DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What did you learn the most from the last regime failure?

It's not like there's any recent evidence to suggest Haslam would give a HC a 3rd year after two disastrous seasons. Oh wait, Hue Jackson!

No one should believe it. The theory is that this is the setup Haslam actually wants.

I think we should make a list of how many times it's worked and how many times it's failed.

And as has been mentioned, with Haslam, their first two years at 6-10 and 4-12 would have certainly meant they would have never made it to year three. Not here. Haslam's microwave mentality doesn't work that way. Neither does the fan base.

Why would he spend 20+ years doing what he really didn't want?

I know that I don't believe it, but IF the words coming out of Berea about internal alignment have ANY merit this time, there is at least a slightly better than 50/50 chance of them seeing a third year.


Honestly, if anyone can get Haslam to exhibit patience, I think it is the combination of DePo and Berry because they aren't afraid to tell him when things aren't right or when things are going to take a while. Add a coach that, on the surface, seems very much the same way, and I think you have a group of leadership that is confident, but not a set of walking egos, and I think Haslam will respond to that.

What are you talking about? He gave 1-31 Huebris a third season. Haslam screws up enough, you don't have to make things up.

Haslam said it in his opening presser after purchasing the Browns. "It's a marketing world."

I think we should all keep that in mind every time he opens his pie hole.

and I think that is the ONLY irrefutable thing surrounding this team.

If the Browns start to win the team will market itself.

I believe continuous turnover is not an accurate representation.

BRILLIANT TAKE ....

Its not like the talent here had anything to do with Hue’s first two years ... that QB room in year two was an embarrassment of riches ...

I remember when u used to be reasonable and i enjoyed reading u ... not sure what happened but now your all about your agenda and nothing more ... that makes me sad. ...

Sashi/hue forced the thief to fire at least one of them ... are u kidding me? .. one of them at least had to go ...

I think they would have gotten there 5 years and i firmly believe results be dammed these guys get at least 4 years ...

These are the thief’s peeps ... they’ll get plenty of time ...

Coming off a 2-14 and 5-11 record the previous 2 years then maybe but probably not. It is however a good example for him to learn from.

We all need to hope so.
While, even if given ample time, this crew may not be the answer we're all hoping for, I can guarantee you that NOBODY will be the answer when not given time.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

I simply pointed out that Haslam recently gave a coach a third year. Nothing more or less, you're looking into it too much.

I'm sorry you're sad. Cheer up!

Its just this one post ... ...

If u can’t see it ... I’m even sadder ...

I was responding to Pit saying that Haslam doesn't give people more that 2 years. Hue got a try at a third. Now, if these newbs suck as bad as his other choices, I really hope they don't get 4yrs. The problem isn't rapid firings, it's hiring the wrong people to begin with. We've had some real trash in here. None of the folks he's hired and fired have gone on to be successful in a similar role.

And Freddie got one.

j/c...

I learned that all the turmoil in Berea caused Swagger to sadly pass away...

No!

RIP Swagger. Some may make jokes, but I am sure there are folks who worked/lived with him, who will miss him dearly.

Never a good day when a beloved dog passes away.

My kids had some cool pictures taken with Swagger.

I learned that I won't be buying season tickets anymore ...especially now that they went up in price.. Not even sure I'll buy a single game ticket.

What I'd like to learn is who made the hire on Todd Haley and Todd Monken.

Wonder if it was forced. Wonder how much say both Hue and Freddie had. Both HCs had different circumstances, but all under the tenure of Dorsey.

So happy that Kevin is working through his coaching staff himself. So relieved. I'm not excited as I was last year in terms of expectations, but the puzzle pieces are aligning on the back end where we could make some noise if things are organized/structured the right way.

There are 3 other unasked questions as well ..

1.) Did Hue make it into year 3 because of Haslam, or because of Dorsey ?

2.) Why didn't the interim Head Coach (Williams), with a better record, a winning record, only get 8 games with Dorsey ?

3.) Why did Hue make it 8 games with Dorsey, then Freddie made it 16 ? Freddie was the bigger loser, considering he had the more Talented Roster.

I do not believe all of this can be passed off on Haslam. Dorsey's muscle flexing has a lot to do with those firings.

Not sure about Question 1 (although I think Haslam somewhat mentioned in a presser that Hue stayed as long as he did bc of Haslam, and Dorsey wanted him gone) and 3, but for 2.. I'll give it a shot.

Williams obvious knock is his history with #bountygate. Then you have rumblings in the locker room from players not liking him. First to come to mind is Randall.. Different year, but I know Peppers didn't care for him either.. Some of the comments Garrett made about him, you could tell he felt handcuffed in Williams scheme. Then you have the Dorsey effect.. Dorsey put Baker over team. He wanted a HC to be an offensive guy and to be in alignment with Baker. Not only that, but he wanted a guy who he could in a sense control or push over. He wasn't getting that with Williams.

Haslam, it appears, initially tied Dorsey's hands and completely wasted the 2018 season when Jimmy announced Hue would return.

"Hue Jackson will remain our coach and will return for the 2018 season but we feel it is necessary to take significant steps to strengthen our personnel department," owner Jimmy Haslam said in a statement announcing Brown's dismisal. "We have begun the process of having productive conversations regarding leadership of our football operations and will provide further updates when appropriate."

Dorsey, IMO, was vague regarding his comments about Hue Jackson returning in 2018 given this quote...

Dorsey also refused to guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.

"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2017/12/browns_john_dorsey_the_guys_th.html

Nothing has changed since The Return. The Browns are a complete $#!% show. There is no reason whatsoever to believe this year, next year, the year after that, or any year for that matter, will be any different. This team and organization is a discombobulated joke and a continual embarrassment.

QFT.

Wake me when we start winning.

The thing about belief and fandom is that you don't really need reasons.

On the other hand, I'd argue that there is every reason to expect things to be different. Not necessarily better, but different seems a safe bet.

I like a lot of what I'm seeing. This is the "easy" part, though. Having a plan is easy. Making the plan work everyday is not.

Think we're going to need an increase in the players holding each other and themselves accountable in addition to the organizational changes.

I think the #bountygate attachment is something that people assume is relevant, but I think fewer football execs actually give it a second thought. First, Gregg has no problems getting hired as a DC. Second, Sean Payton was suspended for a year over the issue as well. If he and the Saints suddenly parted ways, I doubt there's any team that needed a coach that wouldn't consider him because #bountygate.

Just saw this. Is this really a question? Are people really denying that Baker wanted Freddie as HC and that is the main reason Dorsey backed him.

I am not insulting Baker or Dorsey here.

In fact, I get what Dorsey was doing. He chose Baker number 1. He brought in a vet to help tutor him and ease him into the starting lineup. He went all out in putting talent around his chosen QB in order to help him succeed. He got rid of coaches Baker did not like and promoted/hired coaches that Baker did like.

While I don't think Baker was worth that type of investment, I certainly can't question the strategy. Draft a QB number 1 and put him in the best possible situation to succeed.

It's going to be interesting to see how the situation w/Baker unfolds this year. I think he has a chance to succeed if he gets his head straight and puts in the work. I have serious questions about Stefanski because he is another 1-year OC w/no HC experience and was passed over for gems like Shurmur and Flip in Minni. LOL.........that is such a negative indictment. Also, his WRs were calling him out in a very loud and public manner this past year. He also appears to be a "yes man." That should work well w/guys like Baker, OBJ, Landry, Hunt, and Myles. LOL

But maybe, he is the guy who can get Baker to play adequately instead of performing like the worst starting qb in the entire league, like he did under the guidance of Freddie and company.

I thought the Minni players were calling out Cousins.

Were they calling out Stefanski?

I think it was both. I'll research it if challenged, but I clearly remember Thielan's comments about how it's not good to be one dimensional.

Do you remember the first game of the year when Minni ran it on almost every play of the game? They won and it was what Zimmer wanted. They continued w/that approach and struggled a bit. That led to Theilams comments. That is my memory speaking and not factual. Again, I will look it up if someone challenges it.

With that said, I think the running emphasis was more from Zimmer than Stefanski. Hell, I know it was. So, perhaps he will be more balanced than he was in Minni and he can help Baker grow as a QB.

As a guy who played and coached, I am not feeling the leadership traits in Stef. I really don't think you need to be a great X's and O's guy in the NFL at HC. I think you need a great leader of men who can designate responsibility and inspire grown men to overachieve. I am having a hard time believing this guy will command the locker room. Of course, that is just an opinion and not based on any inside knowledge.

I agree on the leadership aspect. I think it's hard to see anything with 3 weeks on the job. He had his opening press conference but haven't seen much since. Maybe that is why you feel as you do?

Soon enough we will start hearing things out of the combine and players will start working out. We will start to see if the leadership is there or lacking.

Oddly enough, I think this is the most reasonable thing IMO you've posted lately.

Stefanski isn't the kind of guy that jumps out and grabs me either (unlike OBJ.. ). I've heard someone describe him as a "servant leader". That IS a way to go about it but to be successful it requires a number of things in the absence of being a strong personality. On the players part it will require maturity and professionalism. On the coaches end it will require clear expectations, clear consequences, and a fair enforcement of that discipline and recognition of successes.

How will he react when his authority is challenged? Clearly it remains to be seen.

Again though, I think you have a fair opinion on this.