DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry & FO Continued

I don't know who has been chewing what, but I do have to say I am glad we don't have the idiot who hired Freddie as head coach because he wanted to flex his muscles.

It's not my fault or the new decision makers fault the the old ones failed to win.


That is the bottom line. JD was given everything.
He had a multitude of picks.. He was allowed to hand pick his coach, and he failed.


How much do you want to bet he wishes he could take a do over on the coach pick?


Sorry man, "football guy" wasn't good at picking a football coach.

He had it all, was doing fine, then he made the fatal decision.
Sad. I wish JD peace. He will chew on that one a long time. Maybe until death.

We had a monstrous schedule last year. I posted the final records of the teams on another thread, and it was brutal.

We'll see how Berry does with the foundation that Dorsey delivered. We should expect big steps forward. We have a 1st, a 2nd, and 2 3rd rounders .... so according to some board "draft experts", we should expect to add 4 starter quality, impact players. I have a bad feeling about this whole series of changes, but we'll see.

I hope we do well. I don't know of anybody who expects 4 impact players with our first 4 picks.

"Football guy" didn't deliver that, yet now you expect that?

Go cry somewhere else, and it really does pain me to say that. We have been friends around here for 20 years,.

People are complaining because Dorsey missed on Corbett and Chad Thomas in 2018, and saying that's a justification for moving on from him. Corbett was a 2nd and Thomas was a 3rd.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Not sure how that applies?



Bottom line, Dorsey failed. The record tells the tale.


He had it all. He had control. He had the picks, he got to pick his coach. Jimmy gave it all to him, and he made a a few colossal blunders.

You can't miss on your HC choice as badly as he did on top of blowing the first pick of the 2nd round in Corbett.

That just isn't going to work for any owner.

I think Dorsey deserved a pass on choosing Freddie as HC. He might have needed to agree to more of a consensus type pick this time around. If that's what he couldn't live with, then I can't blame the Browns for the "divorce". But I have a feeling Haslam and DePodesta wanted Dorsey to accept a demotion beyond just sharing the next head coach hire. I think they also wanted a group approach on the roster; cuts, FA pickups, and draft choices. If that's the case, I don't blame Dorsey for opting out.

Bingo.

And that scenario would have never existed if it weren't for Haslam creating differing factions within the organization.

If Dorsey doesn't choos such an awful head coach he'd still be here..... Haslam gets as lot of blame... but Dorsey picked a dud at head coach... main reason he's gone...

jay, I like you and this is not an insult.

However, all kinds of GMs choose poor head coaches and are not fired. Also, I don't know why this board refuses to acknowledge that Baker wanted Freddie as his HC? That's not an insult towards Baker. I just think that JD was trying to do as much as possible to make his first overall draft choice successful and happy.

The board doesn't refuse to acknowledge anything bro. Most of us just choose not to blame Dorsey's quitting on Baker.

You misunderstood or are misrepresenting my point. That's okay. I'd rather not discuss things w/you anymore. The "I quit reading..." comment was the last straw.

For the rest of you............I was not "blaming" Baker. I even thought I mentioned that it was not an insult because I know how sensitive the Baker Boys can be. I was just saying that it's hard to blame Dorsey for trying to support his QB. Period.

If Dorsey went with Freddie because baker wante him he's an idiot...

I didn't want Dorsey fired.... but his two biggest decisions wer head coach (disaster) and QB (not looking great currently)

I really thought Dorsey was the right choice and would have us in the right direction... dude added a ton of talent.... but ultimately is not here and I think mainly because he bombed on head coach,,,

How are Depo, Berry, Grigson, and company who went 1 and 31 a better option than Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf, and company?

Maybe .. just maybe .. Depo, Berry, Grigson, and SASHI went 1 - 31, because the plan was to lose and gain picks. To trade down and gain picks, to even buy contracts, to gain picks. I believe they discovered that picking in the 12 - 19 position, no one was gaining any ground. That the Browns could not get better without losing and gaining multiple top 5 draft picks first. Which is exactly what happened. We got Myles, Baker and Denzel due to 1 - 31.

There is no maybe about it. That was the plan. I have never argued otherwise.

However, maybe....just maybe..........that you might want to make good decisions w/the picks you do have? Yes? No? Are you implying that drafting crappy players was "part of the plan?"

Also, do you not think that drafting good players when they were available might have been smarter?

Look man, please don't try and talk down to me like I am ignorant w/your "Maybe....just maybe" comment. I am far from ignorant.

We can have different opinions and I am good w/that. You might think Depo saying Wentz was not a top 20 qb is accurate. You might think that wanting Trubiski over Myles was smart. You might think that not drafting Mahommes number 1 was smart. You might think that passing on Watson at 12 was brilliant. You might think C. Coleman was a brilliant choice. You might think drafting a dude who player LBer in college to play FS was brilliant. You might believe trading up for Njoku was really smart. That's all cool and I won't mock you for those choices.

But dawg...........don't try and play me for the fool.

Ehhh, no I'm not. That's your new thing -- Dorsey quitting was Baker's fault. You've repeated it numerous times. You've also said you're not even a Browns fan anymore... because - Baker.

Keep spinning.

Okay...........you think I am liar. I am not going to argue w/you. I am just not going to respond to you again. Have a nice life.

Cool story. Talk to you tomorrow.

I'm not playing you for a fool Vers, I know that not all picks were good. I do know that Myles was chosen by Sashi and the boys, and I think that that talk of drafting Trubisky was subterfuge. Both the Statisticians and Dorsey missed on picks, but when the plan was to lose to acquire high draft picks, I do not think that should be held against them. To tell the truth, I'm kinda meh on Wentz, I'm still not sure he was worth #2 draft pick.

jmho

Why would a team picking 1st overall need any kind of misdirection?

I mean, seriously.

Both the Myles and Baker picks were kept top secret. Why? What does it gain the team?

Because teams have been known to give away an outrageous wealth of picks for the coveted first overall. What is to gain by telling them what you are doing?

Again, what difference does it make?

Maybe you reveal that you are considering 2 or 3 players, or maybe you disclose the player you are going to pick and panic a team into a ridiculous trade.

I just don't see anything to be gained from such top secret spycraft. Heck, not that long ago, teams had their #1 overall 1st round pick signed before the draft.

It was a way to shape the draft. It was a way to see what you could get offered, a way to see what other teams were willing to give up. If you show an interest in 2 or three players, other teams will show their plans, and who they might want, beyond the speculation of the tv talking heads. You find out who someone wants by what they may be willing to give up for them, what they offer you for a trade to your position.

Hue had running mouth and had his own personal PR Sportswriter. They had to keep Hue in the dark because he could not keep his mouth shut. It all depends on who you want and what someone is willing to give up to get what they want.

look at the Bengals .. would you be willing to trade them this years #10, this years #2, and next years #2 for Chase Young ? This is something they may want to know .. Can they turn this year's #1 pick into 3 picks, and build their team better...

Dorsey WAS given a pass on his HC choice. He wasn't fired and was asked to stay and most likely wouldn't be the final voice on the HC hire (among other things).

I also don't blame Dorsey, but this is also EXACTLY what led to his firing in Kansas City. We are better off now than had Dorsey remained. His eye for talent will be missed but all the crap will not. And Kansas City just won the super bowl. I'd say our future is bright.

j/c

Imagine if the previous regime was given the reprieve people are asking that Dorsey get.

"...the front office was responsible for 1-31, but Dorsey's team could have won more with a different head coach..."

The double standard is alive and well.

Well, we know Haslam and Dorsey failed at picking a HC. We'll see how this group's pick turns out. Couldn't be any worse than the last two.

Okay, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you.

I have seen the theory of the FO not telling Hue because he would have told the media, but he didn't do that in other drafts. He did not do that when Dorsey drafted Baker.

I think it is far more likely that guys in the FO and coaching staff were not working well together.

Where did the info about people in the front office wanting Trubisky come from? I know it was reported, but where did it come from? Somebody on the inside had to leak that info. if in fact it is true.

Hue was suspected to be loose lipped. Possibly the team told Hue about Trubisky to see if it surfaced. Teams test people in the organization to see if rumors surface in the media or elsewhere. Any organization.

In the end, we took Garrett. I doubt it had anything to do with Hue plastering pictures of Garrett around the building.

Anyway, why are we still talking about Hue and Sashi?

Berry is smart. Has a football background, unlike Sashi. He is well respected around the league and was seen as a up and coming GM candidate.

Nothing correlates between then and now.

I thought it had more to do with the pick after. IIRC, in at least one of those drafts, we had another pick soon after the first pick. It makes sense to keep teams guessing to get what you want out of that second pick.

The info is out there in a couple of places. The most reliable is from Seth Wickersham, who had inside access w/the club. He is the guy who also quoted Dorsey's "I flexed my muscles" comment that is constantly used as an indictment of Dorsey on this board.

You can't tell the media if Dorsey doesn't tell you who he's picking, either.

link

I know it's there. That is why I said I know it has been published. I am wondering where he got the info?

And I only finger pointed Hue. It could have come from Sashi. Teams do blow smoke around draft time.

Chicago was 3nd in that draft and traded up with SF to get the 2nd pick. They paid a lot to move that 1 spot...I don't recall the specifics.

Maybe we let out interest in Tribusky to see if Chicago would jump to #1? No doubt that would have meant we would have lost Garrett to SF who took Solomon Thomas after the Bears took the QB, but possibly we felt if the offer was good enough, it was worth the swap. Sitting at 3 with even more picks isn't a bad thing.

Like they say, everything has a price.

I am glad we stood pat and took Garrett.

We had the #1 pick. Had we really wanted Trubisky and thought him a true franchise guy, we would have selected him.

You don't trade out of a QB you feel is the guy. You trade up for those guys if the team sitting there doesn't need a QB.

Come on man, you know that's true.

The writer had inside access. He wrote of how Hue even put up Myle's name on office windows and how Hue said he would not support Trubisky.

I think it is obvious that Jimmy Haslam sometimes sided w/the Analytics guys and sometimes w/the coaching staff.

It's fine if you don't want to believe the evidence. I do find it funny how some things are "true" from an article and other things are made-up from the very same article.

The only "rumors" about Trubisky came out a year after the fact. If Jimmy wanted Trubisky he would have fired Hue and drafted the QB. Hue couldn't keep his mouth shut and was kept in the dark. For all we know, he may have suspected we were looking at Trub and voiced his opinion. Someone publishing an article, that doesn't even say we wanted to draft Trubisky but merely infers that it may have been true, doesn't make it fact.

We drafted Myles Garrett. That FACT is indisputable, is it not? I guess some may suspect that "Hue flexed his muscles and got what he wanted". Seems strange to assume that because Hue didn't like Trub that it means everyone else did. Even stranger when we didn't even draft the guy.

Cool, we just disagree. No problem.

I still maintain had we really though Trubisky was our guy, we would have selected him.

Teams don't pass on drafting the QB they feel is "the guy" when they have the chance. They just don't.


Myles was our guy all along. We will never know if the Bears did make a offer to us, but if so, it evidently didn't make it worth losing Garrett on the cheap.

Lets try this angle...your team needs everything. You have the first pick in the draft. You have a DE who you feel will be a Bruce Smith type and QB you feel will be...name any franchise QB who ends up HOF caliber, just like Smith was at his position. You need both.

You take the QB. It isn't even a close decision. You know that.

Believe what you will. I stated my case and arguing further would just be regurgitating our opinions.

So I win, right? Sounds like it.


Just giving you a brotherly noogie on the top of the head. I am glad you are posting again.

Just understand, even if I get ticked, I always try to maintain some respect for those who show some respect for me. You do, and I have for a long time. For me, the past counts and is hard to erase.

Some silly stuff like this isn't going to erase that.


All that matters is we start winning. That fixes everything wrong with us Browns fans.

Does it matter... It's all yesterdays news... To heck with it.

Let's see where we go from here.

I believe just after Garrett was drafted, Sashi came out in a post-draft press conference or interview and said the team knew for a couple of weeks who they were going to take. And clearly, that answer was Garrett.

I have no doubt the team considered any and all options, including Trubisky and other players/trade options. Do you know why?....because that is literally their freaking job to do so.