if people can't handle constructive criticism. You don't want people that think they are perfect just the way they are in your organization.

Even in football, all the greats were constantly striving to get better. They were watching and trying to learn from other greats. Kobe was an example of a great that people in other endeavors tried to emulate and learn from.

Football, baseball, rocket science, some things carry across all organizations. "Teams" win in spite of stiff-necked neanderthals who refuse to change, not because of them.

I stand corrected then. I hadn't recalled that Sashi held the title of GM while he was here. My bad.

BTW Pit.. from the same article...

"Brown knows what that process is like, having started from the bottom with the NFL's Cleveland Browns three years ago. He laid a foundation there as GM that has helped lead to a bright future for one of the NFL's most moribund teams".

Sounds like someone thinks he did a good job...

He technically wasn't. It was also said we were going to hire a GM when Sashi was hired as executive vice president of football operations.

While the Browns did say they would hire a GM..that didn't happen. I don't know why they didn't go ahead and hire GM...

...but, Sashi handled the GM duties and likely had help from Depodesta and Haslam.

And Berry, who managed the scouting and personnel evaluation.

Sashi and Depo may have wanted to give the job to Berry then, but Haslam was concerned with the optics of hiring an inexperienced, sub-30 year old GM.

More experienced people may have been unwilling to share a building with Sashi and Depo because they'd never done things the way
the braintrust for the Browns wanted to follow.

People think all kinds of things. That's why I don't tend to post the opinions of others.

Yet according to Sashi he was. I guess we should believe you over the man who actually held the job? Yeah, that's not going to happen.

There was also a ton of debate about exactly what "GM" duties he was taking on as well. Some insinuated that he was the one selecting players based on what hepersonally wanted. Others postulated that he left the player evals and selection to the scouts and was the one who signed his name to the draft card and trade agreements because someone has to.

It's like my paycheck. The person who signs it isn't a part of the police department and is not in a position to direct or influence police related matters.

Some will go to great lengths to try and rationalize things.

j/c

I have no choice. I have to accept the Browns as they are. We have a new HC/GM/Staff. Whatever is in the past, is in the past. What I want to do is look at what may come.

We have no idea how Kevin Stefanski will be as a coach. Same as Andrew Berry, although we know him better since he was here for over 2 years. What we know, however that they are on the same page. They are both young for their position and both have been recognized for showing the potential to be good at the positions they now hold.

Having a HC and GM on the same page is huge. Especially if they get along with each other and communicate well. I know, it's the Browns, but if these guys can live up to their potential, work together for a common goal, and stay together over time, we could end up with something.

The goal is to be a champion and to compete for a championship on a regular basis.

In order for that to be achieved a regime needs to last.

First the right people need to be hired and then left to do their jobs.

It is a common complaint of all that continuity is essential. We all know the importance of that.

KS, AB, and PDepo are all in their prime. They are young but all started on their paths very early. All have advanced educations. And all have football experience.
Their experience may not be as thorough as we may like.
However, they are not unqualified. It is not like they are a drastic reach.

Aligned? That all depends on ones perception of the meaning of the word as it pertains to their jobs.

KS needs to be a good head coach. Andrew Berry a shrewd and knowledgeable GM. Paul Depo has to be effective at his role to provide useful data to Stefanski and Berry.

The end result should produce wins. That is the measure of success. If they can win then they will remain and continuity will be achieved. And that will produce the stated goals.

Simplistic? Yes it is. Difficult? Very.

As you stated: We have no choice. I support the uniform.

Seeing KC and Andy Reid achieve that goal. A beautiful sight. I am happy for them. I am a fan of Andy and I like seeing a small market team win it.

I can only dream that it will be the Browns some day and I hope Kevin Stefanski is the guy to raise the trophy.

With the internet, social media, revenue sharing, and changes in advertising, I'm not sure small market is really a thing any more.

I agree with the rest.

Just give him the benefit of the doubt. Hope he can achieve it and we are proven wrong. He is the youngest GM at 34!

Someone else posted this a few days ago and I just got around to watching it. It's really good and I recommend everyone watching it if they get the chance. It will give insight into how the team will be run and I think would even change the way a person thinks on a daily basis.

That was this guy!

I noticed how much time he spent in that speech talking about humility and being very aware of how they approached the traditionalists and in dealing with their expected reactions. Even being data driven they didn't dismiss what the traditionalists could still bring to the table.

Excellent video and insight. It's always worth listening to intelligent people speak.

Press conference alert...

Live...

Berry just said that they were tanking without saying they were tanking going in 2016.

Berry didn't put his foot in his mouth. I consider that a success.

Haslam just threw Dorsey and/or Kitchens straight under the bus.

"Silly" = Hue, Dorsey, Kitchens.

I didn't see the opening.....what did he say?

Haslam throws everyone under the bus within a year or two. Yet we never hear him say the dumpster fire is his fault.

He says that all the time. Literally.







https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...e0-448dbcde99f7

Berry is very young to be a GM and lacks experience.

That does not mean he will fail, but he will need to lean on others within the franchise to help him make decisions. Hopefully Stephanski and Berry will form a partnership that helps the franchise to make the best personnel moves to produce a winning culture.

Berry is a very young GM. He has plenty of experience. If he was 10 or 15 years older, with the same resume, you wouldn't be saying "He lacks experience"

JC

Berry seems to be worthy of the GM hire. Nothing wrong with the "fast track" if you've learned as much as he has along the way. As far as the PC, he was extremely well spoken and answered questions more completely than we've grown to expect.

I don't think there is much question about intellect at the top. Combine that with a unified approach and it's clear to me we have the right ingredients for success. There are a million variables that will determine whether that comes to pass but I'm impressed with the foundation.

I wonder where this was aimed at?

Posters on Dawgtalkers obviously.

Obviously.



I'm guessing he saw your old signature and felt the need to comment on it. So, yeah, I'm guessing you're right.

... cause u know how much he’s learned ... ... nothing more than wishful thinking on your part ...

Who did he learn form here ... was it Sashi or KJ the scout? .. one was so good at his job he’s in a different sport now and the other one’s just a bully scout .... Seems like re3al fertile learning grounds ... especially when he had the most football experience at the age of 27 during Sashi’s reign ...

Y’all equate years on a job to gaining experience ... that much is true ... some experience is WAY BETTER than others ...

Experience and age are two entirely different things...you do realize that?

Petrak:
All of our players our Browns.

What are we to make of his writing (or editing) skills? Good grief ...

If I'm drawing that much attention from the new Browns FO it appears I'm far more important than I could have ever imagined that I was. Either that or you're wrong. Hmmmm.....

No diam, he learned so much that entire year he was in Philly!

Not impossible. People go to graduate school for a year and learn a ton.

Andrew Berry will be on CBD in roughly an hour for those interested in listening.

Sarcasm is clearly lost on you. Of course no one gives you that much attention.

LOL........ I read that as the stuff they are now selling for pain.

New Browns GM Andrew Berry on why he left last year: "I left for the chance to work with a guy who I think is the best general manager in the sport, in Howie Roseman."

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1225089815181479936

Nothing is a better teacher than failure. and he witnessed a lot of failure here with the Browns...LOL

Absolutely, that's my point...... He's 32. He has plenty of experience (within the personnel side of football)

Read your post. You said he's young and lacks experience. What kind of experience are you referring to? Professional? Life? Because, professionally, his resume is strong. He's held various high up personnel positions. He's worked for multiple organizations and seen how multiple people function. He's smart. He played football, and was close to an NFL player.




My thoughts: There are things that go along with high level positions that can be difficult when you are young. There's a possibility that because of Berry's age, people who work for him might struggle with the power dynamic (and taking criticism). No different than some men who struggle working for women.

That's incorrect. You do.

So there is more that followed this comment. He added (paraphrasing) people are no longer here with ego issues, people needing credit, not working together, etc. I thought that was more damning than the above reference.

He really sucks at hiring people.

That’s the part I was talking about when I said Haslam just bus threw Kitchens and/or Dorsey.

Yeah. I thought that was pretty deliberate and obvious. He even said, "We don't want to talk about people who are no longer here, buuuuuut....."

He could also have been talking about Sashi Brown and/or Hue Jackson (in addition to Dorsey). Berry was here with all of them the first time he was here. Kitchens was RB coach the last year Berry was here.

pety...what did I say?

Quote:

Berry is very young to be a GM and lacks experience.

I'm not sure what your problem is, but my comment is very clear...referring to Berry being very young to be a GM and he lacks experience.

The only reference I made was to Berry's GM experience...Berry has something like 5 days or less experience as a GM in the NFL.

Haha. Obviously he's learned from every situation or he wouldn't have risen through the ranks as quickly as he did. But let's focus on Sashi and Dorsey, not Bill Polian...

“Andrew Berry is one of the brightest young men we ever had the pleasure of working with,” said former Colts executive and Hall of Famer Bill Polian. “He came to us very early in his career and very soon we realized he was on a fast track. I am not surprised the Browns hired him for this very important position. I assure you he has both the capacity and the will to do an outstanding job. The Browns have made, in my humble opinion, a great hire.”

He's not some scout that we just decided to elevate to GM. He's been lauded and applauded by everyone at every level, in every organization.

You can say it's wishful thinking, I say "we hold these truths to be self-evident".

Maybe you have some conspiracy theory for why he's achieved so much in such a short time span... I'll wait.

fate...Berry has just days of experience as a GM in the NFL.

He is the youngest most inexperienced GM in the NFL.

Until he actually accomplishes something, no amount of words or prase can define him. What Berry accomplishes from this point forward, will define Andrew Berry.

No crap! Never made any claim to the contrary.

Saying that he has learned a lot and learned quickly is not predicting that he will do well as a GM or ignoring his lack of experience in the position.

Love Bill Polian ... he’s been wrong before ...

Why has he risen so fast? ... it certainly wasn’t because of his accomplishments other than his year with KJ he wasn’t a part of anything good ... he was part of the group that traded for T-Rich ... *L* ...

He’s well educated and sounds like he is very smart and just doesn’t have degrees ... that would lead me to believe he interviews well ... and he very well may be very good at his job ... fact is we have no clue ...

The thief was the one that gave him his ascension to this position ... that is clearly not an indicator he will be very good and doesn’t impress me one iota .... best thing we have going for us there is the thief’s due to hit one ... *L* ...

Ive said it before ... past results don’t guarantee future performance and Berry’s a different cat then when he came here .... lets see what he does ... hopefully he’s who U and your wishful thinking think he is ...

To be fair, I dont think you HAVE to be a great talent evaluator to be a good GM though. There is a LOT more to the position than just spotting talent.

As long as you have a great SCOUTING department, that employs great talen evaluators, the real key is BEING ABLE to take their information and use it in a way to make a good pick/FA signing/Trade.

How many times have you and I both said "the draft is a crap shoot most of the time?" A lot of times it is. A lot times, you can make the right pick and the guy still bust - could be because of fit with the team, coaching not messing well with developing him, etc. I think we all would agree P. Manning would not have been P. Manning if he was a Brown.

Now, that leaves a BIG QUESTION mark on hand as to if Berry is the type of guy to listen to the BOTH football evaluators, data, and use it all constructively to make these decisions come draft time. So for those saying he is a great hire - lets at least wait to see what the dude actually does to the team before we start saying that, huh?

Again, my issue with these hires are not Stefanski himself, or Berry himself, but the STRUCTURE of which they are to report and work under. Ultimately, I believe that will be the downfall of this FO, yet again. But I am willing to take my own advice and see. I dont have another choice. The problem is, we have seen this before.

That doesn't suit their agenda. You know how it is when the mob gets together.

He could, no doubt. I tell you what... I can't wait until it's not so hard to keep all our different FO's straight...

He could have been referring to Hue/Sashi, but I doubt it. KJ is fresher in his mind, and the rumors/backstories around KJ would jive with this statement being about him. That's good enough for me, and I'm a loyal subject of KJ.

I'm looking forward to that mythical time when we finally get it right and we can all just agree that ALL the previous regimes SUCKED and the only differences among each of them is the special, individual manner in which they managed to fail.

Sounds like he was definitely referencing Hue.

Okay. I got what you're saying now. He lacks experience as an NFL General Manager.

Makes sense. Especially with the context now. Misread your post earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

I like Berry for several reasons.

He is well spoken.

He is smart.

He has a solid football background.

He is inclusive.

He is a forward thinker.

He can be a role model/mentor to young minorities. Nothing wrong with being a jock and being smart. You don't get in to Harvard, let alone graduating with a Master in 4 years without having read a few books, with keen understanding.

Kudos Mr. and Mrs. Berry. You raised your boy well.

Oil or gummy's ? lol


Just listened to his presser.. I wish this young man success..

...

I'd need CBD too, if I worked at 76 Groza.
I'd probably need it hourly.

When Berry mentioned that outside of Stefanskis wife, there is no other stronger support than him.. That spoke volumes for me.

But is it the structure that is/was wrong, or has it been the wrong people placed in to that structure? I made a post last week ab out the pros and cons of a more traditional linear structure vs. one that is more diffused. Both have merits and both have drawbacks.

Too often in a linear structure there has tended to be an ego that needed to be fed. Each level was more bolted down in their personal preferences and not very adaptable. Just think back to when we used to debate the relationship between GM and HC: should the GM get the players the HC wants, or should the HC coach whomever the GM wants? It wasn't too terribly long ago when there was talk about GM's preferring 3-4 or 4-3 defensive schemes. I think that kind of stuff is half of the whole "not my guy" roster turnover nonsense.

But since the game has evolved and 3-4 vs. 4-3 is no longer relevant, I don't see why organizational management and philosophy shouldn't have to evolve as well.

And so it appears we head in to 2020 with a diffused structure.

My biggest concern, and probably my only real concern at this time is if Stefanski's vision for this team schematically is well enough defined. And it's the same concern I had about Freddie heading in to 2019.

I think the 2 biggest weaknesses to a diffused structure are 1) if you don't have a member empowered to make time sensitive decisions and 2) it can be derailed when egos need to be fed.

Some thing to be said for Stefanski, Berry, and DePo... despite what some people around here accuse, none of them have reputations of having overriding egos. They all have reputations of being able to work with other people.

Here's how I envision this Triumverate working:

-Stefanski and Berry work on defining this team schematically, what do we want to do on offense and defense.

-Berry and DePo work on finding the players to fulfill that vision

-Stefanski and DePo work on identifying trends in other teams to exploit, and trends of our own to fix.

Now, here's another reason I'm fairly confident in this set up: look at where we are with our roster vs. 2 and 3 years ago. Back then we had needs everywhere. That kind of environment would let people develop their own priorities and that in turn would breed dysfunction and mistrust when those priorities clash. But now? I'd argue that our roster is closer to being 'complete' than it is 53 nobodies. Look at our needs: LT, RT, a TE that can block (he doesn't even have to be much better than average as long as he can occasionally catch the ball), LB, SS... obviously we have other minor areas to address as well, but in terms of priorities I have a hard time believing that these 3 won't be able to agree on a rank order.

Someone occasionally posts what looks like play sheet but has the organizations goals on it. It shows what I feel is a sound plan for a sound foundation. It leaves plenty of room for things like the HC to determine scheme. And to date, say what you will about the how player acquisition has happened, there's nothing to indicate DePo's crew has tried to be influential in determining scheme. This indicates to me that for as much input as the data guys would like to contribute, there is still a deference to the HC.

That sums it up nicely. I would add that all three work on establishing the "Browns Way" which could encompass nearly every aspect of team operations.

Then you would need THC

It's Cleveland Browns Daily moving forward.

I say we call it CleBrD and imagine Lynyrd Skynyrd playing when we use it.