DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry & FO Continued

Okay. I am not really following you here when you say things like "Sashi didn't want to make such a critical decision and saddle the eventual GM with a first round QB that didn't fit his plan," but maybe I am just too tired to comprehend correctly?

There is an old rule.............if you don't have a franchise qb, you draft one that you think can be a franchise qb.

Depo said that they did not think Wentz was a top 20 qb. That was dumb. Dude took a team full of practice squad players on O this year to the playoffs. I know a lot of folks on here don't watch games, but what Wentz did this year was incredible!!!! Hell, I didn't want the Browns to draft him at #2, but I can admit I was wrong.

I also thought Watson was a bit inaccurate, but at number 12? That was a colossal mistake. I hate saying this, but thank God he got hurt in his rookie season or we would have ended up w/a lot worse draft pick.

I'm sorry............but, in my opinion........Sashi and the Analytic team were duds. They made so many poor decisions.

I have no problem w/you disagreeing w/that last statement. I'm good w/various opinions and I am not trying to be confrontational. I am just voicing my opinion that that particular group made one horrendous decision after another and we then got rid of the guys who transformed this roster into being very good for a repeat of 1 and 31.

It's like Science Fiction.

I respect your opinion, and appreciate that we can disagree without rancor.

Likewise. You could be right. I could be right. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. In my opinion, you are a good poster and I appreciate the honest debate. Take care, brother.

I'm not sure how anyone can claim Dorsey was a good GM and it was a mistake to move on from him while claiming he misfired on the overall #1 pick as well as saying the previous GM should be fired for missing on the #15 pick alone.

All these things can not be true.

Every year I see numerous posts about missing selecting this guy or missing on that guy. Hell, every team in the NFL has that complaint. Plus, it's very easy to second guess the teams pick. Heck, I remember this very board going crazy because we took Thomas instead of Peterson. A future first ballot hall of famer and we still have people questioning that pick.

That said, this is what I seen with Baker last year. After what could be assumed as a great rookie season where Freddie let Baker play to his strengths, in 2019 the Browns tried and failed to make Baker a more standard type of QB because of the weapons they had assembled. I believe that it is a huge mistake to draft a shotgun wide open offense QB and expect him to totally change his skill set at the NFL level and expect him to be successful.

Baltimore was successful last year building their offense to Jackson's strengths, not the NFL standard. KC's offense is built to Mahomes strengths and it's risks. Even Winston in TB finally had a breakout year because they built the offense to his strengths but the risks came with that aka the large amount of interceptions. Just think though what happens this year in Tampa if Winston cuts those INTs in half while still throwing for over 5,000 yds?

Baker is a high risk high reward QB. The job of the coaches is to tap that skill set while limiting the risks. You can't change the QB with a particular skill set and expect him to be successful - 2019 proved that without a doubt. Now, the Browns need some tackles to solidify the line. I'd love to see them get Perriman back to play the outside receiver spot. I think that would take some pressure off Landry and OBJ. The final piece on offense would be an upgrade at TE where I think the team is lacking. Henry from the LAC or Hooper from ATL would be a huge upgrade at the position.

This is the most important thing to watch from the Browns as they start practice. Is the Brown's offense comparable to Oklahoma's run & shoot or are the Brown's trying to make Baker into a shell of a Bress, Wentz, or Prescott. If you want that type of QB then you should scrape the project with Baker and draft that type of QB. If you want the Baker Mayfield that won the Heisman and was a national contender then build the offense to his skill set. If 2019 proved anything, the successful teams played to their QB's skill set and not to the QB standard. The Browns have invested into a high risk high reward type of player - build the team offense to his skill set and work on improving that skill set instead of changing the player. The Brown's success is dependent on developing his skill set - not changing it.

J/C:

Sashi never got to pick his HC. His FO and Hue rarely agreed on anything. As a result, we seemed to end up with a bunch of compromise picks or picks that one side or the other didn't love. They kicked the can down the road because they didn't agree on the top guys. Unfortunately, that happens when you're forced to work with someone you don't agree with/have philosophical differences with from the jump.

Dorsey pretty much did whatever he wanted. He flexed his muscles and got his guys. He brought in talent, but the overall product put on the field was a disjointed mess. There's more to the GM job than just scouting. If he was just writing scouting reports he'd probably be amazing. Lack of communication and organization were his downfall. Throw Hue and Haley together and watch them explode. Throw Freddie and Monken together and watch them explode. The "talent" has to actually fit together. Getting rid of his own players a year after drafting them because they no longer fit gives the appearance that he didn't really have a plan. "Get talent", on its own, isn't a plan.

Berry and Stefanski seem to have "picked each other" during past searches, and were put together this year. They both seem to be detail oriented and make plans. I don't think the "Get talent" part is as difficult as people make it out to be, or at least even those who are "good" at it aren't foolproof (See Corbett, Thomas, Callaway, etc.) To me the "analytics guys" were at least given a real chance this time. They have to actually show they can do the work now, but they're finally starting from what appears to be a workable, rational foundation and are putting together real plans that they might actually follow and stick to.

Prediction: Andrew Berry will be fired after just two years as GM.

Really going out on a limb there.

I'd set the line at -2000.

j/c:

Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berry, shared meals and the plan for the Cleveland Browns to win quiet

INDIANAPOLIS -- What would a Kevin Stefanski-Andrew Berry argument sound and feel like? Maybe like listening to whale sounds while reading a J. Crew catalogue?

It has been smooth sailing so far for the new coach and general manager of the Browns, as one month ago their previous years-long respectful friendship morphed into a working partnership. Since Berry’s hiring on Jan. 27, Stefanski and Berry have been part of almost daily meetings, some of them planned, others blossoming after popping into each other’s offices, as they reshape this version of the win-now Browns.

“We spend a lot of time together,” Berry said at the NFL combine on Tuesday. “On a daily basis, weekends, breakfast together. We enjoy spending time together. We have a good relationship.”

Berry might swing into Stefanski’s office for a quick question and it will turn into a 30-minute session of the coach drawing plays. Stefanski might return the favor and wind up with a half-hour Berry explanation of free agent options.

But no fights.

“Nothing of substance,” Stefanski said when I asked for any potential tiffs. “I wanted to pick up the bill (at breakfast) and he wouldn’t let me? Does that count?”

“We arm-wrestled for it,” Berry said, “so I beat him pretty soundly.”

This was the 1-2 punch in action, the show that was previously unveiled in Cleveland during hiring season now hitting the road at the combine, where Berry and Stefanski followed each other to the same interview podium Tuesday afternoon like sweater models on a runway. They are a style and personality match, though Berry claims Stefanski has the better sense of humor.

Berry watched Stefanski’s interview session Tuesday and laughed several times. Stefanski watched the profile of Berry on the TODAY show Tuesday morning and was impressed, while Berry was too self-conscious to watch it himself.

I’m writing about them hanging out together because I have little idea about what they’re doing with the roster. They’re mostly in the business of soothingly keeping secrets.

That isn’t a bad thing in the name of winning. None of this is mocking the new braintrust -- I might be admiring it. But this is a warning that these guys aren’t going to help much during the NFL silly season, of which looming free agency and planning for the draft are primary components. Mary Kay Cabot is still going to get to the bottom of everything and let you know the plans for this roster, because she always does. But Berry admitted he sounded like a broken record while non-answering multiple questions about players on Tuesday.

Why? I told Berry that both he and Stefanski were circumspect with what they were willing to say about the roster, and that was the closest we may see to an angry Berry for years. He didn’t raise his voice or lose his smile or do any of the things that would indicate anger. But he said, “I’d probably push back on that.”

The idea of Berry disagreeing with my assessment made me look up the definition of “circumspect," because now he had me thinking I didn’t know words good. He does know. He previously had said, off the top of his head, that there were 160 starting offensive linemen in the league, adding, “Someone check my math, sorry, I’m not very good there." I pulled out my cell phone and opened the calculator and did five times 32 and of course it was 160, so I told Berry that he was right, but I also told him he actually already knew that.

Because of course he knew. He and Stefanski know exactly what they’re doing. Not the details, but the shared vision. Stefanski agreed that the franchise plan was already locked in.

“We’re very clear on what we want to be," Stefanski said.

That includes Berry meeting with position coaches to get an idea of the types of players to acquire that will fit the skills each position coach desires. That includes Stefanski’s plan to watch every top offensive tackle in the draft so that if Berry drafts one at No. 10, the GM will have a clear idea on who his coach prefers. They’ll tell each other everything. But they won’t tell us.

My definition check of circumspect as “wary and unwilling to take risks” with their words turned out to be correct. And this is why they do it.

“I guess from our perspective we answer any question with what we believe is the appropriate detail," Berry said. "There is some sensitivity with strategic advantage, but maybe I’d push back on the notion that we’re too circumspect.”

Berry’s point is that no teams reveal any plans at the combine. That’s true. But there’s a lot of bait thrown in the water. Some GMs and coaches nibble. John Dorsey didn’t say much in this area either, but a year ago I left the combine with a staunch belief that the Browns were ready to go for it, and Dorsey traded for Odell Beckham Jr. weeks later. Now, who knows?

The mellifluous tones of coach and GM, in concert, can hypnotize you, and I should know, because I once was hypnotized on vacation and held my shoe over my head like it was the Lion King cub. If the Browns are keeping secrets, it’s because they’re making plans. Immediately after pushing back on circumspect, Berry was asked for the position group in this draft that’s the deepest.

I’m not going to comment on specifics,” he began, before explaining that good players exist at every position.

Tuesday’s contrast from Dorsey and Freddie Kitchens a year ago, as you know, was obvious. The Browns last year tried to win loud. Now, they’ll try to win quiet. The old 1-31 Browns front office, of which Berry was a part, didn’t say much either, and losing quiet can be difficult on fans, because misery is worse when it’s vague.

But winning quiet would be different. So no fights, but plenty of plans.

“We’ve had really productive discussions, and while it may not sound like a disagreement with one side yelling at the other,” Stefanski said, “I think we push each other to think about a question from a different angle. I’m going to try to push him, and he’s going to try to push me, but it’s just going to come from a place of mutual respect.”

A soothing approach. And maybe, a winning one.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02...-win-quiet.html

In other words .. Stefanski will not be taping pictures of Chase Young all over Haslam's office, then running to his favorite reporter complaining.

I think Browns fans should be happy that happened. But maybe not.

https://operations.nfl.com/updates/the-game/2019-big-data-bowl-winners-announced/

Article on Sterken:

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/nate-sterken/

When the analytics revolution started in other sports teams started hoarding guys like this so other teams didn't have access to their information. We should be hiring guys like this more in the future.

Did the team not have a sports science guy on staff previously?

I read that we did not.

That is insane and irresponsible.

As @MikeGarafolo first reported, Shaun Huls is being hired by the #Browns as director of high performance, a new position for the team. Spent last 7 years with the #Eagles.

@RuiterWrongFan

This is truly unbelievable. I just figured every NFL team has a sports science staff monitoring their players 24/7. Basically every MLB and NBA team has a sports science team that monitors their players on a daily basis through tracking and baseline testing. I figured that in a sport like the NFL, where the rigors are huge and health/availability is of the utmost importance, that every person would have a person like this on staff. I'm even more shocked because I figured Sashi Brown would have hired a sports science person when he was in charge.

Anyway, at least we now have a person like this in place. Hopefully it will keep players a bit more healthy and more able to contribute on the field.

At least we now have the wisdom in place to do so.

J/c:

I'm pretty sure we had someone doing those things as part of their job. Now we have someone who is entirely focused on it.

Edit: This guy's bio has a sports science tag:

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches-roster/josh-christovich

Director of high performance? Is that the void created by not re-signing Greg Robinson?

I will admit that this was my first thought. Robinson was making moves for his post-football career.

According to Peen that would have been impossible because we didn't have anyone here with the wisdom to do that before.

Read this:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ign=Twitter_atn

Wow. Good stuff.


INDIANAPOLIS -- This was not the type of rebuild Andrew Berry was thinking about after being hired as vice president of football operations and general manager of the struggling Cleveland Browns last month. Only two weeks into the job, the slender 32-year-old realized his body was going through a transformation. Clothes that used to fit snuggly suddenly had some give to them.

A wiseguy could speculate that the loss of 10 pounds was tied to the stress of trying to turn around a franchise that has not made the playoffs in nearly two decades. The truth was much simpler: Berry simply hadn't had time to work out.

"You're dealing with so many elements and things involved with the transition that you're in the office from sun up to sun down," he said this week during a break at the annual NFL Scouting Combine. "I wasn't eating well and I wasn't exercising. I was just trying to get organized with a new football operation and a new football staff on the front end. When things finally got settled, it was like, Man, I've got to go find a gym to work out or I'm going to go crazy."

The weight has begun to return, thanks to 5:15 a.m. CrossFit sessions. The question now is whether the rebuild of the Browns will be as quick or easy. History says it won't: The franchise has had only two winning seasons since returning to the league in 1999, is currently breaking in its eighth head coach and eighth general manager in the last 12 years and has not appeared in the playoffs since 2002.

Berry, the league's youngest general manager and one of only two African American general managers, knows the history well after witnessing it from the inside, serving as vice president of player personnel in Cleveland from 2016 through '18, when the Browns went 8-39-1. If there is scar tissue, it's not visible. Instead, there is genuine excitement on his face when he talks about trying to reward one of pro sport's best fan bases for its loyalty and support.

"I'm really not focused on the past or trying to differentiate myself from the past," Berry said. "I'm more focused on what we can control moving forward. My focus is daily, weekly, on the things in my job that we can execute at the highest level. History is history, and I don't think it's a fruitful use of my time to talk about things that are not in my control."

Berry, a former cornerback at Harvard who has a bachelor's degree in economics and a master's in computer science, is thoughtful and measured in his words and his actions. He speaks evenly and with conviction, preferring to rely on data and science over emotion and intuition.

His maturity and character caught the eyes of Tom Telesco a little over a decade ago, when Telesco, then a scout with the Indianapolis Colts, attended a Harvard-Holy Cross game and read a story about Berry in the program. Telesco was so impressed, he thought Berry would be a good fit with the Colts and wrote Berry's name as someone to track into the spring for a potential entry-level job, which came to fruition.

"The rest is history," said Telesco, now general manager of the Los Angeles Chargers. "None of us are surprised by his ascension."

Berry has used his first four weeks to create a culture that he believes will be conducive to success. The Browns seemingly have been searching for an identity on the personnel side and the football side since the Haslam family purchased the team in 2012. They've tried experienced and inexperienced, old-school and new-school. The result has been six head coaches and five general managers (or someone with that level of authority) during that time.

Berry has made it a priority to have everyone reading from the same page, and he believes this can only be achieved with open communication and synergy among what he calls the senior leadership: chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta, new coach Kevin Stefanski and himself. To that end, he starts each morning with a half-hour meeting with Stefanski, to discuss the things that might occur during the day.

"You want to work through everything from a football philosophy standpoint and an organizational philosophy standpoint so you don't go off-script and there's confusion," Berry said. "You want to remove all the gray, which sets a foundation in terms of how we want to build the team, how we want to play, and how we want our staffs across football operations to interact and function on a daily basis. If we don't set a firm direction and an aligned direction, then we're going to go off and not be on the same page. So building the relationships, the philosophies and the vision were early priorities before we started doing anything tactical. Once that foundation is set, it makes it easier to operate, because you now have a common framework and a common vision for any decision or any discussion that you will have."

He and Stefanski got to know each other after the 2018 season, when Berry was part of the search staff for a new Browns coach to replace Hue Jackson. Stefanski was interviewed by Cleveland then, though Freddie Kitchens was ultimately hired. Berry and Stefanski hit it off and remained in contact throughout the 2019 season, when Berry was an executive with the Eagles and Stefanski was the offensive coordinator with the Vikings. After a hyped Browns roster floundered to a 6-10 finish, Kitchens and GM John Dorsey were both let go. Stefanski was hired in January, and Berry followed not long after.

If Berry, Stefanski and DePodesta -- who also was bullish on Stefanski from those earlier interviews -- share a common trait, it's their willingness to listen and learn from each other.

"The best piece of advice I got after taking the job was from Paul, who said: 'Now you're in a position where almost every conversation you have is the other person's most important conversation of the day,' " Berry said. "I had not heard that before, but it's something that has proven to be true over the first four weeks, because if it gets to my desk, it's of importance to that person."

Lessons such as that have helped facilitate a smooth transition. Another factor working in Berry's favor is his patience. He did not seek to make dramatic changes, such as with scouts. Members of that department have been working for nearly a year using a specific type of system, so it would be foolish to make significant changes so close to this April's draft. That doesn't mean you compromise on your non-negotiables, such as how you build your draft board or conduct your meetings, but you want to limit uncertainty and confusion.

"It's easier for one person to adjust than for 25 people to adjust," Berry said.

If changes are to come in that area, they will be after the draft. It's part of the plan Berry laid out for himself, to take things one step at a time.

"You think through what to prioritize on the front end before taking the job," he said. "That doesn't make it any easier to execute, because you have a hundred things that are thrown at you that initial week. But you just try to prioritize things, whether it's the first 10 days or first 90 days -- what is the actual important stuff? You're not going to be able to do everything, and you're not going to be able to get everything up and running exactly as you want it in the first week, the first month and, certainly, the first 90 days. So it's building the relationship with coach and staff, focusing on the draft and free agency, and helping Kevin in rounding out the assistants for his coaching staff. And then when you get to post-draft, you can deal with some of the larger football operations initiatives."

By then, Berry is sure to have regained all his weight -- and more. Because he's carrying the hopes of an entire city on his shoulders.

Wait! So we didn't fire all of our scouting department like some claimed?

If Andrew Berry knows what he is doing than he would be after Brandon Aiyuk from Arizona State

That is your one take-away?

I have said this on two other threads. I like what I am hearing about Andrew Berry. Very intelligent. Very driven. Raised by great parents. Seems to be a nice guy and very level-headed. He is very impressive.

I don't know if he can draft. I believe he was a pro scout in Indy and not a college scout. The draft choices for the two first years when he the main talent evaluator were horrible. Maybe he was overruled by Sashi, Depo, or Haslam? I don't know. But, some of the decisions were horrific and really hurt this franchise.

I am rooting for the guy even if I think others in the organization are not very nice people.

No, it wasn't my only take away. I feel much as you do.

My comment was a comment like everybody makes around here once is a while...just a poke in the ribs to those who clamored on for days that our scouting department was gone.

I think you are correct. I think Berry was a pro, not college scout. It can make a difference. You have to be able to project on college players, but I don't think that will be a big problem. As a pro scout, you aren't looking at a teams top of the roster, you are looking more at back-up and practice guys, or guys who are free agents with pro experience. You have to project them as well.

Plus, he isn't really doing that. He, along with a few others is setting our draft boards, then making the final decision, trusting the information provided by those assigned to gather the information.

It's my understand that there are still scouts in house that were here when he was here and even some who were here before John arrived, so trusting the information shouldn't be a big issue.

Daryl Morey (changed basketball forever), Bill James (changed baseball forever), Sashi Brown, and moderator.

This is mind numbing stuff. What exactly is there to discuss in the off-season for 30 mins each day. Under every new hire, its always the same non-sense. Meaningless words that mean nothing. Haslam has all his scripts down for all the emplpyees to say the same thing over and over after every change

The Coleman pick never made much sense IMO. An oft-injured pick who didn’t highly produce at his position. We’ve had a lot of them, but this was as bad of a pick as any

I agree with you opinion here...but FWIW...I believe he was the highest rated WR in the draft. I know...I know...another Browns thing of being "the tallest midget".

I just did a bit of research on the Wide Receiver class of 2016.

Coleman was in the top 5 on most sites. Mayock had him 2nd. DraftWire had him 5th. Walter had him 3rd. BleacherReport had him 3rd. SBNation had him 4th.

Positives were that he was quick, tough, had big-play ability, could beat you over the top.

Negatives were that he had 17 drops in last 2 seasons, ran only 4 routes in college, injury concerns, quicker than fast, lacked explosion.

*The most surprising thing is I was looking at the various rankings and saw Higgins name pop-up further down the boards. I looked at a couple of the sites and I did not even see Ricardo Louis' name listed in the top 44 on one site and top 47 on another. Both ended on those respective spots. That is the pick I never understood and still don't. Dude was terrible!

Here is a page that contains the sites I referenced if you want to have a look-see.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=wide+reciver+rankings+in+2016+nfl+draft

He had 20 TDs in 12 games the season he came out. What more production do you want? He had 11 TDs the year before. The only game he missed his last NCAA season was a meaningless bowl game because he decided to get a sports hernia issue he'd been dealing with taken care of so he'd have time to get back to full strength for the pros.

Questioning the pick is fine. Those reasons are misguided.

Route running, attitude (it was a horrible situation, though and had been considered a positive before he got here), and fit with Kessler were the biggest issues.

Coleman ran a 4.37 at his pro day while still recovering from hernia surgery and had over a 40 inch vertical. Speed and explosion weren't ever concerns.

Drops and routes as issues, sure. His ability to gear down on things like comebacks, perhaps.

Concerns about straight up speed and explosion seem more revisionist history in an attempt to make the people that drafted him look bad.

Pro day link

Combine Profile Link

If a WR has drops issues you don't take him no matter how good he looks. We made that mistake before with Quincy Morgan and a couple of other guys I can't think of right now. We should have learned from our mistakes.

j/c:

I'm real tired of one particular poster calling me a liar. I have asked that we don't speak to one another because it always gets ugly. I'm tired of having to take the time to do further research just to prove that I am not lying. Here is the freaking quote w/a link:




I really wish the refs would step-in and put an end to this nonsense.