DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Question on Health Insurance Choice

Lately I hear “but I want to choose my health insurance!”

Well, what choices do we truly have?

It seems either we’re all stuck with varying degrees of terrible deductibles that cover medical yet barely vision or dental.

The other choice is to just not have insurance.

Am I wrong that these are truly the choices we’re stuck with? Why would we want to stay with these choices?

What are you calling terrible?

Feeling the Bern?

For those on Medicare right now we have (I'm just guessing) 70 to 80 supplement plans to chose from. You can pick and chose plans with different costs, deductibles, co pays, script coverages, dental, and vision, and you can change your plan every year if you chose to do so.

Expanded M4A will cover everything, even all the extras you have to buy now. Dental, vision, no copays, no deductibles, no additional plans needed.

I think what you're hearing is “but I want to keep my health insurance!”

That's mostly because, as of December, 156,199,800 Americans, or around 49 percent of the country's total population, receive employer-sponsored health insurance.

So here's my "Question on Health Insurance Choice", why under Bernie's plan, would we have none?

Please answer that question.

Why would you force half the countrie's population to scrap what already works, which is basically a benefit from their employer? Is it fair to take an earned benefit from people who already have it for free, and force them to be taxed to high-heaven for something similar?

THAT'S the hill Bernie will die on... For no apparent or logical reason.

Have it for free? I get insurance through my work. It’s not free. I paid a principal last year. Granted it was a small one. I then ended up in the ER. Never met my $5000 deductible, paid $3800 out of pocket, so my insurance didn’t do squat other than take my money each pay period.

Not sure where you get ‘free’ from?

You're right, "free" is bad terminology. Mine is close but I realize that it's an exception to the norm. If you had mine your visit to the ER would have been $100.

I'll just speak for myself. If I'm 100% satisfied with my healthcare insurance (I am), why would I be forced to give it up? Why would I, a satisfied customer that spends about $200 per year out of pocket, be forced to give up my employer provided healthcare and pay thousands more in taxes?

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Nurses are expensive to insure. We work around nasty stuff. Hence my insurance over the past 23 years has pretty much sucked. The exception is hospitals around here are unionized. They have good benefits. The rest of us, not so much.

Tulsa,


Premiums, co-pays, and ultimately the restrictions and hoops United States citizens have to deal with in this country.

The choice is terrible. Either no health insurance and not having to pay for bad quality, or dealing with questionable coverage with astronomical costs for full services (i.e. medical, vision, and dental)

Other nations do this better than us without the hoops.
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GM,

That sounds annoying. I wish they could streamline it better along with making it more affordable. Maybe this could get reformed in M4A become possible?

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FATE,



I'm unaware of any plan that covers all medical, all dental, and all vision without insane copays, restrictions, or deductibles.

What "works" is United States' citizens settling for sub-par coverage. People settle due to the insurance industry, business individuals in the medical field gouging prices, and the pharmaceutical industry making a racket off of the 99% of United States citizens.

I'm not sure I'd consider that "working" but carry that bag if you wish.

I'd argue citizens of this country would dump their program for full coverage in all areas, no co-pays, and no deductibles.

And guess what? It's possible.

Will insurance be "free" under Bernie's plan?

Nope, no can do! I will never vote for Bernie and I am fairly certain that most "working class" folks feel the same way.

Why are people okay paying money for terrible premiums and co-pays with restrictive catches?

Vers, I've figured for a while now that you would vote for Trump. I mean pretty much ever dem, leftie, center guy on the board that claims to dislike Trump has said they'd vote blue no matter who. But I don't hold that against you, you should vote for whoever best aligns with your values and priorities.

I just want sick people to be able to go to a Hospital and get treated when they are in obvious pain. Instead you get....."well we are waiting on a call back from your insurer to make sure you are covered." Absolutely enraging.

But the thing is... the root cause of that is because healthcare is so expensive in this country. Adding more govt bureaucrats to that whole process isn't going to magically make it cheaper.

and it being private for the past 100 years has drove competition and prices have dropped?

At this point it's virtually the same thing.

to be fair - it has been private for long? How has competition of privatized medicine worked out so far? It hasn't magically made it cheaper.

One could ask if the rise in costs has more to do with government regulations, doctor and hospital insurance costs, and the rampant litigation.

I love to watch people blame someone else for their self inflicted wounds.

What are you talking about? That's how I feel, you should vote for who you think has your best interest at heart. And that even means you Pit. I don't care that you don't like Bernie, that's your right. I might disagree with some things you say, but not your right to do so or to vote for who you want to vote for. I mean if Pete were remotely viable and Bernie the one running at 7-8%, I might even vote for him too... He would be better than Trump, but right now we're talking primaries.

The thing you don't like is me pointing out the hypocrisy and cheating going on because you feel like I'm attacking your positions when I'm not. I'm attacking the 'wrong doing', 'cheating' and 'smears'. You might be spreading some of those smears because you buy into them or think you have to to stop Bernie, but that doesn't make them any less BS.

The polls suddenly look like Biden is on a comeback before any votes have been cast, if he wins in SC it will be his first presidential primary win ever in 3 runs... EVER. He appears to be on a decline mentally, yet the establishment wants to prop him up since Bloomberg seems like a fail.

Dude, you are supporting a candidate who isn't even a Democrat and then trying to label candidates who ARE actually democrats. Do you even hear yourself?

Label?

Bloomberg is a republican with a horrible record, is that a label?

Pete has an experience, POC, and being gay problem. He has also changed positions from progressive to center on healthcare and other issues. Is that a label?

Biden, who I respect, is obviously deteriorating mentally. He was a good VP, but he's riding Obama's coattails and that won't beat Trump. Is that a label?

Amy does not excite people. She is bland and dry like vanilla flavored chalk. Is that a label?

Warren is a good candidate but playing the woman card and getting caught in small lies is killing her. Is that a label?

No those aren't labels, they are facts. Labels are calling Bernie a commie, a socialist (like a Nazi national socialist or brutal dictator), comrade, not one of us, or crazy when he is clearly none of those things.

It will cost me FAR more in taxes than my premiums and copays cost.

While I won't disagree with you I will say you have no way of knowing if this is true or not.

Naa ... history’s no indicator .. the government has always lowered cost and over provided ... no reason this won’t be the same ... our government ... both efficiently run and known to always over deliver ...

Our countries history of reducing costs and over delivering in the health care industry is just one of the many shining examples ...

Just look at how cost efficient and the quality O care has delivered and follow that up with how well Medicare is run now ... OUTSTANDING EXAMPLES of how well we our government can do it ... why wouldn’t we trust them .. nothing to base that on ...

Yup your right ... how could we ever ASSume this may not turn out well ... kinda like your ability to comprehend 0 + 0 = 0 is an unknown as well ...

0+0=0

So take any government in the world and odds are they are not as efficient as a private company running the same service. That's a fact.

Take the US Healthcare model and compare it to these not very efficient government run healthcare around the globe ... how does it compare?

- More expensive. Virtually every procedural cost associated with the US healthcare system is the significantly more expensive compared to those other government run systems.
- All those other healthcare systems are rated higher overall.
- Citizens - getting preventative care - are healthier.

The issue isn't whether the government is going to be more efficient than private healthcare - it's whether it can be cheaper and better ... oh yeah, and provide coverage for all as a basic human right. The US healthcare industry is fat and happy and makes an extreme profit.

It's funny when people ask if anyone in their right mind would want the Government to be in charge of their health .... well duh, yes, compared to a for profit Insurance Company.

For the MenZa's in the house ... which is more 10% or 19% ?

https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-is-taken-from-each-UK-worker-to-pay-for-NHS


Planned spending on the NHS for the year 2017–18 is 124.7 billion pounds.

There are 65.6 million people in the UK, so we get an average spend per person of 1900 pounds per year

However this includes young children, who have never worked, people who are currently out of work, and retired people. How do we account for them?

It is also worth noting that the NHS is funded out of general taxation. This includes VAT ( sales tax), duty on alcohol and tobacco, taxes on businesses etc, etc. This means that it isn’t just paid for by working people, but by just about everyone.

Looking at average direct taxation( income tax and National insurance) the average worker pays about 1800 pounds a year for the NHS.

The best way to measure it is actually as a percentage of GDP. In those terms (2017 figures) , the UK spends about 9% of GDP on health. The EU average is about 10%.

In the US, the government spends about 9% of GDP on health, and people/business spend about another 10%, for a total of 19%

A good read here from 2016:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42950587

You got that right! I wonder why so many Canadians come to the US to get much needed medical procedures performed? Perhaps they want to live a little longer? Ask any Canuck what they dish out in taxes. In the early to mid 90’s it was around 50%. Probably more now.

I just posted real data that shows you how much the US pays vs EU countries. smh

It's not half but it;s way less than the US. But hey - those FACTS won't jive with your predisposition so feel free to ignore them. That's a very typical Trump supporter move.

If you are judging the quality of a Nations healthcare by how many leave to get treatment in a foreign country .... the USA loses again.

https://www.insider.com/medical-tourism-americans-save-money-healthcare-2018-6

Every year, millions of Americans leave the country in order to save money on exorbitant medications and surgeries — a phenomenon called "medical tourism."

Lol. Facts don’t matter.

When did Canada become part of the EU? Just curious

My buddy moved to Bangkok after traveling there a few times to have dental work done. It was cheaper for him to go there, pay for the dental work, stay for a little vacation, then come home, than it was for him to have it done here. He did it like three times then just decided to move. Hasn’t looked back. He teaches English as a second language. He loves the country. They take great care of their people. As an expat he’s well cared for too.

You can find any fact that meets your criteria on the Internet. My fact comes from spending a lot a time working in Canada back in the 90’s and actually speaking with the people that paid these ridiculous taxes for FREE HEALTHCARE

Nice ... if I thought you'd pay attention to it I could dig up the Canadian data. but we all know that even given factual data that prove you wrong -- you will choose to believe your faux news.

https://www.cihi.ca/en/health-spending

Oh look - 61% of the USA as a comparison. (11.6% versus 19%)

No - you use the same baseline for the comparisons. It's only the whackos and Trump supporters that do what you say. And your "facts" are emotive and not based on anything other then your prejudice.

You don’t understand the message I’m trying to convey

There is only one person here lacking understanding. The same person whose 'facts' are talking to people versus empirical data.

If I said what what you just said, I would get banned! Are you the moderator lol